New Payment Plan Offer Misleading

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This post has 39 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 6483
DAL | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Aug 25 2016 5:21 PM

Well according to the limited time offer, it was my understanding that we could have a payment plan of 20 months. Mine currently sits at 18; so my idea was to add an  upgrade and extend my current payment plan to 20 months - which makes perfect sense: I only extend my plan 2 more months to make it 20, Logos still will get all their money in 20 months, I don't have to give a down payment today and everybody is happy! But noooo, when I called sales they wanted to do a "stacking payment plan" and bump my current payment plan to almost $300 a month and charge me a down payment (which supposedly you wouldn't have to give one cause of the "limited time offer")! That right there is so wrong in so many levels I won't even bother to give details. 

So, no upgrade for me and no extra cash for Faithlife just because they want to pretty much have me do 2 payment plans disguised as one called "stacked payment plan." This is very disappointing to say the least. You would think that being a long time customer would mean something, but I guess not.

Thank you kindly FL!

DAL

Posts 6483
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 6:31 PM

.

Posts 352
Cynthia Tucker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 6:47 PM

Good to know. I thought I would be able to add on to my payment plan as well. I thought Mark posted something about being able to merge three payment plans into one.

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Posts 6483
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 6:56 PM

Cynthia Tucker:

Good to know. I thought I would be able to add on to my payment plan as well. I thought Mark posted something about being able to merge three payment plans into one.

Yes and I mentioned to the sales rep about what Mark said because he had said to me, "I don't know where you heard all these things" and that's when I mentioned Mark by name (sorry Mark Barnes for throwing you under the bus). Maybe he got special treatment as an added bonus for being MVP or something. Oh well, I spent up front money to get the Gold Standard upgrade along with Bronze for all packages except for Lutheran and SDA and this so called limited time offer was going to help me get the other larger upgrade, but I guess it will have to wait, because it wasn't what we thought it was.

DAL

Posts 352
Cynthia Tucker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 7:04 PM

Well, I'm sure Mark will be along to weigh in at some point (provided he survived being thrown under that bus! Smile)

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Posts 1501
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 7:04 PM

Stacked payment plan? Wow, I just checked my payment plan page under my account and I see TWO payment plans now. The rep on the phone made it sound like it was going to be rolled into one. Not only that, but I couldn't get him to do better than 11 months. I even mentioned that I did NOT want to pay the 5 dollar convenience charge twice a month. I'm going to have to call tomorrow about this.... :/

Posts 6483
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 7:07 PM

Cynthia Tucker:

Well, I'm sure Mark will be along to weigh in at some point (provided he survived being thrown under that bus! Smile)

Yep, my apologies to Mark Barnes if I misunderstood what he wrote.

DAL

Posts 6483
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 7:07 PM

Josh:

Stacked payment plan? Wow, I just checked my payment plan page under my account and I see TWO payment plans now. The rep on the phone made it sound like it was going to be rolled into one. Not only that, but I couldn't get him to do better than 11 months. I even mentioned that I did NOT want to pay the 5 dollar convenience charge twice a month. I'm going to have to call tomorrow about this.... :/

Surprise, surprise! You've been stacked lol

Posts 406
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 7:32 PM

Stacking plans has been the model for some time, as opposed to the old merged plan model. My read from the new 20 month offer was that it was ambiguous (not misleading) and therefore likely to not be an offer to revert to the old model. As a result, I'll just buy a few Bronze level packages for $20-$30 each and wait out my remaining 12 months. In the meantime I will pick up limited individual resources as needed and wait it out for L8 before making a large scale upgrade. I don't want to be on a plan by the time L8 comes around.

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 7:54 PM

Well, there is a 30 return period to get out of a deal that you misunderstood.  So, except for the disappointment, there is no long term problem that cannot be corrected / canceled.

