Help: Finding all <Place> entities in John

Page 2 of 3 (57 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next >
This post has 56 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 1893
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 2:33 PM

MJ. Smith:
For this always think export to Passage List and sort.

I did think that. I don't see any way to do that from Explorer. There's "Print/Export," which is basically a screen shot of what's being displayed. Nothing relevant shows up by right-clicking. Hopefully I'm missing something obvious, but I'll need someone to point it out.

Since I have your attention, and you are the queen of taxonomy (I mean that with sincere respect), do you think the current L7 functionality across Concordance, Explorer, and Bible Browser is consistent? In Concordance, City, Place, and Natural Place are mutually exclusive - I can't see all of them at once. In Explorer, it's "Biblical Places," which includes the same icons (and presumably entities) for City, Place, and Natural Place as in Concordance. In Bible Browser, there are "Places" - I think they are the same entities, but they aren't using any icons there. And searching for <Place> (just like that) as a Bible search turns up verses with the word "place," which I'll confess doesn't make sense to me - angle brackets have special significance in a search, except when they don't.

I've gone from: "I really need this information, there should be an easy way to do it in L7" (LN semantic ranges does not constitute easy, though it is certainly a valid approach) to "this doesn't really make any sense" to "I'm pretty frustrated now."

I do appreciate all the replies. I should have been clearer in my initial question that I needed the results in the form of a single, full list of verses in canonical order.

Donnie

Posts 26834
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 3:29 PM

Donnie Hale:
do you think the current L7 functionality across Concordance, Explorer, and Bible Browser is consistent?

No I don't. In early beta testing of the Bible Browser I discovered it was impossible to check the results against a Search. There are some technical reasons why some of them should not be consistent because you may be querying:

  • the text itself
  • the text with referent tagging
  • the original language text underlying the text itself
  • use of BibleKnowledgebase tagging
  • . . .

The problem is getting precise descriptions from Faithlife ... the type we get only when we find awkward inconsistencies and they step in to explain. I am personally very uncomfortable with the current state of the data not because of any philosophical disagreement with what they are doing (although Sean would acknowledge that I am a minority of 1 pushing for finer granularity while they are merging items) but because they are midway through a revision of tags with we, as users, unable to determine the status of any vocabulary item.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1394
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 6:20 PM

Schumitinu:
Try the Explorer tool. It covers it all!

Great method, thanks!

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 1893
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 8:14 PM

Am I missing something about how to export to a passage list?

-Donnie

Posts 1394
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 16 2016 8:55 PM

Donnie Hale:
Am I missing something about how to export to a passage list?

after testing, it's not possible directly from Explorer, but if you run the same range through the passage guide, it works, after you select the "show all" option at the bottom of the Biblical Places section. (Also remember to collapse all sections of the guide when running such a long passage range)...

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 1893
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 17 2016 10:39 AM

I tried that, seeing the exact same screens in your screen shot. But in the resulting passage list, even though it was named "John 1-21 > Biblical Places," it had 4,412 passages in it, with most of those verses from outside the book of John.

Still no luck...

Thanks for the idea,

Donnie

Posts 1394
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 17 2016 12:39 PM

Donnie Hale:
most of those verses from outside the book of John.

oops sorry, should've actually compiled the list to test first :(

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 1509
Forum MVP
Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 17 2016 1:12 PM

Donnie Hale:

Still no luck...

Well, first let me say that you are right, there should be an easy way to do this, it should be possible from the search panel with a simple <Place ANY> or something like that, it should be possible from the Bible Browser, etc.

That being said... here is a workaround solution until it is.

  1. In the Explorer, collapse all sections except for Biblical Places. Then run a search for John 1-21.
  2. Right click on the header, and select "Copy."
  3. Open up Microsoft Word, and paste the results into Word. You'll have one place on each line.
  4. Open up the Search and Replace dialog box. Run the following search and replace. In the "Find what", you are searching for "Paragraph Mark", which you can select from the "Special" button on the bottom left of the Find and Replace dialog. What we are doing is searching for carriage returns, and replacing them with the <Place> format Logos needs:

5. Fix the first and last one manually in Microsoft Word.

6. You'll end up with the following search string, which you can then search for in your preferred Bible, limiting yourself to the Gospel of John, with all the places reported by the Explorer:

