Logos does not owe you a sale

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This post has 25 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 72
Andrew116 | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Dec 2 2016 12:46 PM

I've noticed a bit of whinging on the forums about the level of discounts offered, the sorts of things that are on sale, etc.

It's worth pointing out, Logos doesn't owe you any sales. They are free to sell what they want at the prices they want. You can choose to buy elsewhere. That's how our market works.

Now, I'm first to say that there have been some shonky marketing practices, some very frustrating decisions (eg prepub stopping future sales), and some genuine problems with the way the website shows value etc.

Let's save our constructive criticism for the things that actually matter. The more we whinge about X or Y sale not being what we wanted, the more Faithlife will see us as people who will never be pleased, and ignore us

Posts 5084
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 2 2016 1:02 PM

Andrew116:
Now, I'm first to say that there have been some shonky marketing practices, some very frustrating decisions (eg prepub stopping future sales), and some genuine problems with the way the website shows value etc.

And we are raising those issues...

Andrew116:
Faithlife will see us as people who will never be pleased, and ignore us

And they will do so at their loss.  A business who starts to ignores is customers concerns will loose its customers

Andrew116:
It's worth pointing out, Logos doesn't owe you any sales. They are free to sell what they want at the prices they want. You can choose to buy elsewhere. That's how our market works.

We all know how the market works.  But as long term customers we are giving Faithlife the respect of providing them with feedback of why we have become disolutioned and disengaged with them and that extends to not just ...

Andrew116:
some shonky marketing practices, some very frustrating decisions (eg prepub stopping future sales), and some genuine problems with the way the website shows value etc.
but also the lack lustre offerings on sales. Its all part of the same package. To ignore this part would result in us being dishonest with ourselves and dishonest with Faithlife.  While I respect your choice to not raise this issue yourself, please respect the choice of others for whom these sort of things are a serious concern and feel they need to be voiced.

 A company that is customer focussed is interested in what is disengages their customers  These forums are for all customers of Faithlife to provide feedback on what both engages and disengages.  Whether or not they choose to listen is their choice, their business and it is their concern.  

Posts 943
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 2 2016 1:03 PM

I think if you look back at the forums this has been posted many times.  many times.  another one?

Posts 1577
Kenute P. Curry | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 2 2016 1:07 PM

Right on point Disciple of Christ (doc)

What you posted is very logical and makes a lot of sense.

YesYesYesYesYes

Posts 3249
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 2 2016 1:17 PM

Andrew116:

It's worth pointing out, Logos doesn't owe you any sales. They are free to sell what they want at the prices they want.

Yes, and yes.

I have no idea how much FL needs to sell things for to be profitable, or how profitable they are. I hope they will be profitable and continue to innovate.

I might not be able to afford what they sell, even if it is on sale, but I am grateful for the program and the resources I have.

Posts 3249
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 2 2016 1:26 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):

we are giving Faithlife the respect of providing them with feedback

In general, perhaps we could be more respectful and constructive, and less critical or resentful?

I'll apologize to FL for being less Christlike. Christ forgave much. I should be able to forgive trivial matters. Sorry, FL owners and employees.

Posts 1649
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 2 2016 3:10 PM

Andrew116:
It's worth pointing out, Logos doesn't owe you any sales.

It is also worth pointing out that we don't owe Logos our business either. Without sales, I buy very little and have actually committed to buy even less since Faithlife Corp. has decided not to be the Logos of yesteryear. 

Within the last two days, I have cancelled some pre-pubs, downloaded a competitor's program and cancelled my Logos Now Subscription. I was a month-to-month subscriber and since they decided to go back on their promise of that model after a short period, I decided to not renew.

I kept some pre-pubs and will buy when I see something that I want but not often.

So yea, they don't owe me a sale but I don't owe them my business either. I'll go somewhere that does offer me incentives to buy.

Peace  Smile

Romans 14:19 (NRSV)
19 Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

Posts 1111
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 2 2016 3:26 PM

Andrew116:

I've noticed a bit of whinging on the forums about the level of discounts offered, the sorts of things that are on sale, etc.

It's worth pointing out, Logos doesn't owe you any sales. They are free to sell what they want at the prices they want. You can choose to buy elsewhere. That's how our market works.

Now, I'm first to say that there have been some shonky marketing practices, some very frustrating decisions (eg prepub stopping future sales), and some genuine problems with the way the website shows value etc.

Let's save our constructive criticism for the things that actually matter. The more we whinge about X or Y sale not being what we wanted, the more Faithlife will see us as people who will never be pleased, and ignore us

Thank you for showing us, from your superior vantage point, what we should and should not be thinking, feeling, and doing.

Do you have any more advice?