I expected the stacked payment plans, as that has been policy for sometime, and it is a major reason that I have not made many significant purchases for a while.  I just will not stack payment plans under any circumstances.  I had only a small balance on my last purchase plan, and paid it off.  But I was surprised that I was not offered the 20 payment terms that were being advertised online.

The real damage of all this will be to Faithlife in terms of customer relations and good will.  One great thing about Logos / Faithlife is that 30 day return period, so any financial mistakes can be canceled.

Faithlife is really run by honorable people.  Some of the sales agents may have gotten overly aggressive, or not explained the payment details clearly.  However, many of them are new, and just learning the facts themselves.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 15805
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 8:20 PM

Michael Childs:
But I was surprised that I was not offered the 20 payment terms that were being advertised online.

Web site default drop down is a few months.  Larger purchase enables more months for payment plans: e.g. purchase of $ 1,858 has 18 months option for payment plan.

Dreaming of web site modification to allow payment plan merging using applicable business rules.

Michael Childs:
Faithlife is really run by honorable people.

Thankful for recent three minute phone call with Accounting to merge two payment plans with the same number of remaining months into one, which saved $ 5 per month for me.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 406
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 9:41 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Michael Childs:
Faithlife is really run by honorable people.

Thankful for recent three minute phone call with Accounting to merge two payment plans with the same number of remaining months into one, which saved $ 5 per month for me.

Keep Smiling Smile

I think we need to be careful to be clear that FL isn't "merging" plans in the old way. Calling it "stacking" is more appropriate. In your situation where the new plan and existing plan are the same length, the result would of course be seamless. However, the problem exists for folks who have a shorter existing plan who wish to add a new longer plan and extend the old plan out to match. This isn't an option any longer. I suspect that many with existing plans never got the word on this change; I never received the supposed email that went out explaining the change and only found out about it 9 months ago because I check the forums daily.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 10:57 PM

Erik:
I think we need to be careful to be clear that FL isn't "merging" plans in the old way. Calling it "stacking" is more appropriate. In your situation where the new plan and existing plan are the same length, the result would of course be seamless. However, the problem exists for folks who have a shorter existing plan who wish to add a new longer plan and extend the old plan out to match. This isn't an option any longer.

Concur "stacking" is a better term for two of more plans that have different lengths. Combining two plans with the same remaining length was seamless (and fits the new rules).

Concur being able to stretch out an existing plan for combination with a Logos 7 upgrade would be attractive.

Also noticed $ 1,800 + in shopping cart has maximum of 18 months for payments, but significantly higher purchase is needed for 19 months.  Apologies since not know what purchase amount qualifies for 20 months of payments: $ 10,587.04 had maximum of 19 months (followed by removing all from cart).

20 Nov 2015 Thread => Updates to Payment Plan Program includes link => https://www.logos.com/faq#PaymentPlans (that has been updated for Logos 7)

Payment Plans FAQ:

Can I combine multiple payment plans?

Yes. Call (800) 875–6467 and ask a representative how!

9 Dec 2015 Thread => Updates to Payment Plan Program included

Glenn Airoldi:

The changes we've made this week affect how new purchases can be combined with existing payment plans.

When adding a new purchase to an existing payment plan:

Pay 25% down at the point of sale, and consolidate the purchase balance with the existing payment plan balance into a payment plan that meets the following criteria:

    • The plan length may not exceed the greater of:
      • The number of months remaining on the longest existing payment plan
      • The number of months the new purchase qualifies for
    • The maximum term allowed will be 20 months.

To combine multiple existing payment plans and a new purchase:

Pay 25% down at the point of sale, and consolidate the purchase balance and existing payment plan balances into one payment plan that meets the following criteria:

    • The resulting monthly payment may not be less than the combined existing monthly payments.
    • The plan length may not exceed the greater of:
      • The number of months remaining on the longest existing payment plan
      • The number of months the new purchase qualifies for
    • The maximum term allowed will be 20 months.

