Logos having trouble moving L7?

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Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Sep 28 2016 7:59 AM

I got a 2 question email asking me why I had not purchased L7 yet with several options.  The other question was how likely I was to recommend Logos to a friend.  My eagerness to recommend has dropped significantly over the past two years.

But my thoughts on the L7 purchase made me wonder if there just aren't a lot of people moving up to it.  I don't know if you could extrapolate from the forum users a representative of the whole, but it seems like many aren't upgrading.  I personally am not paying ~$175 for just a couple of features I would use.  I am certainly not adding another monthly payment to my plan until this one is paid off (because of the changes in policy).  

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 8:41 AM

Maybe you're the 'last Logos6-er standing?'  A personal email!

More likely standard marketing, 2nd wave. Recommend speaks to your true ecstatic desire for the product.

But I agree, though I don't know their target; maybe it's not us.

Reminiscing inaccurately:

Logos4: radical change; a break from the Bible market, new major marketing

Logos5: great sales and RI's. And L5 hit the sweet spot ... speedy and powerful.

Logos6: meh ... a little this and that. 221 denominational packages

Intermission: Shades of Grey, dating for pastors, and rent-a-thon Now.  20% of Logos goes up in smoke.

Logos7: features for who? 

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 8:57 AM

Denise,

You still make me laugh with your perspective.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 2816
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 9:32 AM

My impression is, Logos is rather trying to move users to Logos Now rather than to Logo 7 - which would mean complimentary upgrades to the latest and greatest version anyway.

So all new features have been discussed in the Logos Now and Logos 6 forums already. So it's quite obvious that the L7 forum is less active than the L5/L6 forums were upon their initial releases.

Personally, I think that L7 offers better value-for-money than any of the previous versions since L3.

I mean, it's like going to Burger King and ordering a double whopper meal upsize with French fries and Coke. If you don't want Coke, you get a Fanta instead. Or a Cesar salad instead of French fries. Or just the whopper if you're not very hungry or need to watch your calories. L7 is just as flexible in combining a selection of components (library, feature set, membership). With that flexibility, most users should be able to compose a "meal" that meets their needs and suits their wallet.

The only thing that might keep me from recommending Logos to a friend is the steep entry level price. It'd be much easier to recommend a package like the "Leaders Library" on L4 for I thin $150, if I remember right.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 12:56 PM

Jan Krohn:
So all new features have been discussed in the Logos Now and Logos 6 forums already. So it's quite obvious that the L7 forum is less active than the L5/L6 forums were upon their initial releases.

In addition, Logos 7 worked ... far fewer bugs to report ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5858
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 2:47 PM

Jan Krohn:
The only thing that might keep me from recommending Logos to a friend is the steep entry level price. It'd be much easier to recommend a package like the "Leaders Library" on L4 for I thin $150, if I remember right.

That is the biggest problem, there is no affordable entry level package.  And the content of the starter library doesn't feel right particularly the commentaries, very heavy on Psalms and then there is JFB and Vincent's, are these already available for free in other software ? Are people really going to pay a premium for Logos to get these two commentaries ? Personally I like FSB but not convinced its for the average person in the pew so it doesn't feel right as the sole study bible in this package. Most of the other stuff is ok, though some of the stuff probably is not really entry level bible study package material either and could have been left out so a better option could have been provided for the study bible for example.

Jan Krohn:
I mean, it's like going to Burger King and ordering a double whopper meal upsize with French fries and Coke.  If you don't want Coke, you get a Fanta instead. Or a Cesar salad instead of French fries. Or just the whopper if you're not very hungry or need to watch your calories. L7 is just as flexible in combining a selection of components (library, feature set, membership). With that flexibility, most users should be able to compose a "meal" that meets their needs and suits their wallet.

If you stand back from the crowd with open eyes, rather than looking at things with the eyes of an insider like a lot of us are when tt comes to the Logos Product environment this is actually what I have noticed is a turn off for some people and potentially for new customers - They are finding it very hard to find the standard whopper on the menu because there are two many other options

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 5:29 PM

Everett Headley:
But my thoughts on the L7 purchase made me wonder if there just aren't a lot of people moving up to it.

