Vyrso unreleased Pre-Pub books - that were supposed to be released (sometimes months ago) ????

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 18 2016 10:01 AM

Kenute P. Curry:

Why wouldn't they make it to the LOGOS store PetahChristian ? Just combine LOGOS and VYRSO together; simple as that. The right thing to do would be not to let VYRSO run on automated processes

Combining both stores, or even the production process, is just not possible. 

The point is that Logos and Vyrso have radically different contracts between Faithlife and the book publishers. Basically the Vyrso contract works for the publisher like a contract with any ebook reseller out there - and it surely stipulates a "hands off, don't tamper with our content" clause. On the other hand, the automated process keeps cost down, so Vyrso can offer competitive prices (and a fast delivery - it takes years to make a Logos edition).  

What's more: many publishers are not interested in contracting for Logos versions. Whether they just think it's too complex, or a too small chunk of the overall volume to bother or other reasons is up to them. Others play both stores, but they have their reasons which books to send to Vyrso, too.

So for contractual reasons, Faithlife can't just combine those, or treat Vyrso books like they were Logos editions.

On the other hand, there's of course the financial factors. Logos books are more expensive than available ebook versions, which finds its reason in the complex and expensive production process. I've no idea whether the publishers get less per book from a Logos version or even more, but it will require a long wait until a Logos book is produced, which is absolute poison in today's business environment and may keep publishers from going the Logos route. 

So, as long as Vyrso exists, it gives an affordable way to get books into the Logos library that we otherwise would not see there at all.

It makes me sick to read disparaging comments about Vyrso books, and people seemingly asking for a shut-down of Vyrso. Those who don't want Vyrso books, are not obliged to buy them or even take notice of their existence.

Kenute P. Curry:
At least some one should be there to oversee and take care of VYRSO.
 

Yes, this is definitely true. Some things seem to need manual intervention, like being part of publisher's sales (and letting that slip throws a bad light at Faithlife, no arguments about it) and of answering quality-related posts in the forum.

While quality issues are rare and often overstated (even academic theological works usually work just fine in Vyrso, but will lack links from their cited sources to other Logos resources - which way too often will frustrate users of expensive Logos resources, too), leaving the impression that Faithlife just doesn't care would be bad. Thanks to Kyle for picking things up over here. 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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Kenute P. Curry | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 18 2016 10:44 AM

Thanks for the good explanation that you gave me NB.Mick

Just to make myself clear, I do not want VYRSO to shut down. I just want to see better quality and it being better operated as well. 

Now with books, I know that lots of times, it is the publisher who is at fault, as in the case of "THE BIBLE AND HOMOSEXUAL PRACTICES" by Robert A. J. Gagnon. I realize that in these cases all that FAITHLIFE can do is ask the publisher for "Updated files."

You really provided a very good explanation for me as to how VYRSO works, and I am very thankful for that. Just the same as you, I do not want VYRSO to be shut down: and have gotten a lot of good books from VYRSO. Just want to see it being run better, and with better quality.

Thank you again for the explanation. It is much appreciated.

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 18 2016 1:24 PM

NB.Mick:

It makes  me sick to read disparaging comments about Vyrso books, and people seemingly asking for a shut-down of Vyrso. Those who don't want Vyrso books, are not obliged to buy them or even take notice of their existence.

It makes me sick a lie  on the website Is used to sell the product. And I will not silence my concerns about this issue until the company correct this misinformation. Nobody wants Vyrso to be shutdown. But the action of the leadership of this company in the past was to shutdown poor quality low customer service third party operations. The question is why is it now ok for them to do this when then came down hard on others. 

Fix up the advertising, make a statement as to whether you are in or out of continung to make available the free books offered by David Cook, either answer is fine just give customers some clear communication and have someone regularly check these forums for qaulity issues that need to be addressed - because they are going to happen with the adopted model. Some MVP's like to think these forums at all about them but fact is customers will come here to get answers from the business. This is an international business, not all customers are going to phone, and not all customers are going to be satisfied with unanswered emails about qaulity issues. 

For those who don't want to face up to the way in which this business is getting customer service wrong you are not obliged to read the posts of those for whom honesty and integrity are still values they hold highly. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 18 2016 3:18 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):
posts of those for whom honesty and integrity are still values they hold highly. 