<Place Galilee>, <Place Bethany (on the Mt. of Olives)>, <Place Sychar>, <Place Golgotha>, <Place Jerusalem>, <Place Judea>, <Place Sea of Galilee>, <Place Capernaum>, <Place Jordan>, <Place Samaria (city)>, <Place Cana>, <Place Nazareth>, <Place Siloam>, <Place Israel>, <Place Bethsaida>, <Place Kidron>, <Place Mount Gerizim>, <Place Bethany (Beyond the Jordan)>, <Place Jacob’s Well>, <Place Aenon>, <Place Bethlehem (of Judah)>, <Place Ophrah (of Benjamin)>, <Place Tiberias>, <Place Beth-Zatha>, <Place Salim>, <Place Places John the Baptist went>, <Place Any Place>, <Place Ramah (of Benjamin)>, <Place Mount of Olives>, <Place Places Jesus went>

7. From your Search Panel menu, select "Save as Passage List." Give it a new name if you like. FYI, I got 88 verses.

8. If you want your single, full list in canonical order to be usable in a document as a pure list of references: In the Passage List you just created, select Print/Export. Then, on the left hand pane, select "Print as minimized list". Finally, select "Copy to clipboard."

Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 18 2016 5:14 AM

James Taylor:
Yes, maybe this has to be a two step-er at least in the concordance tool

John Brumett:

They should allow us to choose the top category such as all people or all places or all the women in the Bible and then allow us to create a visual filter.

I'd like to see the option of choosing more than one filter in the Concordance tool (and other Interactives). Kind of selecting more than one. 

This would give us the option to find all the references, but then Concordance would not allow us to save it as a passage list neither.

Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 18 2016 5:18 AM

I tried a Clause search in John for place:ANY. It gave me 3557 hits!!! How can that be? A lot of hits are no places at all. Shouldn't it find all Biblical Entities that are tagged as places? I thought that would be exactly what we are looking for.

Then I tried
place:Any Region OR place:Any City or Town OR place:Any Place OR place:Any village
which gave me exactly one hit. Didn't work neither. 

Is this all expected behavior?

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 18 2016 12:01 PM

Fr Devin Roza:

Donnie Hale:

Still no luck...

Well, first let me say that you are right, there should be an easy way to do this, it should be possible from the search panel with a simple <Place ANY> or something like that, it should be possible from the Bible Browser, etc.

That being said... here is a workaround solution until it is.

  1. In the Explorer, collapse all sections except for Biblical Places. Then run a search for John 1-21.
  2. Right click on the header, and select "Copy."
  3. Open up Microsoft Word, and paste the results into Word. You'll have one place on each line.
  4. Open up the Search and Replace dialog box. Run the following search and replace. In the "Find what", you are searching for "Paragraph Mark", which you can select from the "Special" button on the bottom left of the Find and Replace dialog. What we are doing is searching for carriage returns, and replacing them with the <Place> format Logos needs:

5. Fix the first and last one manually in Microsoft Word.

6. You'll end up with the following search string, which you can then search for in your preferred Bible, limiting yourself to the Gospel of John, with all the places reported by the Explorer:

<Place Galilee>, <Place Bethany (on the Mt. of Olives)>, <Place Sychar>, <Place Golgotha>, <Place Jerusalem>, <Place Judea>, <Place Sea of Galilee>, <Place Capernaum>, <Place Jordan>, <Place Samaria (city)>, <Place Cana>, <Place Nazareth>, <Place Siloam>, <Place Israel>, <Place Bethsaida>, <Place Kidron>, <Place Mount Gerizim>, <Place Bethany (Beyond the Jordan)>, <Place Jacob’s Well>, <Place Aenon>, <Place Bethlehem (of Judah)>, <Place Ophrah (of Benjamin)>, <Place Tiberias>, <Place Beth-Zatha>, <Place Salim>, <Place Places John the Baptist went>, <Place Any Place>, <Place Ramah (of Benjamin)>, <Place Mount of Olives>, <Place Places Jesus went>

7. From your Search Panel menu, select "Save as Passage List." Give it a new name if you like. FYI, I got 88 verses.

8. If you want your single, full list in canonical order to be usable in a document as a pure list of references: In the Passage List you just created, select Print/Export. Then, on the left hand pane, select "Print as minimized list". Finally, select "Copy to clipboard."

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS!

This is one of the BEST things I have learned all year in Logos.  All of the sudden, knowing how to do this has opened up a whole world of search for me!  THANK YOU!!!

P.S.  Edited to add that your explanation is FLAWLESS!

