Tyndale OT and NT Commentaries

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 1 2009 9:52 PM

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Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 120
Steve Robinson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 1 2009 10:05 PM

As one who also had a posting regarding the Rejoice Software offer deleted, (which I queried about in a separate post), I appreciate that the mystery has seemingly been solved. Thanks for the insight to help me better understand.

From my perspective, while I wish that Logos would just state the general guidelines somewhere (a practice of many other forums) such as in their FAQ section, I too know whose sandbox I'm playing in and I respect that. As a believer in business for 25 years before entering the ministry full-time I have absolutely no problem with Logos limiting our redirecting people via the forum to other sites for software purchases.  For me, it wasn't so much the "what," but the "how" that troubled me as a loyal customer of Logos, having my input deleted without any warning, comment or explanation.

That said, it is what it is and doesn't in the least change my appreciation for their products or how they have helped me in both my personal spiritual growth and equipping me for more effective ministry. Thanks Logos!

 

 

Posts 3661
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 1 2009 10:10 PM

Matthew C Jones:
And while there may be several  "dans" at Logos, there is one "DAN" that happens to be named Pritchett, and happens to be the other programmer who started Logos with the more visible Bob Pritchett who happens to be DAN's brother.     So, I'd guess we are going to have to learn to tolerate when Dan@Logos.com deletes postings in this forum. 

Dan Pritchett has been very helpful to me in the past - for that I am grateful.  However, that does not mean that I need to like or appreciate every decision that he or Logos makes.  Similarly, I like Amazon, but when I saw that they deleted books off of the Kindle (even though I do not own a Kindle), I thought it was a poor decision.  So did they eventually - but if no one had spoken up, then they would not have changed their policies (as I understand they did).

Maybe it is time for Logos to put their forum policies in writing rather than letting us just stumble on them by accident.  

Blessings,

Floyd

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 1 2009 10:28 PM

Matthew C Jones:

Alex Scott:
Well, if we're going to have to tolerate the Dans of Logos.com,

 

In case you are not aware, Logos is a privately held company, meaning they can do pretty much anything they want without geting permission.

And while there may be several  "dans" at Logos, there is one "DAN" that happens to be named Pritchett, and happens to be the other programmer who started Logos with the more visible Bob Pritchett who happens to be DAN's brother.     So, I'd guess we are going to have to learn to tolerate when Dan@Logos.com deletes postings in this forum.  Embarrassed

Are you sure of your information?  I was thinking that Dan was Bob's fother and that Bob and some other fellow who seems to have dropped out for whatever reason were the programmers who started Logos.  i could very well be wrong, but that is my understanding.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 1 2009 10:37 PM

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Dan Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 12:44 AM

Hi everyone, my name is Dan Pritchett. 

I am the Vice President of Marketing and Business Development, (yes “Bob’s brother”), and while you may not see my name pop up in the forums or newsgroups, I have actually been stalking the newsgroups and forums since they have been in place. ...and if you have ever read a “Logos NewsWire” you’ve been hearing from me for years, since I have written about 90% of every NewsWire we have ever sent.  Big Smile

As you may have noticed, I try to stay far away from jumping into the newsgroups or forums as much as humanly possible. I find that usually every issue that comes up takes care of itselfand I am sure you would rather I spent my time making sure we were putting out more titles, than jumping into every topic here. Even writing this post puts me in danger of being pulled into future discussions... but I decided to make a special exception tonight. Maybe because there is so much of my name on this topic, maybe because I am working late on a Saturday night and I don't have any sense not to jump in, maybe because I do feel that this is an important topic to weigh in on before it gets out of hand.

First, let me say that I need to respect the president's wishes in everything as much as I can (while still realizing that I can take him in a wrestling match, can you say “noogie, noogie, noogie?”).

Bob has made it abundantly clear that he hates policies. To be 100% honest, I love them! This is something we wrestle with all the time. As you can imagine it is a challenge to implement Bob's vision for this while all the time I am screaming inside wishing I could set policy.

This is a perfect case and point. There is no list of "rules" for the forums. I really want one. Really. Really, really, really want one. ...but I can't have it, and I have to live with that. ...and if I have to live with that, you do too... Big Smile

Without creating rules, let me just give you a few things to think about.

We love our customers.

Everyone in our company has a mandate to provide the best customer service in the universe.

We try hard to make as many customers as possible happy. Will we fail? Yes. 100% guaranteed. There is no way to make everyone happy all the time, but we really try hard.

We are very responsive to feedback. We listen to our customers more than just about any company you can think of, and as we continue to grow, we have made it a priority to continue to find ways to not outgrow our customer-centric focus. We have almost 200 employees now, and yet still the President, Vice President and almost the entire staff are constantly listening to feedback and reachable by anyone. How many companies our size can say the same?

Our desire to limit rules and policies is not only a business philosophy that Bob feels strongly about, it is a testament to the godly character of our user base and their desire to live biblically. With the Bible as their guide the need for our rules or policies is dramatically reduced.

