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This post has 14 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 927
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Aug 25 2016 3:41 PM

Wavering between purchasing Logos 7 full feature set or Logos Now, I've wondered what do Logos Now members like so much about LN that is not available to Logos 7 itself? I intend to join Logos Now or purchase the full feature set but not both and am seeking real world experiences.

And I'm aware of the security in owning the FFS, that one loses the feature sets back to the iteration last owned if one only subscribes to Logos Now.

So you're exclusively a Logos Now member. I'm willing to be persuaded.

Thanks much.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 1216
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 3:58 PM

The value for me with Logos Now is getting the features as they become available and not waiting for the next round of base packages. Additionally, we get a few resources each month to check out and later buy at a reduced price. While most of the resource I already own there have been a few that I did not have and it was nice to check them out. This also includes Mobile Ed. Finally, I got the early upgrade to Logos 7 without having to buy a base package or feature set. And there are some discounted resources for Logos Now members if they want to purchase them. Saying all that, I am a Logos now member for a long time, but I still will buy the features when the new base packages come out so I own them.

Posts 258
Aaron Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 4:12 PM
  • Access to latest features
  • Mobile Ed courses
  • Discounts
  • Web app
  • Product previews
  • Not having to buy the full feature set
  • Bible Browser
  • Hebrew Audio Pronunciation
  • Knowing that the subscription/membership model is where things are headed and the expectation that more benefits will be added in the future (just like Amazon has done with Prime)
Posts 56
Ralph Wood | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 4:32 PM

Hi Aaron,

You (and others) note access to Mobile Ed courses as a positive factor for subscribing to LN.  How many Mobile Ed courses have been made available during your time as a subscriber?  I seem to recall browsing the monthly resources made available to LN subscribers over the past 4 or 5 months and only recall seeing one Mobile Ed course.

Posts 58
Anthony Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 6:44 PM

I have the feature set and still have Logos Now. The web app, Bible browser, and the courses are the reason I'm sticking with Logos Now for the time being.  

I purchased the feature set just in case I cancel Logos Now (still not entirely sold on subscriptions in general so I may not renew at the end of my year).

The web app is my favorite part though.  It's handy and fast.

Posts 1081
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 7:15 PM

I've definitely enjoyed LN and have no interest in the FFS. What people don't seem to be keeping in mind (of course, I could be the one wrong here) is that LN will release some new features in 5 weeks, and then 6 weeks after that, and 6 more weeks after that--which will not be part of the L7 FFS.

For me, in LN FL under-promised and over-delivered. I really think they're generally a good job with it. It's very reasonable that they want a steady revenue stream, and they're trying to move us to an annual subscription model in just about the gentlest way possible.

I've not been able to keep up with all the features specific to Now, but these are the ones I've liked the most:

  • Systematic theology tool
  • NT use of the OT
  • Concordance tool
  • The new "Bible Browser" is really terrific.

But the following have made it totally worthwhile for me:

  • The preview resources. Some months they've been books I'm really interested in, and I've gone on a month-long reading marathon. Some are rather expensive so I wouldn't consider buying them, but I've been able to study what I've needed out of them.
  • Special discounts and offers. My first year these added up to over half of what I'd paid for Now, so really, the annual cost isn't all that much.

What I've really been disappointed with:

  • The web app: Its development has been glacially slow, it can't do all the things biblia.com does (though it does several things the latter does not), and it's buggy enough that I hardly visit it. It can be used for casual reading but is pretty useless for serious study or writing. Mostly I use it just to check out new resources I've bought but haven't downloaded to my desktop program yet.

Ironically, I initially subscribed to Now primarily for the web app. It's not met my needs (at all), but the rest of Now has been good enough that I had no hesitation renewing last month, and this month I have no regrets that I did so.

 Logos Now Subscriber -- 22/2/2018

Posts 927
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 7:37 PM

Thanks Sean, for your perspective. I'm coming around to the idea of Logos Now, and even to subscribing without owning the feature sets. The feature sets that we now know will be replaced, I suspect.

Not to disparage anyone who thinks otherwise, as obviously others do see it differently, but I'm not sure ownership of feature sets is money well spent. My view is that Faithlife will do right by longtime Logos Now members should the time arise that some are not able to continue subscribing. I just don't think they've figured out how to do it yet. Perhaps they could pass along ownership of the previous feature sets when the new one is released and someone has been a Now member during those two or three years. I don't know, but they'll think of something.

Regardless, unless I change my mind I will probably start my Now membership on Monday, and one of the primary reasons is to get off the major upgrade wagon. Whenever a new Logos number is released, I spend a lot of time drinking from the proverbial fire hydrant, trying to understand the newness of it all. With Logos Now, I will learn throughout the two years as features are developed and released to members.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 1081
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 7:51 PM

Bill Moore:
Thanks Sean, for your perspective. I'm coming around to the idea of Logos Now, and even to subscribing without owning the feature sets. The feature sets that we now know will be replaced, I suspect.

