Embarrassing question - Judah and Israel

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This post has 29 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Oct 8 2016 7:06 PM

ok go easy on me please...it it late and I am trying to focus on some of those oracles within Isaiah for class please...

Can anyone point to or give us a link to a readily accessible by most map within LogosNow (for example) to show how Judah/Israel interacted through the years or were at war with another, both were attached by whom and when, etc?  Also was God upset with both nations at the same time or seperately?

I am embarrassed to admit for years I thought they were somehow extensions of one another and now as I read Isaiah I recognize how ignorant (might be too harsh a word) I have been of geography and historical significance of these two nations/locations/locales?

Anyone got some good easy to copy/paste resources to put here...a sort of Judah/Israel primer please?

Yes I know I am a grad school student and no I am NOT asking you to do my homework for me...but I am hoping you will graciously and kindly illuminate and educate us all in a simple manner (if possible) please.

So here is the embarrassing question:

Were Judah and Israel ever one and how much impact through how many years did they have upon one another?  Anyone else get the two nations or places muddled in their heads and assimilate them into one region that various nations attacked and carted off?  Do you two forget who was in the north and who was in the south and how much each mattered in the Bible?

I wonder if Logos offers a basic course on Biblical Geography - perhaps:

BASIC THINGS EVERY CHRISTIAN SHOULD KNOW ABOUT BIBLICAL GEOGRAPHY .

Maybe this resource currently NOT in my library might help....right?

https://www.logos.com/product/32889/a-visual-guide-to-bible-events-fascinating-insights-into-where-they-happened-and-why

and to show I am not completely helpless or a lost cause...

https://www.logos.com/product/7301/holman-bible-atlas-a-complete-guide-to-the-expansive-geography-of-biblical-history

No doubt that has some good info as well....any others - maybe something very basic?  Other than my NKJV and Bible commentary what Logos Now resources would you have open and linked together if you were me?

I just know some seasoned Pastor or more alert Seminarian is asking themselves right now "He's kidding, right?".  Nope...I sacrificed my dignity so we might all be edified at once Smile

Posts 461
Robert Harner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 8 2016 8:26 PM

The best way to figure it out is to read I Samuel - II Chronicles with a good commentary like The Bible Knowledge Commentary  (it is in a dozen or so L7 packages)

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 8 2016 8:27 PM

Thanks Robert...I actually have that resource and will open and review it as well...thanks.

Posts 461
Robert Harner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 8 2016 8:39 PM

After reading the Bible books Kingdom of Priests: A History of Old Testament Israel  would be a good next book to read.

Posts 461
Robert Harner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 8 2016 9:06 PM

The division was after the death of Solomon. Map below is from:
Holman Book of Biblical Charts, Maps, and Reconstructions 

Posts 621
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 9 2016 8:25 AM

Probably not enough time to do it before your class, but I'd highly recommending taking the time at least once to read the bible in chronological order. You can buy a special Bible for this, or make your own reading plan in Logos HERE. I found reading the Bible this way to be very helpful not only for understanding what was going on with Judah and Israel, but also for understanding the role and timing of the minor prophets.

Posts 151
Dave L | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 9 2016 10:05 AM

This might help understand Israel & Judah. Included is a download link for the Reese Chronological Bible as a personal Book for Logos. But first;

Reese Chronological Bible From an Amazon Customer review.

5.0 out of 5 stars Love the Side-by-side Text for Divided Kingdom

By Amazon Customer on January 7, 2012
Format: Hardcover Verified Purchase

"I agree with the other reviews that a chronological bible is a must for the serious bible student; one of the most helpful Old Testament features is the side-by-side text during the time of the divided kingdom."

"You will get a better historical understanding of parallel events, especially during the fall of the Northern kingdom and then ending with the exile to Babylon. During this period (945-721 B.C.), the left side of each page follows the history of Israel, known as the Northern Kingdom, and the right side of the page Judah, the Southern Kingdom."

https://www.amazon.com/review/R26XJHYU9RIMUC/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0871231158&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=283155&store=books

Here is a link of the Reese Chronological Bible in Personal Book form by John Brumett

https://community.logos.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/77/6036.Reese-Chronological-Bible.docx

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 9 2016 1:32 PM

Thank you Ryan, Dave, and Robert (awesome map...cool beans!).  Your replies and book suggestions (some of which I thankfully own) are a blessing.  I over J is how I will remember the map and of course read more so I get the important geographical cues properly.

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 15 2016 8:46 PM

I continue to wonder if there isn't some easy way to open the following

  • 1 Bible
  • 1 Map (or book that tracks with maps so while reading Isaiah I can actually figure out where I am geographically...a sort of "Where in the Biblical World Am I" feature
  • 1 Commentary
  • 1 People/Place/Location pronouncer that always works especially when it comes time to read in a public setting and you either need to say it phonetically or have the software actually say the word aloud for you.

To me this seems like something very basic that Logos should have available right off without programming a layout and all the steps (I call them crazy gyrations) that takes.

