Question on Comparison of John Chrysostom Content

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Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Aug 25 2016 9:52 AM

I'm trying to compare the content and quality of translation of the homilies of John Chrysostom in the two resource sets linked below.  I own the Early Church Fathers set and am interested in evaluating whether the second resource set, Collected Homilies, would be a useful addition to my library.

I have the Fathers of the Church Series but it appears not to have all his New Testament homilies.  In a similar way, the Ancient Christian Writers set, which I do not own, does not appear to have coverage in that area.

https://www.logos.com/product/7832/early-church-fathers-special-catholic-edition

https://www.logos.com/product/52229/collected-homilies-of-st-john-chrysostom

Thoughts?

Posts 128
Russel Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 2:32 PM

Here's a comparison of part of Homily I on the Epistle to the Hebrews:

From the Nicene and Post-Nicene Father 1.14:

[1.] TRULY, “where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.” (Rom. 5:20.) This at least the blessed Paul intimates here also, in the very beginning of his Epistle to the Hebrews. For since as it was likely that afflicted, worn out by evils, and judging of things thereby, they would think themselves worse off than all other men,—he shows that herein they had rather been made partakers of greater, even very exceeding, grace; arousing the hearer at the very opening of his discourse. Wherefore he says, “God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in times past unto the fathers by the Prophets, hath at the end of the days spoken unto us by His Son.”
Why did he [Paul] not oppose “himself” to “the prophets”? Certainly, he was much greater than they, inasmuch as a greater trust was committed to him. Yet he doth not so. Why? First, to avoid speaking great things concerning himself. Secondly, because his hearers were not yet perfect. And thirdly, because he rather wished to exalt them, and to show that their superiority was great. As if he had said, What so great matter is it that He sent prophets to our fathers? For to us [He has sent] His own only-begotten Son Himself.
And well did he begin thus, “At sundry times and in divers manners,” for he points out that not even the prophets themselves saw God; nevertheless, the Son saw Him. For the expressions, “at sundry times and in divers manners” are the same as “in different ways.” “For I” (saith He) “have multiplied visions, and used similitudes by the ministry of the Prophets.” (Hos. 12:10.) Wherefore the excellency consists not in this alone, that to them indeed prophets were sent, but to us the Son; but that none of them saw God, but the Only-begotten Son saw Him. He doth not indeed at once assert this, but by what he says afterwards he establishes it, when he speaks concerning His human nature; “For to which of the Angels said He, Thou art My Son,” (ver. 5), and, “Sit thou on My right hand”? (Ver. 13.)


John Chrysostom. (1889). Homilies of St. John Chrysostom, Archbishop of Constantinople, on the Epistle to the Hebrews. In P. Schaff (Ed.), T. Keble & F. Gardiner (Trans.), Saint Chrysostom: Homilies on the Gospel of St. John and Epistle to the Hebrews (Vol. 14, p. 366). New York: Christian Literature Company.

And from the Collection of Homilies:

[1.] TRULY, where sin abounded, grace did much more abound*. This at least the blessed Paul intimates here also, in the very beginning of his Epistle to the Hebrews. For inasmuch as it was likely that they, afflicted, worn out as they had been by their evils, and judging of things thereby, would think themselves worse off than all other men,—he shews that herein they had rather been made partakers of greater grace, even very exceeding; arousing the hearer at the very opening of his discourse. Wherefore he saith, God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in times past unto the fathers by the Prophets, hath at the end of the days spoken unto us by His Son.

Why did he [Paul] not oppose himself to the prophets? Certainly, he was much greater than they, inasmuch as a greater trust was committed to him. Yet he doth not so. What could be the reason? First, to avoid speaking great things concerning himself. Secondly, because his hearers were not yet perfect. And thirdly, because he rather wished to exalt them, and to shew that their superiority was great. As if he had said, What so great matter is it that He sent prophets to our fathers? For to us [He has sent] His own only-begotten Son Himself.
And well did he begin thus, At sundry times and in divers manners, for he points out that not even the prophets themselves saw God; nevertheless, the Son saw Him. For the expressions, at sundry times and in divers manners are the same as “in different ways.” For I (saith He) have multiplied visions, and used similitudes by the ministry of the Prophets.* Wherefore the excellency consists not in this alone, that to them indeed prophets were sent, but to us the Son; but in that from among them no one saw God, but the Only-begotten Son saw Him. He doth not indeed at once assert this, but by what he saith afterwards he establishes it, when he speaks concerning His human nature; For to which of the Angels said He, Thou art My Son,* and, Sit thou on My right hand?*


S. John Chrysostom. (1877). The Homilies of S. John Chrysostom Archbishop of Constantinople on the Epistle of S. Paul the Apostle to the Hebrews (pp. 8–9). Oxford; London; Cambridge: James Parker and Co.; Rivingtons.

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Russel Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 3:01 PM

On a quick glance, the Nicene and Post-Nicene series looks to be more complete than the Collected Homilies version.  I noticed that homilies 56-58 on Matthew appear to be missing in the Collected Homilies version.

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Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 12:11 AM

Thanks for posting a brief sample.  They look nearly identical to me.  Is that your assessment of the overall collection?  (Already contained in the Early Church Fathers.)

Posts 128
Russel Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 7:57 AM

Some of the homilies appear to be the exact same versions from one resource to the other (the homilies on Matthew, for instance.)  And some of them appear to be different translations (the homilies on Philippians seem a little different).

If I had to choose between the two, I would go with the Early Church Fathers series.  It contains many, many other Fathers' writings, for one.

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