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Posts 172
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:00 AM

OK, please help me out and let me know if I am understanding this correctly. My dynamic price for Logos 7 Standard Gold is $57.39 and that would include the full feature set, which means I would OWN the full feature set, correct? However, if I just wanted to buy the feature set it would be $112.44 according to my dynamic price. UH? WHHHat!? So, lemme get this straight: I could buy the feature set for $112 OR I could buy an entire library for $57 but still get (basically being paid $50 to take) the feature set and OWN it? If I understand that correctly, that is a NO BRAINER!! Last question: does getting the full feature set with Gold and above only apply to the Standard base packages, or would I still get the full feature set and OWN it if I opted for, say, the Pentecostal &Charismatic Gold? Thank you all for your willingness to spend so much time in the forums and helping us old technological bafoons out!

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:07 AM

Dwayne Justice:
Last question: does getting the full feature set with Gold and above only apply to the Standard base packages, or would I still get the full feature set and OWN it if I opted for, say, the Pentecostal &Charismatic Gold?

I believe the answer to your question is that the denominational package will come with the same feature set you would get with standard gold. BUT, I would double check that with sales before you spend the money.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:16 AM

Fredc:

Dwayne Justice:
Last question: does getting the full feature set with Gold and above only apply to the Standard base packages, or would I still get the full feature set and OWN it if I opted for, say, the Pentecostal &Charismatic Gold?

I believe the answer to your question is that the denominational package will come with the same feature set you would get with standard gold. BUT, I would double check that with sales before you spend the money.

Correct. All base package tracks are paired with the same feature set products (Starter libraries with Starter Feature Set and everything else with Full Feature Set).

Posts 172
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:24 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Fredc:

Dwayne Justice:
Last question: does getting the full feature set with Gold and above only apply to the Standard base packages, or would I still get the full feature set and OWN it if I opted for, say, the Pentecostal &Charismatic Gold?

I believe the answer to your question is that the denominational package will come with the same feature set you would get with standard gold. BUT, I would double check that with sales before you spend the money.

Correct. All base package tracks are paired with the same feature set products (Starter libraries with Starter Feature Set and everything else with Full Feature Set).

Thanks, Phil. So as to the first portion of my post, am I correct my thought process? Thank you, sir.

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Posts 938
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 5:22 AM

You may have already discovered this, but the confusion about prices can be because one is already a Logos Now member. When you put the library in the cart, it doesn't include the full feature set for Logos Now members because they already have it, though they are actually leasing it.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 172
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 5:45 AM

Bill Moore:

You may have already discovered this, but the confusion about prices can be because one is already a Logos Now member. When you put the library in the cart, it doesn't include the full feature set for Logos Now members because they already have it, though they are actually leasing it.

So, even if we buy a base package that includes the feature set, we wouldn't own it simply because we are a Logos Now member? That sounds like being punished for being a member. I want to OWN my feature set (with the obvious exception of those Logos Now only features, which is the reason I would remain a member). So, if we want to OWN the feature set we have to buy the base package then separately buy the feature set? Not good business. Don't advertise that base packages come with the full features set if that isn't actually the case.

🖥 21.5" iMac; 2.7GHZ; 1TB HD🖥

💻 15" Macbook Pro Retina; 2.5GHZ i7; 16 GB; 500GB FSD💻

🎁Logos 6 Diamond; Logos 6 Anglican Diamond; Logos 6 Pentecostal & Charismatic Gold🎁

🌐Logos Now🌐

Posts 13415
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 6:03 AM

Dwayne Justice:
So, even if we buy a base package that includes the feature set, we wouldn't own it simply because we are a Logos Now member?

No, that's not what's being said. Remember, the new vocabulary is Base Package = Library + Feature Set.

What's being said is that if you are Logos Now member, the website defaults to selling you the Library (without the Feature Set). So if you were on (e.g.) the Gold page, and clicked "Add to Cart", the website adds the Library, and that's what you bought. However, you can still explicitly add the Feature Set to your cart, and if you do so, you'll then own the features.

Dwayne Justice:
Don't advertise that base packages come with the full features set if that isn't actually the case.