Here is my most recent attempt.  Does it look right to any of you?  (Mr. Harner, I went back and added the Holman Book though it is missing from my example below)

Does anyone else beside me this process should be effortless and simple?  Having a Biblical map that tracks with you while you read would be so awesome don't you think?  I linked all my resources and to date can not find a map that follows along or changes as you go...wow what a resource that would be!

Posts 461
Robert Harner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 16 2016 3:06 PM

JoshInRI:

Does anyone else beside me this process should be effortless and simple?  Having a Biblical map that tracks with you while you read would be so awesome don't you think?  I linked all my resources and to date can not find a map that follows along or changes as you go...wow what a resource that would be!

It may be possible, but also possible the costs would be that no one this side of Roger Williams Park could afford it. Lots of elbow grease  can set the maps in your mind so you have less need to look at them after a while. I have a dead tree atlas or two I'm planning to read cover to cover in next few months to further solidify land masses in the little gray cells. Spending the time including at minimum a read though Gen-Rev every year pays off after a while.

Posts 906
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 16 2016 3:33 PM

JoshInRI:

  • 1 Bible
  • 1 Map (or book that tracks with maps so while reading Isaiah I can actually figure out where I am geographically...a sort of "Where in the Biblical World Am I" feature
  • 1 Commentary
  • 1 People/Place/Location pronouncer that always works especially when it comes time to read in a public setting and you either need to say it phonetically or have the software actually say the word aloud for you.

I would make a custom passage guide, with just the sections "Atlas", "Biblical Places" and "Biblical People" (Atlas is usually what I want more than biblical places, but your mileage may vary). Then put that into a layout with a bible and your preferred commentary. When you click on a biblical person or place, it will open the Factbook, which will pronounce it for you.

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 3:14 PM

Thanks Mr. Gatlin.  I will try that out.  What a shame one of the new layouts doesn't automatically do this for us at the start menu, right?  I know that Bible Explorer tries to do some of this but as I pointed out elsewhere in the forums...it needs to be vastly improved and overhauled along with the confusing menus...seriously.

Addendum:  I tried this and incredibly do not find any results under Atlas (though I own some within Logos) other other items on this list.

What gives?  See below please:


Posts 27020
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 3:36 PM

JoshInRI:
What a shame one of the new layouts doesnt automatically do this for us at the start menu, right?!!!

Don't gripe ... make a suggestion.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 4:14 PM

..thanks I did and have...apparently more than once.  I am seriously looking for assistance and am finding it in other posts too.

I am just stunned at how challenging doing the most basic of things in Logos really is.  I look forward to a from the ground up revamp now that 7.0 has been released.

Blessings,

Joshua

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 4:14 PM

JoshInRI:
under Atlas (though I own some within Logos) other other items on this list.

Under Atlas you get only results from a specific online resource called "Atlas"

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 27020
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 4:18 PM

JoshInRI:
I look forward to a from the ground up revamp now that 7.0 has been released.

Given the current direction of the betas, I doubt that is in the near future. I would expect the next revamp to be timed to when voice and touch are the primary rather than secondary ways of dealing with the computer.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 4:20 PM

MJ...that is amazing.  I thought it might draw from other atlases within our library. 

(as an aside....)

My guess is reading anyone looking at my posts is either annoyed (sorry) or hopefully smiling recognizing I am in the throes of finally trying to make practical use of Logos (LogosNow to be precise) and seeing how far it has come and well...how much further it has to go.

I also know that my honest confession of ignorance (gulp) is helpful to some when the answers are posted as well and for God's grace there (and the kindness of so many forum posters) I am thankful.

I would enjoy simplicity in menu and functionality but recognize the complexity of that pursuit too.  I just feel with each iteration of Logos I need to become a programmer of sorts.  Seems silly to me.  I am very thankful for what we do have though (Praise God and thank you Logos developers one and all).

Posts 600
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 4:26 PM

JoshInRI:
Do you two forget who was in the north and who was in the south and how much each mattered in the Bible?

Here's how I remember it: Israel, Judah, North, South, in the alphabet, I comes before J.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 4:42 PM

MJ. Smith:

I would expect the next revamp to be timed to when voice and touch are the primary rather than secondary ways of dealing with the computer.

Hello Computer

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 17 2016 5:02 PM

Thanks Ted.  I am looking over my first silly post above and have come quite far since then in my understanding.  I just read that Israel attacked Judah in the ESV Study Bible and that Bible contains come nice color maps in it too.

I am just dumbfounded by how poor my understanding of Biblical geography is...and for that I can only ask that God gives me enough years to study and correct it as I believe it is vital not just for classes but to aid others when I share info simply with them in the future too.

I comes before J is an excellent way of looking at it.  Now keeping track of all those oracles, supposed misguided alliance attempts, and how often people did not rely upon the Lord exclusively when they should have - these are entirely different important matters.

It seems amazing over 2K have looked at this post.  Probably tuning it to laugh along with me or see how I am doing trying to make better use of this awesome tool in Logos we have.

Blessings Sir/All

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