O'Brien commentaries and Academics

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This post has 60 Replies | 3 Followers

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 16 2018 8:03 AM

Paul Caneparo:
Strange it works on an iPad. Doesn't on my Android.

brien works on my Android, but not on my ipad.

This does need tidying upSmile

Posts 2589
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 16 2018 10:14 AM

Michel Pauw:
Does any of you still have O'Brien's commentary on Hebrews (Pillar), Ephesians (Pillar) or Philippians (NIGTC)?

I still have them, thankfully.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 2733
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 16 2018 1:37 PM

Doc B:

Michel Pauw:
Does any of you still have O'Brien's commentary on Hebrews (Pillar), Ephesians (Pillar) or Philippians (NIGTC)?

I still have them, thankfully.

Yes, could care less about this non-issue.

Posts 60
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 16 2018 2:54 PM

I still have all the three of the O'Brien resources, and the Varner EEC for James, and BECNT John by Kostenberger. I have them all marked in multiple ways to not cite, but still consult them as they are very useful.

Posts 5338
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 16 2018 4:26 PM

Matt Hamrick:

I still have all the three of the O'Brien resources, and the Varner EEC for James, and BECNT John by Kostenberger. I have them all marked in multiple ways to not cite, but still consult them as they are very useful.

The information is still true regardless. Is not like plagiarism means “false information.” I still have my copies and refer to them when preparing a class or a sermon. I won’t be writing an academic paper any time soon anyway.

DAL

Posts 9255
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 16 2018 5:14 PM

Stanley Porter seemed to think it was an issue ... commentaries regurgitating commentaries (with unintended goof-ups in the regurgitating).

https://domainthirtythree.com/2016/09/05/the-shocking-news-of-peter-obrien-and-plagiarism-august-is-the-cruellest-month/ 

Presuming his points, ECC seems a definite long-shot.


Posts 1132
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 16 2018 7:04 PM

Michel Pauw:

I thought Logos wouldn't remove Peter T. O'Brien's commentary from our library (and I think they don't have the right to do that, since I bought the book). But now it seems they did and I wasn't aware of it...

Does any of you still have O'Brien's commentary on Hebrews (Pillar), Ephesians (Pillar) or Philippians (NIGTC)?

I still have all three.  I only checked on my laptop, but all three show up whether searching on obrien or o'brien.

Posts 2589
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 16 2018 8:59 PM

DAL:
The information is still true regardless. Is not like plagiarism means “false information.”

Yes, and more importantly, not all the information was plagiarized. It is still useful, and O'Brien is a good author, in my experience.

If you find something that was plagiarized (and those sources were made public, IIRC), simply go to the other (original) source and cite it from there.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 17 2018 4:00 AM

Denise:

Stanley Porter seemed to think it was an issue ... commentaries regurgitating commentaries (with unintended goof-ups in the regurgitating).

https://domainthirtythree.com/2016/09/05/the-shocking-news-of-peter-obrien-and-plagiarism-august-is-the-cruellest-month/ 

Denise, thank you for that link. I had read it previously, but it is well worth a second look, and a third…

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Posts 1266
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 12:46 AM

Just wonder, what would happen if a commentary said something actually new?

For example in Matthew 14:26 one could say that Jesus waited for a good wind and started surfing.

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 610
Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 2:10 AM

Cynthia in Florida:

PERFECT response!  I never can come up with those witty one-liners!

Witty yes - Perfect not so much

Current theological reflection is based on our reading of scripture itself and the reading of as much theological writing as we can manage. These can go back all the way to the early church fathers and even into the Jewish rabbinic sources.

Two points.

1. Are the early church father writing scripture as they are often writing entirely original theological 'papers'? (i.e. based almost exclusively on scripture, often in the very early days on OT and a partial NT)

2. Original first century exegesis contain scores of oblique and manipulative (imprecise) citation forms. For instance Midrash and Pesher forms. Even Jesus can be demonstrated to use these forms - often not giving the Prophet due credit for the saying being used.

I understand the problem. We are struggling to contain the dishonest student (and others) who are often claiming the work of predecessors as their own, or being slack in formal citation (useful to researchers).

At the other end we are becoming so closed down by our reaction to this problem that we are unable to confidently call upon our background experience and reading that we can write freely. This becomes particularly true when the rigor expected of academics is increasing year on year to counter the problem.

So the free quoting of sources in the style of our predecessors is now denied to us!

There are no easy answers to any of this.

Shalom.

Posts 9255
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 6:37 AM

Personally, I think Porter is correct. And the commentary industry is seriously sick (my opinion). People say, well gee, what's there to write??  But most commentaries I check never seem to deal with the obvious ... they're battling their fellows on this argument or that.

Yesterday, I got stuck on a famous word in Psa 23. The common translation ignores its usage elsewhere. The LXX, Syriac, and targums were really struggling, so you can't just shrug. And hardly a mention of 'what happened?' by my major series. And this isn't unusual either. There's sort of a 'world' they seem to have to stick to, and it's not even denominational, or conservative vs liberal. Their world.


Posts 2780
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 7:26 AM

Doc B:

Michel Pauw:
Does any of you still have O'Brien's commentary on Hebrews (Pillar), Ephesians (Pillar) or Philippians (NIGTC)?

I still have them, thankfully.

Yes, I do still have them, and I am very glad that I do. 

They may be academically tainted by plagiarism issues; however, in terms of practical use in understanding the text, they are among the best commentaries I have.  And I have a lot commentaries.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 231
Colin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 7:56 AM

Denise:
Yesterday, I got stuck on a famous word in Psa 23.

Aw Denise you can't leave us hanging like this Smile

Which word? 

Colin

Posts 610
Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 8:03 AM

Denise:

...  I got stuck on a famous word in Psa 23.

And the famous word .... is  ....

Ah missed it !

Posts 9255
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 10:04 AM

Sorry, Colin and Kevin. If I told you, you'd just yawn, point out my error, list umpteen commentaries, and add a smiley face.

Life is dangerous on the forum (used to be!).

'Annoint' Psa 23:5 . Very interesting, since it tends to create circular reasoning regarding the psalm. But the attempts at translation, especially the last phrase demonstrate lots of creativity. Luckily, the KJV locked it in solid.


Posts 231
Colin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 10:29 AM

Oh Denise, 

you've got me wrong - I very rarely add a smiley face. 

I agree, it's very interesting - I must take a closer look. 

Colin. 

Posts 9255
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 11:01 AM

Colin:

Oh Denise, 

you've got me wrong - I very rarely add a smiley face. 

Colin. 

Ah shucks!  This is badly off the O'Brien trail, but when Jerome arrived, he apparently (my latin is awful) decided to stay the course with a literal translation, plus a drunken psalm writer. His latin choice then bounces you to Psa 141:5 where some english translators (eg NRSV) again try for annoint, complete with wicked person oil (this time another odd hebrew word). 

Well, I waste folks' time. Sorry.


Posts 187
Michel Pauw | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 20 2018 12:10 PM

Thanks for the responses. I didn't intend to flame up the discussion, but I wondered if they had gone out of my library. I know for sure that I had at least two commentaries by O'Brien and they didn't appear to be in Logos. So, apparently they should still be in my hard copy library, to which I have no access at this point.

Posts 1456
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 20 2018 5:24 PM

Michel Pauw:
Does any of you still have O'Brien's commentary on Hebrews (Pillar), Ephesians (Pillar) or Philippians (NIGTC)?

All 3 are still in my library.

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