You're welcome.

I know many people want to own all the features, but I think some are not fully grasping how it's going to work. They don't want to pay $100 annually for Now, but they're willing to pay about $200 (?) for the full feature set. But, in two years they're going to have to do it again when Logos 8 comes out. Meanwhile, they'll have missed all the extra Now goodies.

I know it's a new paradigm, but technology changes. I resisted subscribing to MS Office 365 for a long time, but once I did I really regretted not doing so sooner. Subscription is a new way of doing software, it does have its downsides but also its upsides.

 Logos Now Subscriber -- 22/2/2018

Posts 927
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 8:02 PM

Sean:

I know many people want to own all the features, but I think some are not fully grasping how it's going to work. They don't want to pay $100 annually for Now, but they're willing to pay about $200 (?) for the full feature set. But, in two years they're going to have to do it again when Logos 8 comes out. Meanwhile, they'll have missed all the extra Now goodies.

I know it's a new paradigm, but technology changes. I resisted subscribing to MS Office 365 for a long time, but once I did I really regretted not doing so sooner. Subscription is a new way of doing software, it does have its downsides but also its upsides.

The argument, and it's one that I also made, is that the longer one does not have the feature sets, the higher the price of ownership rises due to dynamic pricing. While that is true, I'm not sure how much it matters. Like you said, a paradigm shift is taking place, and it's taken some time for this old dog to come around to it. I'm still having to try to persuade myself to accept it.

Indeed, technology does change. The iPhone is nine years old. I initially thought that dumb people had smart phones. I've now had an iPhone since 2011.

And though many say that Logos Now is about renting, that's only partly true. We own our libraries, and if I can no longer subscribe, I can revert to Logos 6 or search and read my books on my iPad. It won't be as efficient, but I will still own my library.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 496
Sarel Slabbert | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 8:52 PM

Bill Moore:

Sean:

I know many people want to own all the features, but I think some are not fully grasping how it's going to work. They don't want to pay $100 annually for Now, but they're willing to pay about $200 (?) for the full feature set. But, in two years they're going to have to do it again when Logos 8 comes out. Meanwhile, they'll have missed all the extra Now goodies.

I know it's a new paradigm, but technology changes. I resisted subscribing to MS Office 365 for a long time, but once I did I really regretted not doing so sooner. Subscription is a new way of doing software, it does have its downsides but also its upsides.

The argument, and it's one that I also made, is that the longer one does not have the feature sets, the higher the price of ownership rises due to dynamic pricing. While that is true, I'm not sure how much it matters. Like you said, a paradigm shift is taking place, and it's taken some time for this old dog to come around to it. I'm still having to try to persuade myself to accept it.

Indeed, technology does change. The iPhone is nine years old. I initially thought that dumb people had smart phones. I've now had an iPhone since 2011.

And though many say that Logos Now is about renting, that's only partly true. We own our libraries, and if I can no longer subscribe, I can revert to Logos 6 or search and read my books on my iPad. It won't be as efficient, but I will still own my library.

I bought FFS by getting Logos 7 Bronze. I paid about $244 with Dynamic Pricing and discounts. Two and a half years worth of Logos Now.  To make my argument simple: let's say two years. I paid $220 for the FFS, you paid $189. I paid a lot more than you, but  if you must stop subscribing, for whatever reason, you will "lose" all functionality since Logos 6. If we, for the sake of argument, keep this rhythm going for another two years. I pay, lets say $220 and you pay $189 (assuming their is no price increase and the dynamic pricing allows met to upgrade for about the same price). If you stop then, you revert back to Logos 6, but I will remain with Logos 8. In total I paid $440 over four years. You paid $378. A difference of $62 over 4 years, or $15.50 per year, or $1.29 per month. So I pay more than you do, and you do get features faster than I do (and get some I don't). But after 4 years, spending almost the same amount of money, I can step away with lot more than you. Increase this to six years and again I will pay a more than you, but by then you will lose so much if you stop for whatever reason. I would have spend $660 over six years (3 upgrades every two years). You would have spend $594 ($99 every year for six years). And yes, you do get much much more than I do during your subscription - special discounts, m.Ed courses, special features etc. But if you stop.... you lose way more than you realize. I prefer to buy. It costs more, but at least I get to keep.

Posts 1823
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 8:57 PM

Web App. (my office's pc)

Posts 927
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 9:14 PM

Sarel Slabbert:

Bill Moore:
The argument, and it's one that I also made, is that the longer one does not have the feature sets, the higher the price of ownership rises due to dynamic pricing. While that is true, I'm not sure how much it matters. Like you said, a paradigm shift is taking place, and it's taken some time for this old dog to come around to it. I'm still having to try to persuade myself to accept it.

