Are we missing some "Paul" tagging in the Pauline epistles?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Oct 30 2016 8:46 AM

I was trying to find out where Paul speaks about him boasting in something / someone - and was trying to constrain the number of results by using "INTERSECT <Person Paul>"

The two searches below suggest that some People Tagging is missing (blue numerals). Either that or I am misunderstanding something.

Thoughts appreciated.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 30 2016 10:47 AM

I don't think the person tagging works consistently like that. It's much more accurate on nouns/pronouns, not on verbs — and there's no pronoun in the Greek. I don't know why that is.

You should try the clause search: agent:Paul verb-lemma:καυχάομαι — although that doesn't return 2 Cor 10:8 or 12:6 for reasons that I don't have time to dig into, sorry.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 30 2016 1:20 PM

Mark Barnes:
I don't think the person tagging works consistently like that

On reflection I think you are right - thanks

Mark Barnes:
You should try the clause search: agent:Paul verb-lemma:καυχάομαι — although that doesn't return 2 Cor 10:8 or 12:6 for reasons that I don't have time to dig into, sorry.

Thanks Mark - great suggestion.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 30 2016 2:50 PM

Mark Barnes:
I don't think the person tagging works consistently like that.

I think the tagging is inconsistent when two nearby verbs are tagged in one instance (2 Cor 11:30) but omitted in another (2 Cor 10:8).

Mark Barnes:
and there's no pronoun in the Greek.

??

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2016 1:32 AM

Mark Barnes:
You should try the clause search: agent:Paul verb-lemma:καυχάομαι — although that doesn't return 2 Cor 10:8 or 12:6 for reasons that I don't have time to dig into

It may be that in those cases Paul is saying "even if I boast"; "even if I should choose to boast" - in other words he isn't actually boasting he is thinking about boasting.

Subtle - but might be what is going on here.

Or it could be a tagging omissionSmile

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2016 1:33 AM

Dave Hooton:
I think the tagging is inconsistent when two nearby verbs are tagged in one instance (2 Cor 11:30) but omitted in another (2 Cor 10:8).

Does my suggestion about "potential boasting" help here at all?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2016 1:45 AM

I've just noticed that the Agent search doesn't include Romans 5:2 which I would have expected it to - so we may be back to tagging omissions.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2016 12:45 PM

Graham Criddle:

Dave Hooton:
I think the tagging is inconsistent when two nearby verbs are tagged in one instance (2 Cor 11:30) but omitted in another (2 Cor 10:8).

Does my suggestion about "potential boasting" help here at all?

The Greek verb seems to have much the same meaning as "pronoun + verb" in English, so why is the first "I" not a referent whereas the last "I" is (2 Cor 10:8)?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2016 2:02 PM

Dave Hooton:
The Greek verb seems to have much the same meaning as "pronoun + verb" in English, so why is the first "I" not a referent whereas the last "I" is (2 Cor 10:8)?

Sorry - I don't understand this.

Which last "I" is a referent?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2016 3:34 PM

Dave Hooton:
The Greek verb seems to have much the same meaning as "pronoun + verb" in English, so why is the first "I" not a referent whereas the last "I" is (2 Cor 10:8)?

It should ... which is why the interlinear is misleading unless taken to the morpheme level ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Philana R. Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2016 4:02 PM

Graham Criddle:

I was trying to find out where Paul speaks about him boasting in something / someone - and was trying to constrain the number of results by using "INTERSECT <Person Paul>"

The two searches below suggest that some People Tagging is missing (blue numerals). Either that or I am misunderstanding something.

Thoughts appreciated.

Hi Graham,

I'm looking into this and hope to be able to have more info tomorrow.

Blessings,

Philana

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 31 2016 8:05 PM

Thanks Philana

Appreciated, Graham

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 1 2016 2:26 AM

Graham Criddle:
Which last "I" is a referent?

"I am not ashamed" is a referent (2 Cor 10.8).

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 1 2016 2:41 AM

Dave Hooton:

Graham Criddle:
Which last "I" is a referent?

"I am not ashamed" is a referent (2 Cor 10.8).

True - but as far as I can see it doesn't return hits in a clause search either.

EDIT: Sorry - you were meaning that one was tagged with "Person:Paul" and the other wasn't.

Agreed this is not consistent.

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Peter Venable | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 1 2016 9:15 AM

It looks like the annotator missed tagging the subject of καυχήσωμαι as Paul. I'll make a note so we can fix this in a future update.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 1 2016 9:25 AM

Thanks Peter

Appreciated, Graham 

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