1st Edition/2nd Edition Linking Issues

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Andrew Zoll | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2016 12:21 PM

I have IVP's Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels 2nd Edition. It's really a great resource. My only problem is that generally, when other scholarship within Logos links to it, it links to the first edition (also available from Faithlife for $54). I don't see the necessity of purchasing the same resource multiple times, and so I have a few questions:

  • Is this an intended function, or should resources link to whichever version one has in their library?

  • If this is the intended function, is there some sort of steep discount for those who own the 2nd edition to purchase the first edition as well (which would then beg the question of the availability of a "text comparison tool" to see what changes were made between versions)?

  • Why does Logos sell both editions?

Thanks for the help!

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 12:32 PM

Well, in all fairness, the 2nd edition is a different book.  It shares much of the same information, but links to the first edition may no longer show up in the same place in the second edition.  Some information has been added, and some has been taken out, so it is technically a different resource.  

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 12:34 PM

Here is a link from the publisher which explains the revisions.

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Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 1:28 PM

I'm with you... the few MobEd courses I've taken always link to the first version.  I wish there was a way to link to the second version where the same or similar article exists or at least some way of finding what article they are referring to. I haven't figured it out yet

Posts 177
Andrew Zoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 2:20 PM

Joseph Turner:

Well, in all fairness, the 2nd edition is a different book.  It shares much of the same information, but links to the first edition may no longer show up in the same place in the second edition.  Some information has been added, and some has been taken out, so it is technically a different resource.  

Certainly, I do understand this, but it would be nice not to have to purchase two different editions of the same resource, especially when the issue manifests itself like this:

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 3:19 PM

Andrew Zoll:
it would be nice not to have to purchase two different editions of the same resource, especially when the issue manifests itself like this:

but it doesn't. In fact, I looked in vain for a different sort order for the requirements section, that resembles real link numbers instead of the rather meaningless alphabet order. FWIW, my course plan template looks like this:

What does t tell us - You lack half the resources that I do? Revised editions is an issue? Nope.

Follow the course group and download the real deal: https://faithlife.com/nt344/documents/9314 - in Excel.

Here you will find the number of links per resource, differentiated into the two different levels of "mandatoriness" - which gives the relevance

You own all of the required ("suggested") reading, I lack three of the four most-linked required resources. Even including the "see also" stuff, I own a meager third of the linked material, you own 88%, so there's good reason to be cool about it.

DJG comes up in whooping two instances (see the inline search to filter out the links):

 

I own both editions of DJG, so I could check out the two short paragraphs (it really seems you are not missing much of the overall course content here).

Digging deeper into this show us why Faithlife couldn't and shouldn't just simply link both editions: There is no 1:1 relationship of the linked content, so that you could find the same paragraph in both editions (zero results for the titles in my screenshot). There is a slightly reworded version of the smaller one ( "Typology 4.2" exists at roughly the same position), since C.A. Evan's article has 'only' been updated - in fact it now shows both him and L. Novakovic aus authors. However, there is no "Ehtics of Jesus 5.4" since the former article by L.D. Hurst has been completely rewritten by Scot McKnight in the revised edition.

Hope this helps a bit.

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Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 4:35 PM

NB.Mick:
Follow the course group and download the real deal: https://faithlife.com/nt344/documents/9314 - in Excel.

How exactly do you find "the real deal" for a course and download it into excel.

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Edgar Iraheta | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 6:34 PM

I have the same problem.

Posts 177
Andrew Zoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 6:56 PM

NB.Mick:

Andrew Zoll:
it would be nice not to have to purchase two different editions of the same resource, especially when the issue manifests itself like this:

but it doesn't. In fact, I looked in vain for a different sort order for the requirements section, that resembles real link numbers instead of the rather meaningless alphabet order. FWIW, my course plan template looks like this:

My point was about the frustration of owning the resource titled Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels and the fact that the MobileEd courses and much recent scholarship links to an earlier edition of it, rather than the one I was sold as part of the package I have now. What percentage of the resources I can read in a given course is neither here nor there to me (though if I'm going to do any course, I prefer to read everything). 

My only frustration is that I have to purchase two resources to get the full value out of the resource of the same title. I was just hoping that if I'd have to do that (since so much of theirs links to it, not the newer edition [i.e. FSB and many MobileEd courses]), I'd be able to get some sort of discount, or even exchange my DJG2ed for DJG1ed.

