Another extended full feature set, really?

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This post has 95 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 496
SteveHD | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 3 2017 7:44 PM

Catherine:

I am lost. The prices seem completely random. I can't understand how it is lawful to have a price system so complicated that a reasonable and intelligent person can't get around with. And besides, it sounds to me that the pricing is not fair at all (let alone to be disadvantaged to have bought early. So happy I didn't do it). I might be wrong of course, but it's the impression I get (and I am VERY puzzled about that)

I like it very much because, as my screen shot above shows, I only pay for what it is new to me even if resources I already own are in the set. If the set price was always the exact same fixed amount for everyone then I would never upgrade a thing since I would be repaying for items contained in that set I already own. Wouldn't want it any other way.

There were some people above who had the wrong impression and realized their error. You will see them correcting themselves shortly after.

Call the number and work with a rep in person so they can better help you.

Posts 6
Catherine | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 3 2017 7:55 PM

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I am still not sold on how the concept is applied and explained. But it's nice to see that some people appreciate it.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 4 2017 12:46 AM

Catherine:

I am lost. The pricing seems completely random. I can't understand how it is lawful to have a price system that is so complicated that a reasonable and intelligent person can't get around with it. And besides, it sounds to me that the pricing is not fair at all (let alone the fact that it seem to be disadvantageous to have bought the product early. So happy I didn't). I might be wrong of course, but it's sincerely the impression I get (and I am VERY puzzled about that). Wilted Flower 

I do not follow. Can you explain your situation and why you think this is the case?

OSX & iOS | Mac Logs | PC LogsInstall

Posts 924
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 4 2017 4:24 AM

Catherine:
I am lost. The pricing seems completely random.

I can understand why someone would think pricing is random, but there is a method to the madness. As has already been mentioned, Faithlife  (thankfully) does not make you pay for the same item twice. If you already own 80% of what is included in a package, you only pay for the 20% that is new to you. Additional discounts are available to those who subscribe to Logos Now, buy a library at the same time as a feature set, qualify and have been approved for an academic discount, etc. If you ever wonder how your specific price is calculated, one simple way is to click on the "i" with a circle around it next to the price shown on the product page on the website. If it says "dynamic discount," that is savings for items you already own. There is also (through February 6) a "special introductory discount" for all Logos 7 packages. If you want even more information about pricing, call or email Faithlife and talk to a sales rep. If you want help on the forums, it is best to start a new thread and we will do what we can to help. Although I still strongly disagree with the Bible Browser Tool not being included in the "Full Feature Set," I very thankful Faithlife gives the discounts they do, even if it makes pricing more complex than it otherwise would be.

Posts 931
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 4 2017 4:36 AM

I'm not even so worried about the prices as figuring out what on earth I'm buying... I've subscribed to Logos Now. I have looked at 'upgrading' to Logos 7, but I'm suffering from choice paralysis. Still I'm enjoying using the software which appears to be flying in terms of speed recently!

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 4 2017 1:24 PM

John Goodman:
I'm not even so worried about the prices as figuring out what on earth I'm buying... I've subscribed to Logos Now

Don't worry about what to buy when you have Logos Now. If you buy the Extended Feature Set you still won't own all the features of LN, but you might get some new resources/books (as per the product page  "New to you"). Full Feature Set only has a few resources/books. If you want to own features or get some new resources then buy before Monday 6th.

Dave
===

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Posts 910
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 6 2017 7:47 AM

I subscribed to Logos Now when Logos 7 was released but have considered not renewing and buying the Full Feature Set instead.

The FFS today would cost me $121.84. The Extended Feature Set would be $207.56, which, if I understand correctly, would include owning the FFS as well as those features in the EFS. Am I correct?

And the price of each (FFS and EFS) increases tomorrow, right?

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 9813
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 6 2017 8:54 AM

Bill, I don't think EFS includes FFS. I have FFS and EFS was still a sizable amount. But I don't know. Given the discounting timing, I'd use the 1-800 choice ... pretty hefty amounts. Just my 2 pennies.


Posts 2090
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 6 2017 9:28 AM

Denise:

Bill, I don't think EFS includes FFS. I have FFS and EFS was still a sizable amount. But I don't know. Given the discounting timing, I'd use the 1-800 choice ... pretty hefty amounts. Just my 2 pennies.

On the FFS product page it says that the FFS is included in the EFS: https://www.logos.com/product/120029/logos-7-full-feature-set

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Future Seminary Student.
Why Amazon sucks: Full background story of my legal dispute with the online giant

Posts 910
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 6 2017 9:29 AM

Denise:

Bill, I don't think EFS includes FFS. I have FFS and EFS was still a sizable amount. But I don't know. Given the discounting timing, I'd use the 1-800 choice ... pretty hefty amounts. Just my 2 pennies.