For those of you who hate the forums, sorry. I am the one to blame.  Big Smile Understanding this move to forums will help you see why I got my trigger finger all over the delete button today. At the risk of turning this into a new discussion on forums vs. newsgroups let me explain, and leave it at that.

I love Internet marketing, SEO, SMO, and all things related to making sure as many people as possible discover Logos Bible Software and become customers for life. The move to forums can help more of our customers get information, support, and information about our software, but it also does some very important things for us in terms of search engine optimization. By creating a large body of content all related to our product and our category, we are increasing the likelihood that a relevant search on the Internet will turn up a result for our site.

In exchange for this benefit we had to expose our entire user contributed content base to the world. In the old days of newsgroups it was bad form to use our newsgroup to promote the competition, and we would from time to time chime in and suggest that it would be kinder not to use our own group as a way to enrich our competition. However, bad form as it may be it was easy to not get too upset about it because in the newsgroup there was no permanent web-based home for the links or even the comments.

In the forums, it is a totally new ballgame. A post in the forums has the potential to live forever. Exposed to searches, views, casual reading, topic threads, and most importantly—the algorithms that the search engines use to rank every site in the world. Without going into a course on SEO, link building strategies, Google PR, weight, and context relevance and anchor text optimization, let me just say that the main reason I do not like links to the competition is due to how that impacts the search engines for us and particularly for them.

Aside from the complicated SEO reasons, just think for a moment about posting about or linking to the competition in general. Here are a few analogies:

Mentioning the name of a competitor on our newsgroup and suggesting people go buy the product there is like walking into McDonalds and telling every customer that Burger King has burgers too, and they should go there sometime.

Posting a link to the competition on our newsgroup is like going into the same McDonalds and telling people you have a bus in the parking lot ready to take them to Burger King right now, and for those that can’t make the bus or who aren’t in McDonalds at that moment you have installed a moving walkway that will permanently be located at the McDonalds’ cash register which will whisk people away to Burger King instead. Right next to the moving walkway you install a billboard for Burger King just in case they don’t see the moving walkway.  Big Smile

Okay, that was a lot of fun for my own entertainment—yes, and I know at least one person reading this will be chomping at the bit to pick apart my analogy, but the point is—it is not just about mentioning that we live in a free market, it is actually finding a way to encourage our customers who are gathering in our place of business to leave our business and go elsewhere. In some cases to buy the exact same thing we are selling, and in other cases, to spend money on other things that they might have spent with us. Either way, not exactly over the top nice.

Are there forum rules? Nope. I wish there were, but there aren’t. Does Logos own the forums and control and care deeply about what is posted there, what is edited, and what is deleted? Yes. We are trying to be as open and transparent as possible. There are all kinds of things posted on the forums that we would prefer not to have posted there, and we don’t want to play “Big Brother”.  At the same time, we hope our users will respect the fact that they are posting on our site and try to have a little mercy, grace, and patience with us. This topic aside, just from years of reading the newsgroups and now forums, we are a very passionate company that really does care about the relationship we have with our customers, and it hurts to see people demanding answers, asserting “rights”, questioning our ethics, and making huge leaps and assumptions when we don’t instantly address an issue that they have decided was important enough for us to drop everything we are doing and give full disclosure of private business matters, relationships, contracts, marketing plans…

We cannot always respond to questions, and I am sure you can understand how painful it must be to watch people drag our name through the mud while we are forced to silently watch and listen. There have been times when we have been told by lawyers representing a publisher that we were not allowed to say why we pulled a product for example. We were ordered not to even address the issue, and it was more painful than you can imagine to watch people accuse us of all manner of evil and use our own channels of communication against us. That really hurt.

In the case of the Tyndale Commentaries here, I am sure it must be very confusing, because there is a Libronix edition, and we are actually producing the product in our building here (although IVP-UK is “boxing” it). Why have we not addressed the issue! I can’t tell you right now, and that is frustrating, but I can tell you that if you keep watching the pre-pub page you will see it soon.

Well, it is almost 12:30 AM and I am really tired from a long evening of work, I am sure due to the hour I may have said more or less than intended or prudent, but I hope you understand our heart. We love you, we listen to you, we want to be there for you for the rest of our lives and the rest of yours. We have given everything to this endeavor and we will fight to make sure you can continue to grow nearer and dearer to God through the study of His precious revealed Word with everything we do.

One final note:

At the time of writing, there are still several posts on this thread that mention the competition, accuse Logos of bad behavior, threaten us, and are generally unkind. I considered helping everyone start with a clean slate by blowing away the thread, replying to Scott’s first post with “Yeah, check the pre-pub page next week” and leaving it at that… but I wanted to swallow my pride and my hurt feelings and allow each individual to determine for themselves which comments they felt like leaving in place and which they wanted to delete, after all… there are no rules on the forums.  

-Dan 

Dan Pritchett, VP Marketing & Business Development
Logos Research Systems, Inc.
1313 Commercial St., Bellingham WA 98225-4307
Voice (360) 685-2335 FAX (360) 527-1707  dan@logos.com
http://www.logos.com

 

Posts 120
Steve Robinson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 1:16 AM

Thanks, Dan. Message received and appreciated.