Excuse me but it is my observation that NB Mick holds honesty and integrity very highly. However, it has become apparent to me that a number of people in the forums define a lie differently than I do - I make a greater distinction between misinformation and lie - the latter requiring that the information be factually wrong, known by the speaker to be factually wrong, and delivered anyway with the intent to deceive.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5257
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 18 2016 4:02 PM

Excuse me MJ but I never referenced Mick or any other specific person but made a general comment in response to a general comment that Mick made. He too was careful not to target anyone specifically with his comment,

You on the other hand  have attempted to turn  these comments into applying to a specific person When they never did. Please go an recheck your logic .

MJ. Smith:

Disciple of Christ (doc):
posts of those for whom honesty and integrity are still values they hold highly. 

Excuse me but it is my observation that NB Mick holds honesty and integrity very highly. However, it has become apparent to me that a number of people in the forums define a lie differently than I do - I make a greater distinction between misinformation and lie - the latter requiring that the information be factually wrong, known by the speaker to be factually wrong, and delivered anyway with the intent to deceive.

Posts 273
Rev. Kelly Todd | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 18 2016 4:06 PM

For some time I have been fighting the temptation to say something.  Here is my issue.  We all want to trim our posts so that we don’t waste bandwidth, but at the same time, we very frequently don’t have a real clue as to what someone is responding to or replying too.  For example see below. There have been many posts the past couple of days that indicate that people are unhappy with how Vyrso is being abandoned, but the person below does not tell us exactly what he agrees with 100%.  Please leave a bit of the previous post in your reply so that we have clue as to what you are speaking of.  I certainly don’t keep all of the old posts so without some verbiage from the original post I can only guess as to what you are speaking of….

 now if I read everything from the forum it might be different, but I like many do not... I get all of your emails sent to my inbox and I read from there and then if I need to reply, I go to the forum.  please include the important part of the previous post!  thank you.

Off my soapbox…

Pastor Kelly Todd

Posts 273
Rev. Kelly Todd | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 18 2016 4:09 PM

good grief, I hit the quote button but it still does not allow me to include a part of the previous post.  faithlife needs to make this into a real forum and not a guessing game.

Rev. Kelly Todd:

For some time I have been fighting the temptation to say something.  Here is my issue.  We all want to trim our posts so that we don’t waste bandwidth, but at the same time, we very frequently don’t have a real clue as to what someone is responding to or replying too.  For example see below. There have been many posts the past couple of days that indicate that people are unhappy with how Vyrso is being abandoned, but the person below does not tell us exactly what he agrees with 100%.  Please leave a bit of the previous post in your reply so that we have clue as to what you are speaking of.  I certainly don’t keep all of the old posts so without some verbiage from the original post I can only guess as to what you are speaking of….

 now if I read everything from the forum it might be different, but I like many do not... I get all of your emails sent to my inbox and I read from there and then if I need to reply, I go to the forum.  please include the important part of the previous post!  thank you.

Off my soapbox…

Pastor Kelly Todd

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 18 2016 4:29 PM

Select the portion you wish to quote before hitting the quote button OR you can edit the quoted text in your response.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 18 2016 7:04 PM

I understand vyrso is a side project but all I want is some quality assurance with their products. It would be wonderful if someone could just check the books before they ship... Maybe flip through a few pages. Make sure photos are there and that it has a functional table of contents. I can buy the same product on Amazon for the same price and it doesn't have these errors and it has a table of contents so there must be a conversion problem.

I don't know what happened with David C Cook books but we always would get their sales and free books but this past month they have been ignored. Something is going on...

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 18 2016 7:10 PM

I do not think ignored is the right word since the DCC emails no longer list Vyrso as participating outlet leading one to believe there has been a request to be excluded. Which seems shear foolishness considering FL has said Vyrso is designed to compete with ebook retailers like Amazon. To not participate in publisher sales and such is to ensure your store quickly becomes secondary source at best.

-Dan

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Kenute P. Curry | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 18 2016 7:16 PM

Very good point Dan Francis Yes

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Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 18 2016 8:57 PM

Mattillo:

I understand vyrso is a side project but all I want is some quality assurance with their products. It would be wonderful if someone could just check the books before they ship... Maybe flip through a few pages. Make sure photos are there and that it has a functional table of contents. I can buy the same product on Amazon for the same price and it doesn't have these errors and it has a table of contents so there must be a conversion problem.

Since there are 23,000 books on Vyrso, that doesn't sound reasonable to me. Spending one minute on a book would mean someone would have to do almost two and a half months of quality checking.