Indeed, technology does change. The iPhone is nine years old. I initially thought that dumb people had smart phones. I've now had an iPhone since 2011.

And though many say that Logos Now is about renting, that's only partly true. We own our libraries, and if I can no longer subscribe, I can revert to Logos 6 or search and read my books on my iPad. It won't be as efficient, but I will still own my library.

I bought FFS by getting Logos 7 Bronze. I paid about $244 with Dynamic Pricing and discounts. Two and a half years worth of Logos Now.  To make my argument simple: let's say two years. I paid $220 for the FFS, you paid $189. I paid a lot more than you, but  if you must stop subscribing, for whatever reason, you will "lose" all functionality since Logos 6. If we, for the sake of argument, keep this rhythm going for another two years. I pay, lets say $220 and you pay $189 (assuming their is no price increase and the dynamic pricing allows met to upgrade for about the same price). If you stop then, you revert back to Logos 6, but I will remain with Logos 8. In total I paid $440 over four years. You paid $378. A difference of $62 over 4 years, or $15.50 per year, or $1.29 per month. So I pay more than you do, and you do get features faster than I do (and get some I don't). But after 4 years, spending almost the same amount of money, I can step away with lot more than you. Increase this to six years and again I will pay a more than you, but by then you will lose so much if you stop for whatever reason. I would have spend $660 over six years (3 upgrades every two years). You would have spend $594 ($99 every year for six years). And yes, you do get much much more than I do during your subscription - special discounts, m.Ed courses, special features etc. But if you stop.... you lose way more than you realize. I prefer to buy. It costs more, but at least I get to keep.

I think we're make similar points about continual owners of feature/data sets, Sarel, and about Logos Now and what happens if subscribing stops: "the longer one does not have [own is what I meant]] the feature sets, the higher the price of ownership rises due to dynamic pricing. I understand that and am will to accept that risk for the benefits of Logos Now.

And I may be wrong, but I really think that Faithlife will come up with an equitable way to keep longtime members of Logos Now from having to revert to the feature/data sets of several iterations ago. One suggestion, and you may have made it (too many threads are confused in my mind), is that Logos allow LN members to own the feature sets of those they have used for the full cycle. I think such a position would open up Logos Now to a flood of new members and it wouldn't really cost Logos anything.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 496
Sarel Slabbert | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 9:30 PM

Bill Moore:

And I may be wrong, but I really think that Faithlife will come up with an equitable way to keep longtime members of Logos Now from having to revert to the feature/data sets of several iterations ago. One suggestion, and you may have made it (too many threads are confused in my mind), is that Logos allow LN members to own the feature sets of those they have used for the full cycle. I think such a position would open up Logos Now to a flood of new members and it wouldn't really cost Logos anything. 

[My emphasis]

That is my real hope. When I debate for this, I am not placing any form of blame on Faithlife for their methodology. I understand their situation, but I also know mine. I am currently able to keep up to date with Logos, but I have kids going to college in a few years. This could, as an example, easily lead to me needing to make drastic changes to my budget. And although $100 do not appear to be much, when you need to save money on every front, it is a lot. So I know that my future could very soon force me to abandon upgrading Logos (or subscribing to Logos Now) for a few years. If that happens I do not want to lose "all functionality" simply because my financial situation forced me to step back. Luckily I am still able to keep up to date, so if that happens I will still keep my current functionality.

I am a very firm supporter of Logos and I have been for many decades and I will be for as long as possible. I like the software, I like the tools and resources. But I realize that my situation is going to change drastically in the future. I would like to be able to keep growing with Logos. If I must choose between spending $440 over the next 4 years, or spending $378, I would choose the $440, because I can quit for a while and still have all functionality. The irony of this situation is that Logos Now (despite the early releases and other perks) is not so much cheaper than buying, but the longer you subscribe the greater the loss will be.

Bill Moore:

And though many say that Logos Now is about renting, that's only partly true. We own our libraries, and if I can no longer subscribe, I can revert to Logos 6 or search and read my books on my iPad. It won't be as efficient, but I will still own my library.

This is true, but believe me it would not be a nice experience to have spend $378 on software and then revert back to a less functional software after four years.

Posts 927
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 9:46 PM

I don't disagree with your points, Sarel. I hope Logos comes up with something. To buy LN plus pay for ownership of FFS is overkill to me and should not have to be.

I'm 61, will be in vocational ministry for another 15 years, God-willing, and may have to later quit subscribing. Who knows? I trust Faithlife to come up with something acceptable.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 496
Sarel Slabbert | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 10:03 PM

Bill Moore:

I don't disagree with your points, Sarel. I hope Logos comes up with something. To buy LN plus pay for ownership of FFS is overkill to me and should not have to be.

I'm 61, will be in vocational ministry for another 15 years, God-willing, and may have to later quit subscribing. Who knows? I trust Faithlife to come up with something acceptable.

Wouldn't that be grand!!!!! Big Smile

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