Steve

P.S. Did you know that you can add a picture on the Logos profile page? That gray silhouette just doesn't do you justice. :^]

Posts 150
Jim Dean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 3:31 AM

THANK YOU, Dan!

And, my sympathies Wink

=============
Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ...
Jim Dean

Posts 3173
Whyndell Gizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 4:49 AM

You can delete all my post they are not important, but this is....

Posted by Dan

 " In the case of the Tyndale Commentaries here, I am sure it must be very confusing, because there is a Libronix edition, and we are actually producing the product in our building here (although IVP-UK is “boxing” it). Why have we not addressed the issue! I can’t tell you right now, and that is frustrating, but I can tell you that if you keep watching the pre-pub page you will see it soon."

This could have been posted in response to the first inquiry and nothing else would have been written, enough said.

Posts 2736
Bohuslav Wojnar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 5:46 AM

DanPritchett:
In the case of the Tyndale Commentaries here, I am sure it must be very confusing, because there is a Libronix edition, and we are actually producing the product in our building here (although IVP-UK is “boxing” it). Why have we not addressed the issue! I can’t tell you right now, and that is frustrating, but I can tell you that if you keep watching the pre-pub page you will see it soon.

I really appreciate your honest and open response. I really like this kind of people. I honor you for that and feel really good about being the customer of your company. I am glad to get some insight into the matter because I felt so innocent with my post (saying actually that I will wait for your Pre-pub. but with quote of course) that after I noticed the post doesn't exist I got confused and blamed my 50 year old memory Smile. Part of the reason was that I thought we are talking all the time about your product. I wrongly assumed that by seeing your Libronix logo on that. Well, I am glad to know better now. I have no reason to go anywhere else to buy my Logos resources. I want to buy them at the source. That is always you for me. Thank you again for your (late night) post. I appreciate that. God bless you.

Bohuslav

Posts 5613
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 6:38 AM

DanPritchett:
In the case of the Tyndale Commentaries here, I am sure it must be very confusing, because there is a Libronix edition, and we are actually producing the product in our building here (although IVP-UK is “boxing” it).

Color me confused.  Does this have something to do with the relationship between IVP-USA and IVP-UK?  I've never understood their relationship and why they aren't more coordinated.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 8:56 AM

Thanks for your explanation and the time involved in posting. I was not really following the post, but when I heard that you had posted, I decided to read it.

Appreciate your commitment to customer satisfaction.

Yes! I would prefer you to focus on getting the product out to us than constantly posting in the News Group.

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Posts 1928
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 12:29 PM

DanPritchett:
Hi everyone, my name is Dan Pritchett. 

Dan, responses like this add another reason why I am a very loyal Logos customer. I hope one of these days when I am in the Seattle area that I can pop by and meet some of you!

Posts 1934
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 12:40 PM

Great help, Dan.  Thanks for the note

Posts 390
Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 12:58 PM

Dan,

Thanks for the response

It adds some perspective to the issue and explains a lot.

Alain

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 1:37 PM

Alain Maashe:

Dan,

Thanks for the response

It adds some perspective to the issue and explains a lot.

Alain

Sometimes I wonder why such responses are required.  I thought the points Dan made were so obvious that they didn't need to be stated since everyone would already be aware of the facts.  This is Logos' site, and, while Rejoice is hopefully not an enemy, they certainly aren't Logos. 

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1355
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 2:33 PM

Dan,

Thank you for the great detailed response. Those on the "outside" of a situation are usually not aware of all the facts known by those on the "inside." So often, we criticize without considering that.

I appreciate the corporate philosophy of Logos and the priority it places on serving their customers. We get so spoiled that we often get a little greedy, wanting even more. The Logos business plan has served Logos and the Logos customers well.

Keep up the great work!  

Posts 2774
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 2:47 PM
Thanks for the good post Dan. I know some folks get bent on stuff like this, but many have not run a business, so the legal constraints are foreign to them... no need to take those kinds of complaints personally.

BTW, I think you used to be my sales agent back in the mid 90's when I got started with Logos? Maybe not, but I can't help but thinking you were my rep.

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 2:58 PM

DanPritchett:
Posting a link to the competition on our newsgroup is like going into the same McDonalds and telling people you have a bus in the parking lot ready to take them to Burger King right now, and for those that can’t make the bus or who aren’t in McDonalds at that moment you have installed a moving walkway that will permanently be located at the McDonalds’ cash register which will whisk people away to Burger King instead. Right next to the moving walkway you install a billboard for Burger King just in case they don’t see the moving walkway. 

Thanks for the info Dan. Although it shouldn't have been necessary, it's your house, and we are only guests. There are just a couple of points that I'm a bit unclear on.

If I do go to McDonald's, can I go to Burger King on the same day? And what if I also wanted something from Wendy's or Subway?

 

(sorry, I just couldn't resist Smile)

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 108
David Fish | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 2 2009 3:53 PM

I also appreciate your reply, Dan. I have purchased Libronix products off-site when more convenient, but have spent much more money directly with the company. I'll look forward to seeing this package on the Logos Pre-Pub site.

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