14 Jan 2016 Thread => Update to Payment Plan Program - Changes to Down Payment Requirements changed the 25 % down payment amount to equal monthly payment.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 406
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 25 2016 11:35 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Erik:
I think we need to be careful to be clear that FL isn't "merging" plans in the old way. Calling it "stacking" is more appropriate. In your situation where the new plan and existing plan are the same length, the result would of course be seamless. However, the problem exists for folks who have a shorter existing plan who wish to add a new longer plan and extend the old plan out to match. This isn't an option any longer.

Concur "stacking" is a better term for two of more plans that have different lengths. Combining two plans with the same remaining length was seamless (and fits the new rules).

Concur being able to stretch out an existing plan for combination with a Logos 7 upgrade would be attractive.

Also noticed $ 1,800 + in shopping cart has maximum of 18 months for payments, but significantly higher purchase is needed for 19 months.  Apologies since not know what purchase amount qualifies for 20 months of payments: $ 10,587.04 had maximum of 19 months (followed by removing all from cart).

20 Nov 2015 Thread => Updates to Payment Plan Program includes link => https://www.logos.com/faq#PaymentPlans (that has been updated for Logos 7)

Payment Plans FAQ:

Can I combine multiple payment plans?

Yes. Call (800) 875–6467 and ask a representative how!

9 Dec 2015 Thread => Updates to Payment Plan Program included

Glenn Airoldi:

The changes we've made this week affect how new purchases can be combined with existing payment plans.

When adding a new purchase to an existing payment plan:

Pay 25% down at the point of sale, and consolidate the purchase balance with the existing payment plan balance into a payment plan that meets the following criteria:

    • The plan length may not exceed the greater of:
      • The number of months remaining on the longest existing payment plan
      • The number of months the new purchase qualifies for
    • The maximum term allowed will be 20 months.

To combine multiple existing payment plans and a new purchase:

Pay 25% down at the point of sale, and consolidate the purchase balance and existing payment plan balances into one payment plan that meets the following criteria:

    • The resulting monthly payment may not be less than the combined existing monthly payments.
    • The plan length may not exceed the greater of:
      • The number of months remaining on the longest existing payment plan
      • The number of months the new purchase qualifies for
    • The maximum term allowed will be 20 months.

14 Jan 2016 Thread => Update to Payment Plan Program - Changes to Down Payment Requirements changed the 25 % down payment amount to equal monthly payment.

Keep Smiling Smile

Good stuff! This should help people who are unclear about the (not so) new policy. I can understand why people get upset since everyone had grown accustomed to the previous policy. That said, FL's reasons for the change are financially sound. Personally I'm fine with it since I had begun to have uneasy feelings about the never ending payment plan.

Over time people should be able to reasonably avoid stacking by setting up payment plans that expire several months before a new Logos release (assuming that one purchases early during the release cycle). Of course this assumes that FL stays with a roughly 22-24 month development cycle. If they ever go to a 12 month development cycle, people like me who don't wish to "stack" will either need to pay outright, grow accustomed to not making significant resource upgrades immediately upon release, or choose to fall into an "every other release" pattern for significant resource upgrades. 

Posts 6483
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 1:24 AM

I see the point, but an exception could be made since mine is only 2 months that I'd be adding and they would still make money in the process; but why lose a sale for not making such a minor exception? I can wait, less money I'll have to spend if they don't want it.

DAL

Posts 13368
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 1:49 AM

DAL:
Yes and I mentioned to the sales rep about what Mark said because he had said to me, "I don't know where you heard all these things" and that's when I mentioned Mark by name (sorry Mark Barnes for throwing you under the bus). Maybe he got special treatment as an added bonus for being MVP or something.

I've never had any special treatment from Logos Sales staff, so far as I know.

My payment plan situation seems to be quite different to yours, for three reasons. (1) I added stuff to an existing plan without changing the plan's length.  (2) the plan I merged into was a brand new plan that I'd only created the previous day. (3) The total plan was only 6 months.