Posts 10210
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 2 2016 6:31 PM

Of course Logos doesn't 'owe' ... independent of their earlier marketing statements.

And the forum is likely a tiny fraction of their sales metrics ... you'd have to see the post-event data to see what customers actually did.

But customer frustration lies in a pricing policy that is difficult to understand. 'Used to', the premium prices ( and they are premium) were offset by 'oh wow' sales events.  And you knew the 'oh wow' would appear.  Now, you don't. Still got premium prices. And dynamic pricing, if you're already committed. Else?

Large retailers have tried to re-train customers from an earlier pricing policy ... very difficult to pull off, and almost no success stories. But again, you'd need to see data.


Posts 2831
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 2 2016 9:16 PM

Sean:
from your superior vantage point

Funny, that's exactly what I was thinking as I read the OP.

I suspect that's not how he intended to come across, but it was.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 2204
Forum MVP
John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2016 4:24 AM

Andrew, in the forums, like e mail, it can be difficult to interpret the tone of a post. I agree that from my perspective the tone of many posts can appear less than kind or considerate. However, as Denise posted, Logos has marketed their product through sales, and customers come to expect sales similar to what was offered in the past. Many customers save up looking forward to one of the many sales events to purchase resources for their libraries. When those sales are not what is expected, then there is disappointment.

I have been using Logos for a long time (the 90's) and have seen some changes in pricing and marketing during those years as required by changing market conditions and relations with publishers. In the end, we are blessed with an abundance.

As for those that are critical of your post, I think they may have miss interpreted your tone in the same way you may have misinterpreted some of theirs. I try my best to be soft hearted and thick skinned as opposed to the opposite. However, if you review my posts you will find I have occasionally failed in that personal policy. Keep posting your thoughts...

God bless.

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2016 8:52 AM

Of course, Logos does not owe anyone a sale.  Logos has sales for their benefit, namely, to increase sales and to move product that is not selling well. 

We should not whine, and we should remember (and I say this from 42 years personal experience)  that it is a professional hazard to always be tempted to lecture everyone on their attitudes.  Indeed, that is largely what preachers do for a living, and it is seldom appreciated.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 176
Al Het | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2016 9:58 AM

Sean:

Thank you for showing us, from your superior vantage point, what we should and should not be thinking, feeling, and doing.

Do you have any more advice?

Sean, it seems that this post hurt you or offended you in some way.  I'm quite sure the OP didn't mean to do that.  However, this comment of yours is entirely unhelpful and not appropriate.  It certainly is not becoming someone who describes himself as a "Theologian & Pastor."

Posts 72
Andrew116 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2016 12:13 PM

But I am sorry, point taken.

helpful discussion for me to see why people have reacted the way they have 

Posts 6474
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2016 1:58 PM

Posts 1953
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 3 2016 2:14 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):
We all know how the market works.  But as long term customers we are giving Faithlife the respect of providing them with feedback of why we have become disolutioned and disengaged

I found this to be a good comment on the current situation.  There are new customers obviously, but also long term customers who have seen trends...

I really enjoy the Logos program, and have been a loyal customer since L3.  Much has changed since those days...

Posts 26728
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 4 2016 1:37 AM

PetahChristian:
I have no idea how much FL needs to sell things for to be profitable, or how profitable they are.

Not current but the one I found first ....

Bob Pritchett:

What would a reasonable profit margin be? What profit margin does your friend think Logos has?

For what it's worth, I got our third-quarter financials earlier this week. For 2012 so far, the Logos profit margin was just about 0.38%. (Not 38%. Less than half of one percent.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 10574
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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 4 2016 4:05 AM

MJ. Smith:

Not current but the one I found first ....

Bob Pritchett:

What would a reasonable profit margin be? What profit margin does your friend think Logos has?

For what it's worth, I got our third-quarter financials earlier this week. For 2012 so far, the Logos profit margin was just about 0.38%. (Not 38%. Less than half of one percent.

Later in that same post, Bob explained that the reason for the low margin was development of Logos 5; he then added

I expect we'll end the year with solid single-digit profitability, and we've beaten that in the past.

I could not find the quote, but I think he said somewhere that the target margin was around 3-5%.

Posts 2280
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 5 2016 3:32 PM

Right now I'm absolutely overwhelmed with sales offers of all kinds. None of which I have the means to even consider. Fine by me.

The world needs the Savior not a sale.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 6474
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 5 2016 4:36 PM

Ah,  look at you! you even used alliteration 😜 (Savior, Sale).

 But you are right, though, the world needs a savior not a sale;  but then again as Logos users we wouldn't mind getting a sale  on resources that can help us study the Savior  😁👌👍✌️️

DAL

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