Thanks, Denise. If I put the FFS in my cart, I get a price of a price of $121.84 with the note "Special Logos 7 savings for Logos Now members."

If I then add the EFS to the cart, the FFS is replaced with the EFS, the price is increased to $207.56, and the note "Special Logos 7 savings for Logos Now members" remains.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 910
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 6 2017 9:30 AM

Jan Krohn:

On the FFS product page it says that the FFS is included in the EFS: https://www.logos.com/product/120029/logos-7-full-feature-set

Aha. Thanks, Jan. That confirms, it seems, what my cart seemed to be saying.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 910
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 6 2017 6:46 PM

Am I correct in assuming that, as a Logos Now subscriber, there is little reason to buy the extended feature set other than as a hedge against not being able to continue to subscribe down the road?

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 1311
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 6 2017 6:53 PM

Bill Moore:

Am I correct in assuming that, as a Logos Now subscriber, there is little reason to buy the extended feature set other than as a hedge against not being able to continue to subscribe down the road?

That's how it seems to me unless there are resources included with it that you'd like to have and make the price of the EFS worth while.

Posts 910
Bill Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 6 2017 7:13 PM

Thanks, Rick. I was going to purchase the full feature set and not renew my Logos Now subscription later this year, and then I saw this extended feature set and almost bought it. I don't see enough useful-to-me resources to justify the price.

You can spend a lot of money trying to cover all the what-ifs.

Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC

Posts 30
Matt Gubala | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 7 2017 7:41 AM

I do enjoy the ability to download the free book of the month

Smile

Posts 521
Russ White | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 9 2017 12:44 PM

Given all the confusion in the thread over pricing, I thought maybe a review of how I decide to, or not, buy a package in Logos might be useful. 

1. I change to the "new to you" view.

2. Copy what's in this view to a spreadsheet. I create a line in the spreadsheet just below the list.

3. Search for each resource in acrchive.net and books.google to see if there is a public domain full text version of the work. Each of these I move below the line; the tagging available in Logos really isn't worth the money charged for it. I can search these works for free, and even download pdf versions to read and/or search en masse.

4. Examine the remaining titles above the line. Any title I would not use for future research or reading goes below the line, as well. I don't consider products I'm never going to use to part of the "value" in the value proposition in Logos. If they're just going to bump my search result from 10 pages to 11, with no appreciable increase in actual information, then they are actually wasting my time, rather than adding value. I am pretty strict in this area, BTW -- I am very careful not to buy things I do not think I will use in the future.

5. For the products remaining above the line, I rate each one, using a .9 for "would be something I would use in research (not reading!)," 1 for "would read this, even if I wouldn't find searching it all that useful," and 2/3/4/etc. for "might be useful, or nice to have."

6. I divide the average rating (above) into the Logos cost. This is my final "value" in Logos format.

7. I go to another seller of electronic books and look each one up. I often check the original publisher's site, as well, etc., as there are often places to get books in PDF format at a lower cost.

8. I put the price of each item above the line next to the item itself.

9. I sum the costs of the books "off Logos." This is my total "outside cost."

If this outside cost is less than the calculated value in Logos, I do not buy the package in Logos.

I have found developing a process like this helps me ignore the "sale, super sale, no really on sale, really really really on sale," mentality of Logos sales, and makes me focus on what I would really use, and in what format it would be the most useful. It gets me out of thinking "can I build a really big library," and makes me focus on "can I build a useful library." I've not weighted heavily in favor of Logos for search and tools at this point, because I find Logos a mediocre piece of software in its current form -- Faithlife does not even bother trying to integrate with other software packages beyond a very minimal level; the search tools are fair, but not stellar; Faithlife doesn't respect my privacy as a user; and the biblo information is wrong often enough to force me to rebuild all the information taken out of Logos as a ref by hand anyway.

If Faithlife ever starts paying attention to users, the value of having a resource in Logos might increase; in this case, I could simply add a multiplier to the final value above to say "this is worth more just because it is in Logos," or I could decrease the .9 to .8, or something lower. Right now, there isn't any additional value "within Logos" or "outside Logos" I can see, other than the guides and tools, so actual research works get a 10% boost for being in Logos (effectively, I'm willing to pay 10% more for them inside Logos because they integrate with the tools).

Using something like this might help folks think harder about what they are buying and why, and to ignore the Faithlife marketing fluff (which I often consider borderline unethical, particularly the pricing system designed to push you into calling, where they can again push you into buying things you don't really need). Don't try to figure the pricing out. Just think about what you might use, and what you might not. If the resources you would use are not public domain, and are worth the price, then buy it. If they are not, then don't. 

Russ

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