And that poor fellow would surely get nightmares as a result as well.

I'm glad I've not lost my sense of humour over this topic.

Mattillo:
I don't know what happened with David C Cook books but we always would get their sales and free books but this past month they have been ignored. Something is going on...

Fixing that would be greatly appreciated!!

Seems we have all the right premises to expect the official go-live of the Noet eBook site soon... Zip it!

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Future Seminary Student.
Why Amazon sucks: Full background story of my legal dispute with the online giant

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Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 19 2016 4:00 AM

Jan Krohn:

Mattillo:

I understand vyrso is a side project but all I want is some quality assurance with their products. It would be wonderful if someone could just check the books before they ship...

Since there are 23,000 books on Vyrso, that doesn't sound reasonable to me. Spending one minute on a book would mean someone would have to do almost two and a half months of quality checking.

I meant for future releases

Posts 1355
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 19 2016 7:38 AM

Dan Francis:

I do not think ignored is the right word since the DCC emails no longer list Vyrso as participating outlet leading one to believe there has been a request to be excluded. Which seems shear foolishness considering FL has said Vyrso is designed to compete with ebook retailers like Amazon. To not participate in publisher sales and such is to ensure your store quickly becomes secondary source at best.

-Dan

In the past, when price match inquiries were made, the standard response that Vyrso participated in publisher discounts on ebooks in Vyrso. They did not match other vendors when it was not a publisher discount.

In recent months, that has not been the case. Vyrso is not even listed as a source by publishers like Cook.

Posts 3426
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 19 2016 10:39 AM

I wrote David Cook on facebook last week to ask about the problem and this is what they told me... "Thank you for asking! Yes, we are currently working with Vyrso to get our ebook deals back.  Hopefully they'll be back in-tune with us in a few weeks"

Posts 5262
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 19 2016 8:02 PM

Glad to hear this situation may be only a temporary one.

-Dan

Posts 739
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 2 2017 10:00 AM

I had 5 books in my Vyrso pre-pub order list that were supposed to have been released in the past 30 days, but just kept showing up with changing release dates. I finally figured out that these books were available, but not being released to me. I deleted all 5 books in my Vyrso list and my Logos pre-pub list, then I was able to order all 5 books in Vyrso for the same price. 1 was supposed to be .25, but was free. Vyrso isn't working properly, just delete your overdue pre-pubs and purchase them. It's the new normal I guess.

Dale Heath

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 2 2017 10:22 AM
Dale E Heath:

I had 5 books in my Vyrso pre-pub order list that were supposed to have been released in the past 30 days, but just kept showing up with changing release dates. I finally figured out that these books were available, but not being released to me. I deleted all 5 books in my Vyrso list and my Logos pre-pub list, then I was able to order all 5 books in Vyrso for the same price. 1 was supposed to be .25, but was free. Vyrso isn't working properly, just delete your overdue pre-pubs and purchase them. It's the new normal I guess.

Dale Heath

I had the same experience in December. Two Vyrso pre-pubs never shipped on their release date, although they were live on the store. If I tried to put those books in my cart, they were removed, saying I already owned them. I had to delete the pre-pubs, then buy them normally. Fortunately, the price was the same as the pre-pub.

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

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Michael McLane | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 2 2017 10:59 AM

Dale E Heath:
I had 5 books in my Vyrso pre-pub order list that were supposed to have been released in the past 30 days, but just kept showing up with changing release dates. I finally figured out that these books were available, but not being released to me. I deleted all 5 books in my Vyrso list and my Logos pre-pub list, then I was able to order all 5 books in Vyrso for the same price. 1 was supposed to be .25, but was free. Vyrso isn't working properly, just delete your overdue pre-pubs and purchase them. It's the new normal I guess.

You have got to be kidding me!!!!!  Super Angry

Really???  What in the world is going on over at Vyrso?

I had more than a few Vyrso pre-pubs just hanging there, some for over six months. I was very close to just buying the Kindle version. However, I bought only one and canceled the rest as I simply lost interest and decided I did not need them any longer. Are you trying to lose sales, Vyrso?

This makes FL look beyond amateurish. There are four pages in this thread with responses from FL employees. The appearance to me, in light of this discovery, is to wonder about the validity and sincerity of their responses and the truth of their efforts to solve the problem. I hope I am way off base in my assumptions and would love to apologize for mischaracterizing this situation.

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