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 1893
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 6:29 AM

Fr Devin Roza:
That being said... here is a workaround solution until it is.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'll have to get motivated to do that, but I clearly see how it will work.

One comment on your explanation: For me it helps to know up front what the steps in a tutorial like yours are leading to; e.g. "You can follow these steps to create a search string that contains all <Places> in John." Granted, that may just be me. But it makes it easier, at least for me, to relate the individual steps to where they are taking me.

Thanks again,

Donnie

Posts 1893
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 11:55 AM

Fr Devin Roza:
Well, first let me say that you are right, there should be an easy way to do this, it should be possible from the search panel with a simple <Place ANY> or something like that, it should be possible from the Bible Browser, etc.

So Dave, KS4J, Todd, MJ, and Fr Roza have replied in this thread. Does anyone know if someone at FL has seen it and can comment on:

a) The possibility of enhancing a straight search to support this capability, e.g. <Place ANY>?

b) Improving the interactives (Concordance, Bible Browser, Explorer) to support this capability?

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Donnie

Posts 612
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 19 2016 1:02 PM

I been wanting this type of search for a while.  All people (all women and men), all places and all things.

Posts 96
Ruben Gomez | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 22 2016 10:31 AM

I concur. A universal wildcard (be it ANY, * , or whatever) is a must for serious research.

Rubén Gómez

Posts 758
LogosEmployee
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 30 2016 2:13 PM

Schumitinu:

I tried a Clause search in John for place:ANY. It gave me 3557 hits!!! How can that be? A lot of hits are no places at all. Shouldn't it find all Biblical Entities that are tagged as places? I thought that would be exactly what we are looking for.

Then I tried
place:Any Region OR place:Any City or Town OR place:Any Place OR place:Any village
which gave me exactly one hit. Didn't work neither. 

Is this all expected behavior?

The results for "place:Any" aren't correct (and I get the same results with "person:ANY" and "thing:ANY"). I'll follow up on this.

The semantics of "Any Place" is not all places: this is the tag we use for generic places for which we don't have enough information to be more specific. Clause Search with "place:Any Place" returns a single hit (John 11:30), and that's correct: "the place where Martha had met him".

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 30 2016 3:17 PM

Sean Boisen:
The semantics of "Any Place" is not all places: this is the tag we use for generic places for which we don't have enough information to be more specific. Clause Search with "place:Any Place" returns a single hit (John 11:30), and that's correct: "the place where Martha had met him".

Earlier in John 11:30 village has <Place Bethany (on the Mt. of Olives)> that could also apply to the "place" where Martha meet Jesus near Bethany when He had not yet come into the village.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 1 2016 3:06 AM

Sean Boisen:

Schumitinu:

I tried a Clause search in John for place:ANY. It gave me 3557 hits!!! How can that be? A lot of hits are no places at all. Shouldn't it find all Biblical Entities that are tagged as places? I thought that would be exactly what we are looking for.

Then I tried
place:Any Region OR place:Any City or Town OR place:Any Place OR place:Any village
which gave me exactly one hit. Didn't work neither. 

Is this all expected behavior?

The results for "place:Any" aren't correct (and I get the same results with "person:ANY" and "thing:ANY"). I'll follow up on this.

The semantics of "Any Place" is not all places: this is the tag we use for generic places for which we don't have enough information to be more specific. Clause Search with "place:Any Place" returns a single hit (John 11:30), and that's correct: "the place where Martha had met him".

Thank you for clarifying "Any Place" etc. to me, as well as for following up on "place:Any" etc. searches. Much appreciated!

Posts 1893
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 3 2016 5:38 AM

Sean Boisen:
I'll follow up on this.

Do you mean you'll follow up on the overall request in this thread, i.e. the ability to search for all instances of a certain kind of entity?

I would like someone with FL to comment on this - the company's perspective on the concept and if there's a chance it will be implemented.

Thanks,

Donnie

Posts 758
LogosEmployee
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 3 2016 8:58 AM

Donnie Hale:

Sean Boisen:
I'll follow up on this.

Do you mean you'll follow up on the overall request in this thread, i.e. the ability to search for all instances of a certain kind of entity?

I would like someone with FL to comment on this - the company's perspective on the concept and if there's a chance it will be implemented.

Thanks,

Donnie

The results for "place:Any" aren't correct: that's what I've followed up on (nothing more to report yet).

Adding a way to search all values for a data type is an issue for Bradley to address: I'll mention it to him.

Page 2 of 3 (57 items) < Previous 1 2 3 Next > | RSS