I think the big ones are (1) and (3). To give a fictional example: If you have an 18-month plan at $200/month, buy a $400 product and extend the plan to 20 months, then Faithlife are effectively giving you 18 months interest free credit, as they won't see any of their $400 until after 18 months. That was the big flaw in the previous system that many of us took advantage of. They've closed the door on that loophole, and it's not going to re-open.

Posts 6483
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 2:19 AM

Mark Barnes:

DAL:
Yes and I mentioned to the sales rep about what Mark said because he had said to me, "I don't know where you heard all these things" and that's when I mentioned Mark by name (sorry Mark Barnes for throwing you under the bus). Maybe he got special treatment as an added bonus for being MVP or something.

I've never had any special treatment from Logos Sales staff, so far as I know.

My payment plan situation seems to be quite different to yours, for three reasons. (1) I added stuff to an existing plan without changing the plan's length.  (2) the plan I merged into was a brand new plan that I'd only created the previous day. (3) The total plan was only 6 months.

I think the big ones are (1) and (3). To give a fictional example: If you have an 18-month plan at $200/month, buy a $400 product and extend the plan to 20 months, then Faithlife are effectively giving you 18 months interest free credit, as they won't see any of their $400 until after 18 months. That was the big flaw in the previous system that many of us took advantage of. They've closed the door on that loophole, and it's not going to re-open.

I think the problem was the statement about "longer paymen plan, lower monthly payments," but they never specify anything. Lack of communication skills, but hey, it's fine. No worries, they're a business so it's understandable.

Posts 3267
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 7:44 AM

Yeah I ran into that issue too.  When I spoke with sales I was quoted a great payment plan but it was lower than my current and then I looked more closely and it was some odd stacking plan option which just seems dumb to me.  So when I asked to combine my plans I lost the benefits of the Logos 7 payment plan model and had to pay a large downpayment with a payment plan on a much shorter schedule... I felt it to be misleading but hey Logos got their money and I got my books so all is good I guess

Posts 6483
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 8:10 AM

Mattillo:

Yeah I ran into that issue too.  When I spoke with sales I was quoted a great payment plan but it was lower than my current and then I looked more closely and it was some odd stacking plan option which just seems dumb to me.  So when I asked to combine my plans I lost the benefits of the Logos 7 payment plan model and had to pay a large downpayment with a payment plan on a much shorter schedule... I felt it to be misleading but hey Logos got their money and I got my books so all is good I guess

I found a new cheaper way to get it --- Credit Card! For example, if the rate was 18% APR for 12 months on a purchase of $706 then my monthly payments would be $64.73, but I don't really have to give that amount every month if I cannot make it, say, this month, because I could give less (i.e. Minimum payment or a little extra). Plus I don't get charged to make a payment.

With Logos if my purchase is $706 add $60 in "administration fees" ($5x12)...that would be $766 divided by 12 months = $63.83 Almost the same amount per month as the credit card, except I'm not bound to dish out $60 something dollars every month, where as with Logos that $60 something WILL come out of my account no matter what.

I'm not saying Logos is charging me almost 18% interest to make a $706 purchase, but it sure feels that way with the so called "administration fee." Again, I'm not saying they are charging interests just because it works out that way with my particular purchase. I believe the $5 "ad. Fee" is great, but only on way larger purchases than mine. 

For me it'll be even cheaper since my other credit card has a 0% APR promotion for 12 months right now hehehe so that means Zero interest and Zero administration fee.

DAL

Posts 1501
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 11:09 PM

Josh:

Stacked payment plan? Wow, I just checked my payment plan page under my account and I see TWO payment plans now. The rep on the phone made it sound like it was going to be rolled into one. Not only that, but I couldn't get him to do better than 11 months. I even mentioned that I did NOT want to pay the 5 dollar convenience charge twice a month. I'm going to have to call tomorrow about this.... :/

Faithlife reached out to me and corrected this error. I didn't even have to call - they saw my post. I have to say, I am thankful for their willingness to respond to my concerns with this matter.

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