Help: Finding all entities in John

I want to find all places in John: cities, town, regions, rivers, lakes, etc. I'm hoping that <Place> entities in the book would reflect that information.

First I tried a Bible search for John in the ESV with syntax: <Place *>. That churned for several minutes. Unfortunately it came back with all instances of the literal word "place" followed by whatever the next word was. If I didn't have the <> around the phrase, I'd understand why it did that. And if wildcard entity searches aren't supported, I'd understand not getting any results. But I'm not sure why I got the results I did, or why it took so long to give me those results.

Then I tried Bible Browser. First, I filtered to John. "Places" is a top-level filter, but unfortunately I can't select all places as a filter. So that didn't work out, either.

Two questions, then:

1) How do I find the results I want, irrespective of tool or technique?

2) Does anyone else think that it would be useful for Bible Browser to support what I tried, i.e. let me pick "Places" as the filter and Bible Browser filter down results to all verses that reference a place, no matter which particular place it happens to be?

Thanks much,

Donnie

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James Taylor

Concordance tool, limit passages to John, then filter by the Entity:Place

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

I want to find all places in John: cities, town, regions, rivers, lakes, etc.

Louw-Nida Semantic Domain 93 has Names of Persons (1-388) and Places (389-615) so can do a Bible Search for Names of Places in John:

<Louw Nida 93.389–93.615>

Keep Smiling [:)]

Veli Voipio

Louw-Nida Semantic Domain 93 has Names of Persons (1-388) and Places (389-615) so can do a Bible Search for Names of Places in John:

Selecting the analysis view from the top right allows you to sort by result or by any column as needed

Dave Hooton

Concordance tool, limit passages to John, then filter by the Entity:Place

Concordance does not include Jerusalem, Jordan, Bethany, Bethsaida, Nazareth (all in Jn 1), & Cana (in Jn 2) and others.

It also fails by including referents that are verbs, adverbs, pronouns.

Dave Hooton

Louw-Nida Semantic Domain 93 has Names of Persons (1-388) and Places (389-615) so can do a Bible Search for Names of Places in John:

<Louw Nida 93.389–93.615>

This is more accurate, but omits Israel (93.182) and includes adjectives like Judean.

(<Louw Nida 93.389–93.615>, <LN 93.182>) ANDEQUALS <LogosMorphGr ~ N????> is better, and helps diagnose where Concordance omits places.

John Fidel

Cities needs to be selected to to get the additional ones that Dave mentioned. I don't think you can select both places and cities in the Concordance Tool. Another approach is the Bible Browser (Logos Now)

Dave Hooton

Cities needs to be selected to to get the additional ones that Dave mentioned. I don't think you can select both places and cities in the Concordance Tool.

It is misleading because they all have the <Place .....> tag. 'Place' should be renamed

Donnie Hale

Cities needs to be selected to to get the additional ones that Dave mentioned. I don't think you can select both places and cities in the Concordance Tool. Another approach is the Bible Browser (Logos Now)

That's the approach I tried. If you look in your breadcrumb, the only filter is "John." There's no way to add a filter "All Places," which I think is a shortcoming.

Thanks for replying,

Donnie

Donnie Hale

Should I take it from your reply that there is no way to do a wildcard search using the <Place> syntax, e.g. <Place *>?

Thanks for replying,

Donnie

Donnie Hale

Concordance tool, limit passages to John, then filter by the Entity:Place

This is the closest I've seen to a straightforward way to do this. I wasn't aware of this capability. As pointed out by others, apparently "cities" are not "places." But this might be good enough for now.

Thank you for replying,

Donnie

James Taylor

As pointed out by others, apparently "cities" are not "places."

Yes, maybe this has to be a two step-er at least in the concordance tool, but the Louw-Nida seach is a good approach too. Thanks for the learning experience.

John Brumett

They should allow us to choose the top category such as all people or all places or all the women in the Bible and then allow us to create a visual filter.

Todd Phillips

Concordance tool, limit passages to John, then filter by the Entity:Place

This is the closest I've seen to a straightforward way to do this. I wasn't aware of this capability. As pointed out by others, apparently "cities" are not "places." But this might be good enough for now.

Thank you for replying,

Donnie

Also, curiously, "Any Place" is not just any place, but any unnamed place.

John Brumett

I get the same type of thing when I do a search for the places Paul went <Place Cities Paul went> I know you have to put these generic hits into some kind of category but it tends to be confusing for the person searching. If they allowed to search for the very top category then allot of more powerful searches could be done such as all the cities or places Jesus visited and then preformed a miracle.

Schumitinu

Try the Explorer tool. It covers it all!

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

Louw-Nida Semantic Domain 93 has Names of Persons (1-388) and Places (389-615) so can do a Bible Search for Names of Places in John:

<Louw Nida 93.389–93.615>

This is more accurate, but omits Israel (93.182) and includes adjectives like Judean.

(<Louw Nida 93.389–93.615>, <LN 93.182>) ANDEQUALS <LogosMorphGr ~ N????> is better, and helps diagnose where Concordance omits places.

LN 93.487 is often translated Jews, which refers to the people.

Place search that includes many unnamed ones (e.g. Judean territory) is a bit more expansive:

(<ln1.1>,<ln1.5>,<ln1.11-1.12>,<ln1.39>,<ln1.46>,<ln1.60>,<ln1.70>,<ln1.79>,<ln1.86>,<ln1.88>,<ln1.95>,<ln1.97>,<ln4.23>,<ln7.3>,<ln7.7>,<ln7.15-7.16>,<ln7.20>,<ln7.49>,<ln7.56-58>,<ln7.75>,<ln9.7>,<ln9.22-9.23>,<ln11.44>,<ln11.46>,<ln11.55>,<ln15.137>,<ln41.38>,<ln80.1>,<ln 93.182>,<ln93.389-93.486>,<ln93.488–93.561>,<ln93.563-93.615>,<ln3.5>) OR (<ln93.487> WITHIN 0 WORDS (Judea,Judean)) OR (<ln84.13> WITHIN 0 WORDS "from above")

Keep Smiling [:)]

Donnie Hale

Try the Explorer tool. It covers it all!

