Bugs/Comments: Anarthrous Morph Query

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Oct 24 2016 4:06 AM

Please see this thread for the background.

1. The query I eventually came up with is

This gave 459 results in 445 verses. I had been expecting a result in Rev 7:1, but none were listed after Jude 12. Changing the range to 10 words gave 479 in 482, with the difference due to results spanning verses, but it showed many results in Revelation that should have appeared in the original query. Changing the range to Revelation produced the missing results!

2. Altering it to find disagreeing articles

This produces 26 results in 26.

But including Language with the Disagree produces 0 results, which illustrates that disagreement applies to ALL included terms. However, it does not affect the result of the anarthrous query?

3. Comments arising from this project:

  • it would be beneficial to store the document, or an image, locally as issues with the server can easily result in lost queries (only the document name is stored locally)
  • it would be beneficial to take notes with the query and store them locally (assists the learning process)
  • document the features, particularly the range and proximity concepts which differ from text Search e.g. 10 Words vs. 20 Words range (both span verses, but what is the real difference?). 10 Words vs. 1 Verse. 1 Verse vs. 2 Verses. When multiple proximity constraints are needed.
  • allow Passage Lists and Word Lists to be generated
  • Remove Save as Visual filter from panel menu

Dave
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Windows 10 & Android 8

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Philana R. Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 24 2016 4:10 PM

Dave,

I'm looking into getting you an answer.

Posts 86
Scott Fleischman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 25 2016 5:11 PM

Dave Hooton:

Please see this thread for the background.

1. The query I eventually came up with is

This gave 459 results in 445 verses. I had been expecting a result in Rev 7:1, but none were listed after Jude 12. Changing the range to 10 words gave 479 in 482, with the difference due to results spanning verses, but it showed many results in Revelation that should have appeared in the original query. Changing the range to Revelation produced the missing results!

There was a paging bug in the morph query results that was causing the results from Revelation to be dropped if you scroll to the bottom. This is also the same bug that was omitting results from Romans. https://community.logos.com/forums/t/132128.aspx Note that the result count and verse counts at the top are correct, it's just that you can't scroll down to see them in context. This is fixed and will go out in the next beta.

Details. The current verse results view assumes one row per verse and combines multiple results into a single verse with color highlighting for each result. The morph query results are different in that the color corresponds to the columns in the query, so it needs a separate row for each result. The view was only showing the results for the number of verses.

Dave Hooton:

2. Altering it to find disagreeing articles

This produces 26 results in 26.

But including Language with the Disagree produces 0 results, which illustrates that disagreement applies to ALL included terms. However, it does not affect the result of the anarthrous query?

Selecting multiple options for "Agree" ANDs them together. So "Agree on Case, Number, Gender" turns into "Agree on Case AND Agree on Number AND Agree on Gender". Likewise "Disagree on Case, Number, Gender" is effectively "Disagree on Case AND Disagree on Number AND Disagree on Gender". This UI doesn't have a way to specify OR'ing relations together.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 25 2016 8:34 PM

Scott Fleischman:
Selecting multiple options for "Agree" ANDs them together. So "Agree on Case, Number, Gender" turns into "Agree on Case AND Agree on Number AND Agree on Gender".

Useful for finding articles, adjectives, participles, and pronouns whose usage agrees.

Scott Fleischman:
Likewise "Disagree on Case, Number, Gender" is effectively "Disagree on Case AND Disagree on Number AND Disagree on Gender". This UI doesn't have a way to specify OR'ing relations together.

For anarthrous searching, being able to choose "Disagree on Case OR Disagree on Number OR Disagree on Gender" would be greatly appreciated for Morph Query and Syntax Search => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/131897/860637.aspx#860637

Keep Smiling Smile

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2016 1:01 AM

Scott Fleischman:
Details. The current verse results view assumes one row per verse and combines multiple results into a single verse with color highlighting for each result. The morph query results are different in that the color corresponds to the columns in the query, so it needs a separate row for each result. The view was only showing the results for the number of verses.