Compare the number of posts in the L6 forum to those in the L7 one. 

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Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 8:40 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):

If you stand back from the crowd with open eyes, rather than looking at things with the eyes of an insider like a lot of us are when tt comes to the Logos Product environment this is actually what I have noticed is a turn off for some people and potentially for new customers - They are finding it very hard to find the standard whopper on the menu because there are two many other options

Agreed, but that's a communication problem, and not an issue with the product itself. Even for an insider the process is very complex.

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Christian Debate Forum --- Auferstanden! Blog

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 8:56 PM

Now that this thread has gone for a while, may I ask if anyone has any actual data on Logos 7 sales? or sales vs. expectations? Or to explain to me the pleasures of discussing topics upon which one has only unsubstantiated speculation? And how to expand these pleasures to theology? ... oops we can do the last on these forums.Embarrassed

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2898
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 9:20 PM

Well, I upgraded simply for the books.  I really seldom use any of the new features.  I still study in my ole inductive manner that Dr. Robert Traina (Methodical Bible Study) taught me in seminary.  Maybe someday I will incorporate some of the new features, but I am not interested now.

But there were some good book packages.  I subscribed to Logos Now because it made the overall package cheaper.  I probably will not re-subscribe. 

But I am a sucker for books. 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 5858
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 2:18 AM

MJ. Smith:

Now that this thread has gone for a while, may I ask if anyone has any actual data on Logos 7 sales? or sales vs. expectations? Or to explain to me the pleasures of discussing topics upon which one has only unsubstantiated speculation? And how to expand these pleasures to theology? ... oops we can do the last on these forums.Embarrassed

MJ if you wanted to say we have veered a little off topic in regards to the OP's original post you would be fair in doing so, but you have not said that rather you have been unfair in your judgments. You are the one making unsubstantiated comments  You have somehow taken a discussion of individuals experiences, individuals observations about how some customers have experienced the Logos 7 purchasing decision  and  individuals expectations of an ideal entry level Logos package and somehow you have turned that into an accusation that people are making judgements on the success of the Logos 7 launch. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 2:21 AM

Disciple of Christ (doc):
somehow you have turned that into an accusation that people are making judgements on the success of the Logos 7 launch. 

Somehow that is still how I read the title ... as a rhetorical question implying that Logos is having sales trouble ... how is that an incorrect reading?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5858
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 2:22 AM

Jan Krohn:

Disciple of Christ (doc):

If you stand back from the crowd with open eyes, rather than looking at things with the eyes of an insider like a lot of us are when tt comes to the Logos Product environment this is actually what I have noticed is a turn off for some people and potentially for new customers - They are finding it very hard to find the standard whopper on the menu because there are two many other options

Agreed, but that's a communication problem, and not an issue with the product itself. Even for an insider the process is very complex.

Yes communication has definitely been an issue and for my mind continues to be but that is going to far off topic from the OPs original post so I'll say no more.

Posts 934
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 3:44 AM

I also received the email asking why I had not upgraded. If I remember correctly, there was no option for "other" with a blank spot for us to write in an explanation. Had I been given the chance, I would have chosen that option and explained that Faithlife should have had all the base packages and topical bundles ready at launch. There was a delay in Orthodox being released, topical bundles still are not available, and as of the last time I checked (2 days ago?) Faithlife still had not responded to a thread that had been started asking if there would be a Chaplain's Library this time around. I want to know what ALL the options will be before making a decision, and that includes topical bundles, as the content/pricing of the bundles could potentially influence what base package I would select. Your move, Faithlife.

EDIT: Just to provide more context in case anone from Faithlife reads this, I WANT to make a purchase, but I need to be sure I will be making the right purchase that best suites my needs/budget, as I only see myself making a single purchase this time around. Yes, I could buy something now and return it later if the topical bundles change my mind regarding what best meets my needs, but Faithlife has not provided a ship date, and that leaves me with no guarantee that I will still be within the 30 day return window. Again, I WANT to make a purchase.