So Base Packages do come with the full feature set, but most Logos Now users won't have bought Base Packages.

Posts 5576
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 6:08 AM

Dwayne Justice:
OK, please help me out and let me know if I am understanding this correctly. My dynamic price for Logos 7 Standard Gold is $57.39 and that would include the full feature set, which means I would OWN the full feature set, correct?

Dwayne from what you are describing I assume you are a Logos Now Member / Subscriber and if that assumption is correct then the answer is that you are making an incorrect assumption.  You do not gain ownership of the full feature set through purchasing the standard gold for $57.39 you are purchasing a dynamically price library of books for $57.39. You only have access to full feature set of Logos 7 while you remain a Logos Now member / subscriber.  If you stop that Membership you loose access to the full Logos 7 feature set and only retain access to the Logos 6 feature set for which you have purchased ownership.

Logos have done a very poor job of putting these pages together, making it very confusing for customers and so far they have not taken on board this fact as the pages continue to be confusing and misleading.

Posts 938
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 6:09 AM

Dwayne Justice:

Bill Moore:

You may have already discovered this, but the confusion about prices can be because one is already a Logos Now member. When you put the library in the cart, it doesn't include the full feature set for Logos Now members because they already have it, though they are actually leasing it.

So, even if we buy a base package that includes the feature set, we wouldn't own it simply because we are a Logos Now member? That sounds like being punished for being a member. I want to OWN my feature set (with the obvious exception of those Logos Now only features, which is the reason I would remain a member). So, if we want to OWN the feature set we have to buy the base package then separately buy the feature set? Not good business. Don't advertise that base packages come with the full features set if that isn't actually the case.

With Logos 7, the base packages are separated into library and full feature set, so this is something new. If you buy Logos 7 Bronze as a Logos Now member, you are not charged for the full feature set. You are, however, given a discount on the full feature set if you want to purchase it and own it.

Put the library you want into the shopping cart and then go to the full feature set page that I linked above and put that into your shopping cart. That will show you how much owning the Logos 7 full feature set will cost, given the Logos Now discount.

I agree, it's an issue and a conundrum. Logos is trying to appeal to different users, those who have been around for decades as well as new ones, as well as to constraints and costs on their end. It's not easy to come up with a solution for everyone, so I empathize with their situation.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 140
Robert | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 6:56 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

...all base package tracks are paired with the same feature set products (Starter libraries with Starter Feature Set and everything else with Full Feature Set).

Phil, please confirm this for a Logos Now member, when logged in.  I think this is where the confusion is arising, since no 'pairing' happens in this case.  The base package pages do not provide a "buy both library and feature set" option for LN members. Thank you.

Grace and peace. <><

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 7:04 AM

Robert:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

...all base package tracks are paired with the same feature set products (Starter libraries with Starter Feature Set and everything else with Full Feature Set).

Phil, please confirm this for a Logos Now member, when logged in.  I think this is where the confusion is arising, since no 'pairing' happens in this case.  The base package pages do not provide a "buy both library and feature set" option for LN members. Thank you.

Grace and peace. <><

spot on.  that would be immensely helpful.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 8:15 AM

Logos Now customers receive the features as part of their subscription, and only buy and own the library. Non-Logos Now customers buy and own both the features and the library.

I think part of the confusion involves the "base package" terminology which is still in use for Logos 7.

Prior to Logos 7, you could buy a "base package" such as Gold, and it would include a particular library and a particular feature set in a single line item purchase.

This is no longer the case for Logos 7. The library and the feature set are broken out into two separate products, and you'd have to purchase two different items in your cart.

If a Logos Now customer tried to buy a Logos 7 "base package", they would only see a library added to their cart. Although the "base package" pages still list features, a LN member "has" those features (as long as they continue to subscribe), but is not "buying" those features.

Having said that, Logos Now gets you a lot of benefits for its cost. The "base package" being split into a library and feature set is something we just have to be mindful of now, when we make purchases.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 172
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 8:35 AM

If this is going to be the new Logos model, then they need to cease calling it a base package. They need to put it in big bold letters and make it VERY clear that you are only buying a library, and if you want the features you have to buy them separately. Yes, I get it, non LN members can get the "package". Fine. But why the muddy the waters? Just break into two separate purchases and be up front and obvious about it.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 8:43 AM

Dwayne Justice:
If this is going to be the new Logos model, then they need to cease calling it a base package.

