Independent Clause Search

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Rafe Andersen | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jan 5 2017 7:24 PM

How would I use Logos to find the independent clauses in Philippians 2:5-11?

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 5 2017 8:52 PM

One idea is Discourse Grammar visual filters that shows sentence:

Screen shot also has "Inductive - Precept" and "Logos Greek Morphology" visual filters enabled.

OpenText Clause Analysis shows Philippians 2:5-11 has one Primary Clause (PC) with many Secondary Clause (SC) modifications.

Independent Clause: A group of related words that can stand as a simple sentence. When part of a sentence, an independent clause is also called the principal clause or the main clause.

Davis, W. H. (2005). Beginner’s grammar of the Greek New Testament (Revised and expanded edition, p. xxxiii). Eugene, OR: Wipf and Stock Publishers.

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Posts 873
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 5 2017 8:58 PM

Maybe try this resource (OpenText Clause Analysis): https://ref.ly/logosres/opentextgraph;ref=BibleNA27.Php2.5 

By clicking the button that looks like the interlinear icon, you can choose to only display clauses or whatever you want to see.

But understand that the question does not make as much sense in Greek as in English: http://www.opentext.org/model/guidelines/clause/0-1.html 

EDIT: KS4J made a much better response while I was finding the second link, which you should still read.

Posts 87
Rafe Andersen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 6 2017 1:39 PM

Thank you for the help. I am still not sure how to find what I need though. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 6 2017 1:58 PM

Rafe Andersen:
I am still not sure how to find what I need though. 

Could you explain a bit further what you intend to do with the information? As was mentioned above, the OpenText clause analysis gives only one independent (primary) clause for the entire segment. The Lexham Syntactic Greek New Testament: SBL Edition shows two independent (primary) clauses (5-8, 9-11). So the number depends upon how you are defining independent clause for your purposes.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 87
Rafe Andersen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 6 2017 2:00 PM

I understand. I am reading a book on expository preaching and it called for identifying the independent and dependent clauses in epistolary passages to make an outline. I have to find some way to do that. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 6 2017 2:23 PM

Rafe Andersen:
it called for identifying the independent and dependent clauses in epistolary passages to make an outline

Okay, for that purpose it doesn't matter that there is no agreement. What you will normally want to do is use whichever clause visualization resource is in your library.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 87
Rafe Andersen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 6 2017 2:40 PM

Being that I have no idea how to use them, all 4 that I have are no use to me.  Thanks for trying to help. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 6 2017 4:15 PM

I've sent a message to Logos Pro to see if they are interested in doing some training in this area. They aren't hard to learn to use.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 6 2017 5:40 PM

Rafe Andersen:

I am reading a book on expository preaching and it called for identifying the independent and dependent clauses in epistolary passages to make an outline. I have to find some way to do that. 

The Lexham Discourse Bible (8 vols.) uses indentation to show independent and dependent clauses.

Left most "Sentence" by Philippians 2:5 is the independent clause. Indented Sentence, Elaboration, Principle, Sub-Point, and Bullet are the dependent clauses. Visually outline appears in left margin. Logos Now and Verbum Now include Discourse Greek and Discourse Hebrew datasets, which can be used in any Bible with appropriate tagging: e.g. Reverse Interlinears.

The Discourse features (Greek) Propositions shows clause analysis in left margin:

For screen shot, unchecked all other discourse markings and footnote indicators so Discourse proposition outline of Philippians 2:5-11 is easier to see.

Greek discourse analysis includes word placed with emphasis in bold and circumstantial (background) words in grey:

Philippians 2:6 includes background information with words placed for emphasis. Greek spelling shows grammatical usage so words can be moved for emphasis. Screen shows Discourse features (Greek):

  • Propositions
  • Main Focus Clause
  • Emphasis (Main Clause-Other)
  • Emphasis (Subordinate Clause)
  • Nominative Circumstantial Frame
  • Genitive Circumstantial Frame
  • Dative Circumstantial Frame

Logos Pro videos => https://www.logos.com/logos-pro include Discourse Datasets and Visual Filters

Syntax graphs also show independent and dependent clauses with indentation:

Different syntax graphs reflect human scholar disagreement about sentence boundaries, which includes independent and dependent clauses.

Another way for working with clauses is a Sentence Diagram document.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 7 2017 11:41 AM

Rafe Andersen:
I am reading a book on expository preaching and it called for identifying the independent and dependent clauses in epistolary passages to make an outline. I have to find some way to do that. 

Propositional Outline also indents dependent clauses:

Logos Pro => https://www.logos.com/logos-pro includes video about New Testament Propositional Outlines => https://www.logos.com/logos-pro/new-testament-propositional-outlines

New Testament Propositional Bible Outlines Dataset is included in Full Feature Sets, Now membership, Cloud subscription, ...

Can combine New Testament Propositional Bible Outline with Discourse features (Greek) for emphasis and background

Discourse features (Greek) has six items checked:

  • Main Focus Clause
  • Emphasis (Main Clause-Other)
  • Emphasis (Subordinate Clause)
  • Nominative Circumstantial Frame
  • Genitive Circumstantial Frame
  • Dative Circumstantial Frame

Rafe Andersen:
Being that I have no idea how to use them, all 4 that I have are no use to me.

Personally use Syntax Graphs for Syntax Searching, which can be a bit challenging. Logos wiki has => A Strategy for Syntax Search and Setting up a Syntax Search

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Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 9 2017 9:12 AM

MJ. Smith:

I've sent a message to Logos Pro to see if they are interested in doing some training in this area. [Clause Visualizations] aren't hard to learn to use.

Thanks for alerting us of this, MJ. 

Rafe, we don't have any training specifically on how to read Clause Visualizations, but we recently released a series of tutorials on Syntax Search, of which video #3 addresses the use of Clause Visualization resources. (Scroll to the bottom of that page to see all the videos.) 

I agree with others above, that OpenText.org Clauses will be the easiest to understand for this task if you are new to syntactic analysis. 

Since you are tasked with making an outline, you might also use a Sentence Diagram document in Logos. This video, taken from our new 30-day Challenge series, shows you an example: https://logos.wistia.com/medias/1j1tm44dpp

I hope that helps. 

Adam Borries | Product Manager, Logos desktop application

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