'Current' view meaning Bible Search results?  Which 'view', though? --> please clarify

Scott Fleischman:
...Disagree on Number AND Disagree on Gender

Adding language does not affect the anarthrous query, so it appears the implied disagreement is on Number OR Gender OR Case (OR language)?

Dave
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Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 86
Scott Fleischman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2016 10:38 AM

Dave Hooton:

Scott Fleischman:
Details. The current verse results view assumes one row per verse and combines multiple results into a single verse with color highlighting for each result. The morph query results are different in that the color corresponds to the columns in the query, so it needs a separate row for each result. The view was only showing the results for the number of verses.

'Current' view meaning Bible Search results?  Which 'view', though? --> please clarify

Any search that is not a morph query document and uses the verses view (such morph or bible).

Dave Hooton:

Scott Fleischman:
...Disagree on Number AND Disagree on Gender

Adding language does not affect the anarthrous query, so it appears the implied disagreement is on Number OR Gender OR Case (OR language)?

I'm not quite sure what examples you're referring to. Combining "disagree on language" with a column that "does not exist" will probably not do what you expect.

I find it helpful to start with a very simple query to verify my understanding. For example, make a query for two adjacent nouns that disagree on surface. Run the query. It should return results. Now also check disagree on language. It should return zero results.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 26 2016 2:21 PM

Scott Fleischman:

Dave Hooton:

Scott Fleischman:
...Disagree on Number AND Disagree on Gender

Adding language does not affect the anarthrous query, so it appears the implied disagreement is on Number OR Gender OR Case (OR language)?

I'm not quite sure what examples you're referring to. Combining "disagree on language" with a column that "does not exist" will probably not do what you expect.

The first query in my original post is the Anarthrous query. What is the effect of "Does not exist" on the Agreement for an article to be in the results?

Dave
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Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 86
Scott Fleischman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 27 2016 2:50 PM

Dave Hooton:

The first query in my original post is the Anarthrous query. What is the effect of "Does not exist" on the Agreement for an article to be in the results?

When you say "do not exist" on a column that "disagrees on language" you are effectively doing the same query as if you didn't have that column in the first place, since every word agrees in language in SBLGNT. There will never be an article preceding that disagrees on language. Double negatives are not unsubtle.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 30 2016 2:15 PM

Scott Fleischman:

Dave Hooton:

The first query in my original post is the Anarthrous query. What is the effect of "Does not exist" on the Agreement for an article to be in the results?

When you say "do not exist" on a column that "disagrees on language"

But that wasn't my question. The first query is "Does not exist" on a column that Agrees on Language, Case, Number and Gender. What is the effect of "Does not exist" on the Agreement for an article to be in the results? e.g. NOT agree, disagree on at least one of 4 terms.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 86
Scott Fleischman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2016 12:46 AM

Dave Hooton:

The first query is "Does not exist" on a column that Agrees on Language, Case, Number and Gender. What is the effect of "Does not exist" on the Agreement for an article to be in the results? e.g. NOT agree, disagree on at least one of 4 terms.

In your first query, the article is "within 4 words" of the participle.

So if we consider the window "word1 word2 word3 word4", where word4 is the participle, then none of word1, word2 and/or word3 will be an article that agrees in case, number and gender with word4.

If word1 disagrees on case but agrees on number and gender, and word2 and word3 are unrelated, then that will show up in the results (with word4 highlighted).

 

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Philana R. Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2016 10:01 AM

Dave Hooton:

Please see this thread for the background.

1. The query I eventually came up with is

This gave 459 results in 445 verses. I had been expecting a result in Rev 7:1, but none were listed after Jude 12. Changing the range to 10 words gave 479 in 482, with the difference due to results spanning verses, but it showed many results in Revelation that should have appeared in the original query. Changing the range to Revelation produced the missing results!

This should now be working properly in 7.2 Beta 4

Posts 25098
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 1 2016 1:42 AM

Philana R. Crouch:
This should now be working properly in 7.2 Beta 4

Thanks

Dave
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Windows 10 & Android 8

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Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 1 2016 1:58 AM

Scott Fleischman:
none of word1, word2 and/or word3 will be an article that agrees in case, number and gender with word4.

Thanks that confirms my observation.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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