The product pages said "base package" for everyone for the first 24 hours, but it's different now. Now it will say "Base Package" to non-members, and "Library" to members. Compare the big grey/blue box:

Posts 172
Dwayne Justice | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 9:03 AM

Mark Barnes:

Dwayne Justice:
If this is going to be the new Logos model, then they need to cease calling it a base package.

The product pages said "base package" for everyone for the first 24 hours, but it's different now. Now it will say "Base Package" to non-members, and "Library" to members. Compare the big grey/blue box:

It is misleading at best.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 9:55 AM

Dwayne Justice:

It is misleading at best.

I agree that it's still misleading. As one of the customers who thought they were buying a base package, but ended up buying a featureless library, it's still not clear that the features are not included with the purchase, especially since there's a very long list of features towards the bottom of the product page.

If the person isn't buying the features, but you want to keep listing them on the product page, then 

  • please update the features section to clearly say "Features not included with purchase." for LN customers.
  • please change the feature prices to $0.00, as to not mislead people into thinking that is part of the value of the library they are purchasing.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 3992
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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 10:15 AM

Mark Barnes:

The product pages said "base package" for everyone for the first 24 hours, but it's different now. Now it will say "Base Package" to non-members, and "Library" to members.

How many important things are mentioned in the grey box?  I see two:

  • 220 (things you don't own), and
  • $372.56 (the price you pay).

But FL places the burden on the customer to also understand the "nuance" of that one particular word, "library." To FL, it now means "no features included." But when a customer sees/reads "library," how are they supposed to grasp that it means the features are no longer included in their purchase?

Since the features were previously included, existing customers probably expect that, are going to gloss over that one single word, and aren't going to anticipate that the features suddenly are no longer included.

This doesn't go far enough for people who don't know what we now know. Can't it plainly state, "Features not included with purchase," to avoid any continued misunderstanding?

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 140
Robert | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 10:26 AM

PetahChristian:

I agree that it's still misleading. As one of the customers who thought they were buying a base package, but ended up buying a featureless library, it's still not clear that the features are not included with the purchase, especially since there's a very long list of features towards the bottom of the product page.

If the person isn't buying the features, but you want to keep listing them on the product page, then 

  • please update the features section to clearly say "Features not included with purchase." for LN customers.
  • please change the feature prices to $0.00, as to not mislead people into thinking that is part of the value of the library they are purchasing.

Yes, and may I add one: have an active buy both option on the base package page, even for Logos Now users. It will help many decide to buy, know what is or is not needed, and be pleased with their decisions. Thanks!

Grace and peace. <><

Posts 270
Stein Dahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 12:42 PM

So - okay - first of all I am a Logos Now subscriber. 

In other words, I purchased the Logos 5 Gold package, and then I "cross-graded" up to get all the features of Logos 6, then I purchased a Logos Now subscription - so I have all the "features" of Logos 7 - but only using the library of books I got when I purchased my Logos 5 Gold package. That's how I understand it. I think that's correct - and correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Now - what if I want to purchase and own just the feature set of Logos 7 - without adding any more books to my library at this time?

Is that possible?  And if so - how do I do that?

Posts 938
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 12:51 PM

Stein Dahl:

So - okay - first of all I am a Logos Now subscriber. 

In other words, I purchased the Logos 5 Gold package, and then I "cross-graded" up to get all the features of Logos 6, then I purchased a Logos Now subscription - so I have all the "features" of Logos 7 - but only using the library of books I got when I purchased my Logos 5 Gold package. That's how I understand it. I think that's correct - and correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Now - what if I want to purchase and own just the feature set of Logos 7 - without adding any more books to my library at this time?

Is that possible?  And if so - how do I do that?

You own all the books you have purchased, whether Logos 5 or while you have had Logos Now.

And, yes, you can buy the full feature set without buying any more books at this time.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

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