That's pretty helpful - thanks. Only thing I can tell from your screenshot (I'm not in front of L7 right now) is that I'd have to click on each item under "Biblical Places" to get to the verses for that place. So in terms of what constitutes a "place," that looks like a better list than what's in Concordance or Bible Browser (which is odd, and discouraging). But it still won't give me the full set of verses with any of those places, in canonical order.

Thanks again,

Donnie

MJ. Smith

full set of verses with any of those places, in canonical order.

For this always think export to Passage List and sort.

Donnie Hale

For this always think export to Passage List and sort.

I did think that. I don't see any way to do that from Explorer. There's "Print/Export," which is basically a screen shot of what's being displayed. Nothing relevant shows up by right-clicking. Hopefully I'm missing something obvious, but I'll need someone to point it out.

Since I have your attention, and you are the queen of taxonomy (I mean that with sincere respect), do you think the current L7 functionality across Concordance, Explorer, and Bible Browser is consistent? In Concordance, City, Place, and Natural Place are mutually exclusive - I can't see all of them at once. In Explorer, it's "Biblical Places," which includes the same icons (and presumably entities) for City, Place, and Natural Place as in Concordance. In Bible Browser, there are "Places" - I think they are the same entities, but they aren't using any icons there. And searching for <Place> (just like that) as a Bible search turns up verses with the word "place," which I'll confess doesn't make sense to me - angle brackets have special significance in a search, except when they don't.

I've gone from: "I really need this information, there should be an easy way to do it in L7" (LN semantic ranges does not constitute easy, though it is certainly a valid approach) to "this doesn't really make any sense" to "I'm pretty frustrated now."

I do appreciate all the replies. I should have been clearer in my initial question that I needed the results in the form of a single, full list of verses in canonical order.

Donnie

MJ. Smith

do you think the current L7 functionality across Concordance, Explorer, and Bible Browser is consistent?

No I don't. In early beta testing of the Bible Browser I discovered it was impossible to check the results against a Search. There are some technical reasons why some of them should not be consistent because you may be querying:

the text itself
the text with referent tagging
the original language text underlying the text itself
use of BibleKnowledgebase tagging
. . .

The problem is getting precise descriptions from Faithlife ... the type we get only when we find awkward inconsistencies and they step in to explain. I am personally very uncomfortable with the current state of the data not because of any philosophical disagreement with what they are doing (although Sean would acknowledge that I am a minority of 1 pushing for finer granularity while they are merging items) but because they are midway through a revision of tags with we, as users, unable to determine the status of any vocabulary item.

James Taylor

Try the Explorer tool. It covers it all!

Great method, thanks!

Donnie Hale

Am I missing something about how to export to a passage list?

-Donnie

James Taylor

Am I missing something about how to export to a passage list?

after testing, it's not possible directly from Explorer, but if you run the same range through the passage guide, it works, after you select the "show all" option at the bottom of the Biblical Places section. (Also remember to collapse all sections of the guide when running such a long passage range)...

Donnie Hale

I tried that, seeing the exact same screens in your screen shot. But in the resulting passage list, even though it was named "John 1-21 > Biblical Places," it had 4,412 passages in it, with most of those verses from outside the book of John.

Still no luck...

Thanks for the idea,

Donnie

Fr Devin Roza

Still no luck...

Well, first let me say that you are right, there should be an easy way to do this, it should be possible from the search panel with a simple <Place ANY> or something like that, it should be possible from the Bible Browser, etc.

That being said... here is a workaround solution until it is.

In the Explorer, collapse all sections except for Biblical Places. Then run a search for John 1-21.
Right click on the header, and select "Copy."
Open up Microsoft Word, and paste the results into Word. You'll have one place on each line.
Open up the Search and Replace dialog box. Run the following search and replace. In the "Find what", you are searching for "Paragraph Mark", which you can select from the "Special" button on the bottom left of the Find and Replace dialog. What we are doing is searching for carriage returns, and replacing them with the <Place> format Logos needs:

5. Fix the first and last one manually in Microsoft Word.

6. You'll end up with the following search string, which you can then search for in your preferred Bible, limiting yourself to the Gospel of John, with all the places reported by the Explorer:

7. From your Search Panel menu, select "Save as Passage List." Give it a new name if you like. FYI, I got 88 verses.

8. If you want your single, full list in canonical order to be usable in a document as a pure list of references: In the Passage List you just created, select Print/Export. Then, on the left hand pane, select "Print as minimized list". Finally, select "Copy to clipboard."

Schumitinu

Yes, maybe this has to be a two step-er at least in the concordance tool

They should allow us to choose the top category such as all people or all places or all the women in the Bible and then allow us to create a visual filter.

I'd like to see the option of choosing more than one filter in the Concordance tool (and other Interactives). Kind of selecting more than one.

This would give us the option to find all the references, but then Concordance would not allow us to save it as a passage list neither.

Schumitinu

I tried a Clause search in John for place:ANY. It gave me 3557 hits!!! How can that be? A lot of hits are no places at all. Shouldn't it find all Biblical Entities that are tagged as places? I thought that would be exactly what we are looking for.

Then I tried
place:Any Region OR place:Any City or Town OR place:Any Place OR place:Any village
which gave me exactly one hit. Didn't work neither.

Is this all expected behavior?