Posts 156
Jesús Polaino | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 7:11 AM

Matthew:

EDIT: Just to provide more context in case anone from Faithlife reads this, I WANT to make a purchase, but I need to be sure I will be making the right purchase that best suites my needs/budget, as I only see myself making a single purchase this time around. Yes, I could buy something now and return it later if the topical bundles change my mind regarding what best meets my needs, but Faithlife has not provided a ship date, and that leaves me with no guarantee that I will still be within the 30 day return window. Again, I WANT to make a purchase.

I was exactly in this situation. I upgraded to Stater Standard expecting the Spanish base packages to be launched within 30 days to decide to buy the Spanish one or upgrade to the Bronze Standard. Sadly, the Spanish base packages are not alive as yet, so I returned my Starter Standard.  I really don´t like this situation as it means extra work for Faithlife people. Next time Iwill be more patient.

Blessings,

Posts 3075
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 7:26 AM

Denise:

Logos4: radical change; a break from the Bible market, new major marketing

Logos5: great sales and RI's. And L5 hit the sweet spot ... speedy and powerful.

Logos6: meh ... a little this and that. 221 denominational packages

Intermission: Shades of Grey, dating for pastors, and rent-a-thon Now.  20% of Logos goes up in smoke.

Logos7: features for who? 

Quite possibly the best review of Logos bible software I've ever seen. Smile

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 934
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 7:54 AM

Jesús Polaino:
I was exactly in this situation. I upgraded to Stater Standard expecting the Spanish base packages to be launched within 30 days to decide to buy the Spanish one or upgrade to the Bronze Standard. Sadly, the Spanish base packages are not alive as yet, so I returned my Starter Standard.

It would perhaps boost Faithlife's sales if they were willing to extend the 30-day return limit given the situation. However, I still do not know that I would go for it due to the simple fact that it would make it more difficult to compare things after the bundles are released. Example: Suppose today I buy base package A, which contains books that will later be included in topical bundles X and Y. When X and Y are actually released, I decide it would have made more sense to buy base package B along with bundles X and Y. I would need to contact customer service to get an accurate price comparison because my purchase of A impacts the price I am shown for purchasing B, X, and Y. I would rather just wait and compare everything myself without working backwards trying to figure out what would be different had I not already purchased a base package. 

Posts 934
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 7:54 AM

[Deleted - accidental duplicate post]

Posts 1562
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 8:51 AM

I moved up to L7 mainly because I understood at the time that the Bible Browser was included in the L7 Full Feature set.  It was a major disappointment when I learned it was not included and I seriously considered returning the Feature set as I wasn't that interested in the other L7 features that were not already in L6.  But... I didn't return it.  Hoping instead the Browser will be included in the Feature set when L8 is released and that I'll live long enough to be around for it.

I also used the L7 release though to pick up the following libraries that had some resources I felt would complement my library and for that I'm thankful.

LIBRARIES

  • Standard Silver
  • Anglican Bronze
  • Methodist and Wesleyan Bronze
  • Pentecostal and Charismatic Bronze

PS:  If L7 sales are slow (and I'm not suggesting they are--really have no idea) but if they are, perhaps adding the Bible Browser to the Full Feature set would generate some additional interest.  I know... My bad.  Embarrassed

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 29 2016 10:30 AM

Matthew:
Faithlife should have had all the base packages and topical bundles ready at launch. There was a delay in Orthodox being released, topical bundles still are not available, and as of the last time I checked (2 days ago?) Faithlife still had not responded to a thread that had been started asking if there would be a Chaplain's Library this time around. I want to know what ALL the options will be before making a decision, and that includes topical bundles, as the content/pricing of the bundles could potentially influence what base package I would select. Your move, Faithlife.

Well put.  It seems to me the Logos 7 roll out has not gone as smoothly as the Logos 6 launch, If they had waited until October maybe they would have had Orthodox, Chaplains, and Topical bundles ready,

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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