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Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 6:59 PM

I wish djg would go on sale but I haven't seen it on sale yet

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 7:03 PM

Andrew Zoll:

Joseph Turner:

Well, in all fairness, the 2nd edition is a different book.  It shares much of the same information, but links to the first edition may no longer show up in the same place in the second edition.  Some information has been added, and some has been taken out, so it is technically a different resource.  

Certainly, I do understand this, but it would be nice not to have to purchase two different editions of the same resource, especially when the issue manifests itself like this:

I certainly understand your frustration, but again, you see it as one resource in two editions (which is of course what it is called), and I look at it as two totally different resources, which is what it is in practice.

The biggest place that this has always bothered me is in places where there are references to BAGD (as opposed to BDAG), but they have discontinued BAGD altogether, so there is no way to get the resource to make those links work.  I was able to find an old L2 set that contained BAGD, so that was eventually sorted out for me.  In the current case, at least both volumes are still available on the website.

I am not saying that you are being unreasonable; I am simply explaining the reasoning.  I feel your pain! 

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Andrew Zoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 26 2016 7:16 PM

Joseph Turner:

The biggest place that this has always bothered me is in places where there are references to BAGD (as opposed to BDAG), but they have discontinued BAGD altogether, so there is no way to get the resource to make those links work.  I was able to find an old L2 set that contained BAGD, so that was eventually sorted out for me.  In the current case, at least both volumes are still available on the website.

I am not saying that you are being unreasonable; I am simply explaining the reasoning.  I feel your pain! 

I've seen a few people with the BAGD/BDAG issue. I haven't run into it yet. I'm just happy to have BDAG right now. I'm sure it will become a frustration the older I get and the more I study and read. This is my pain point right now- not that it's all that painful. I'm very grateful for the work of Faithlife in making such a powerful Bible study software, without which, my sermons would be lacking the depth that they currently enjoy. 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 1:03 AM

Damian McGrath:

NB.Mick:
Follow the course group and download the real deal: https://faithlife.com/nt344/documents/9314 - in Excel.

How exactly do you find "the real deal" for a course and download it into excel.

All Mobile.Ed courses have a faithlife group associated with them, which you could look for at faithlife.com but which is most conveniently linked from the Syllabus page in the course:

 

when you join (actually now: follow) the group, you see the documents tab in the group's page on faithlife.com - note that prior to joining/following, the documents tab is not visible

 

There you'll find at least two documents

  • the Logos Notes document which the Syllabus talked about (here at the bottom: NT344 - Readings) which will highlight the Reading portions for you if you get yourself a copy of it  
  • the MS Excel spreadsheet document giving the details about resources linked in the course (here at the top: NT344 Resources Linked, marked with the red box)  

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GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 2:49 AM

[

Andrew Zoll:

I've seen a few people with the BAGD/BDAG issue. I haven't run into it yet. I'm just happy to have BDAG right now. I'm sure it will become a frustration the older I get and the more I study and read. This is my pain point right now- not that it's all that painful. I'm very grateful for the work of Faithlife in making such a powerful Bible study software, without which, my sermons would be lacking the depth that they currently enjoy. 

You probably won't, because most current scholarship refers to BDAG: the number of references to BAGD will decline over time, and I suspect the same applies to the first edition of DJG. The second edition was, as others have pointed out, a significant revision: whereas new editions of such things often simply update bibliographies and add in a few new developments, I think the 2nd Edition was a fairly comprehensive redo of the original work. 

From memory, I think others have asked for discounted copies of the edition that they don't own, and the response has been that this isn't what would happen with a paper edition. If you've got the second edition, I wouldn't recommend getting the first just to look up course references: I'd try to find them in the second edition, which would be slightly more frustrating than just clicking a link, but in the old days you'd have had to get the book off the shelf, walk across the room...... Some of us still remember that. 


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Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 4:08 AM

I already requested multi-cross-referncing in usevoice some time ago.

https://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-6/suggestions/12430524-multi-resource-cross-referencing

If you find it a useful feature, please vote it up.

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Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 6:34 PM

NB.Mick:
There you'll find at least two documents

Got it now. Thank you.

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