PRE-PUB in Danger--fortress studies on passages in the gospels

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This post has 56 Replies | 1 Follower

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 3:10 AM | Locked
It's GREEN!!!! You did it Dan! Now let's hope nobody pulls out 👍
Posts 528
Glenn Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 6:09 AM | Locked

DAL:
It's GREEN!!!! You did it Dan! Now let's hope nobody pulls out 👍

Agreed - good work, Dan Big Smile

Pastor Glenn Crouch
St Paul's Lutheran Church
Kalgoorlie-Boulder, Western Australia

Posts 861
LogosEmployee
Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 9:23 AM | Locked

Disciple of Christ (doc):

Ben I tried not to make imy initial comment on this issue about you as an individual, another customer brought you as an individual directly into the comment. But now you have come at me as an individual and have been unfair by taking my comments about FL's actions since you announced this title was in danger of being cancelled and suggested I was talking about FL's actions from the time this, and other titles were added as pre-pubs. You don't have to agree with my views but twisting my words is not an appropriate way to respond to our difference of view.

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):

Disciple of Christ (doc):

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):

Dan Francis:

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):
I'm sorry for the confusion.

No backsies... Stick out tongue

Will try to convince more but not sure it will happen but God willing we will get it through.

-dan

It's really close again. I think with a little push we can get this over before 3/20.

There is no FL in 'we' of this effort Ben, it has been Dan doing all the hard work. FL will only be remembered by customers as the grinches who removed this offering when it was so close if Dan's efforts don't get this set over the iine.

Where are the regular blog posts highlighting the value of these titles that FL are set to execute ? Those blog posts will potentially reach a customer audience beyond the forums that Dan on his own can not reach, not only vai the web but they will appear on the home pages of users who have blog posts turned on in the software.  

FL are not in a position to be claiming 'we' when they have done very little to actually get this or other titles over the line that they are going to remove from the prepub page very soon.

Perhaps that was a misused pronoun, I wasn't trying to make an intentional statement. You're right that in this case the success of this collection is largely due to Dan's efforts.

However, I don't think it's fair to say that we haven't done anything to promote this collection (or other collections that we are planning to cancel). This book has been up on pre-pub for almost 2 years. We've promoted it through the same channels we promote every other pre-pub. Further, we posted a notification here on the forum and are sending out some more emails informing customers that if they don't get their orders in this product it will be cancelled. Part of the philosophy of pre-pub is that if we don't get enough orders to produce a book, we don't produce it.

It is in our best interest to get this collection produced. Cancelling it means cancelling the revenue attached to all the pre-pub orders. However, we've learned over the past few years that it's important to not let titles linger on pre-pub for too long.

I am very sorry if anything I said felt like I was attacking you as an individual. That was not my intention at all. Please accept my apologies.

Manager, Bible Study Products Department

Posts 120
DBR | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 9:50 AM | Locked

Disciple of Christ (doc):

Ben I tried not to make imy initial comment on this issue about you as an individual, another customer brought you as an individual directly into the comment. But now you have come at me as an individual and have been unfair by taking my comments about FL's actions since you announced this title was in danger of being cancelled and suggested I was talking about FL's actions from the time this, and other titles were added as pre-pubs. You don't have to agree with my views but twisting my words is not an appropriate way to respond to our difference of view.

?????

Posts 4879
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 4:14 PM | Locked

Apology accepted Ben.

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):

Disciple of Christ (doc):

Ben I tried not to make imy initial comment on this issue about you as an individual, another customer brought you as an individual directly into the comment. But now you have come at me as an individual and have been unfair by taking my comments about FL's actions since you announced this title was in danger of being cancelled and suggested I was talking about FL's actions from the time this, and other titles were added as pre-pubs. You don't have to agree with my views but twisting my words is not an appropriate way to respond to our difference of view.

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):

Disciple of Christ (doc):

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):

Dan Francis:

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):
I'm sorry for the confusion.

No backsies... Stick out tongue

Will try to convince more but not sure it will happen but God willing we will get it through.

-dan

It's really close again. I think with a little push we can get this over before 3/20.

There is no FL in 'we' of this effort Ben, it has been Dan doing all the hard work. FL will only be remembered by customers as the grinches who removed this offering when it was so close if Dan's efforts don't get this set over the iine.

Where are the regular blog posts highlighting the value of these titles that FL are set to execute ? Those blog posts will potentially reach a customer audience beyond the forums that Dan on his own can not reach, not only vai the web but they will appear on the home pages of users who have blog posts turned on in the software.  

FL are not in a position to be claiming 'we' when they have done very little to actually get this or other titles over the line that they are going to remove from the prepub page very soon.

Perhaps that was a misused pronoun, I wasn't trying to make an intentional statement. You're right that in this case the success of this collection is largely due to Dan's efforts.

However, I don't think it's fair to say that we haven't done anything to promote this collection (or other collections that we are planning to cancel). This book has been up on pre-pub for almost 2 years. We've promoted it through the same channels we promote every other pre-pub. Further, we posted a notification here on the forum and are sending out some more emails informing customers that if they don't get their orders in this product it will be cancelled. Part of the philosophy of pre-pub is that if we don't get enough orders to produce a book, we don't produce it.

It is in our best interest to get this collection produced. Cancelling it means cancelling the revenue attached to all the pre-pub orders. However, we've learned over the past few years that it's important to not let titles linger on pre-pub for too long.

I am very sorry if anything I said felt like I was attacking you as an individual. That was not my intention at all. Please accept my apologies.

Posts 1958
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 4:48 AM | Locked

David Ruley:

Disciple of Christ (doc):

Ben I tried not to make imy initial comment on this issue about you as an individual, another customer brought you as an individual directly into the comment. But now you have come at me as an individual and have been unfair by taking my comments about FL's actions since you announced this title was in danger of being cancelled and suggested I was talking about FL's actions from the time this, and other titles were added as pre-pubs. You don't have to agree with my views but twisting my words is not an appropriate way to respond to our difference of view.

?????

That's what I'm saying.  There was absolutely nothing in Ben's statement that even remotely sounded like a personal attack.  It's this type of manufactured outrage that makes me read the forums much anymore.  I don't always agree with every decision Faithlife makes, but people get angry when employees don't respond, and then they get angry when they do respond, even when they just give facts. as Ben did in the response above.  

I'm glad this set got into production!

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 10039
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 6:21 AM | Locked

Denise:

I have a feeling 'we' is Ben, not Faithlife. If it's like most companies, the rule myseriously floats down from the sky.

Plus the blog is political hot-topics.  They're busy saving the cosmos.

I suspect I'm the 'It's Ben!' person. My allusion was that Ben has to follow the upstairs rules no matter. Very similar to the no-manuals rule, which various Faithlifers dance around. Which, by the way, the 'Help' resource looks very manual-y with illustrations now. Whoever's doing it, it's nice.

The underlying frustration with prepub is valid. The prepub system is the book chooser in an environment where there is only one source for books (used to be many in the Libby days). And worse, the customers vary by how/if they go to heaven ... it's not a hobby. And the blog is now mainly a software selling tool. That leaves a carot-based list of thousands of books, most of which are deathlist candidates. If you sign up, good luck ... you're on your own, and the numbers are not remotely in your favor.

Some forum members try to push deathlist candidates (NJSB comes to mind). And it's quite frustrating. Does the company care? Ben says 'yes'. But Ben's tools for helping out are almost non-existent. The list. (And no reflection on Ben.)


Posts 5247
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 8:17 AM | Locked

You end up with situations like this:

http://www.nphdirect.com/nphweb/html/bhol/innerpage.jsp?c=BHOL&cs=NBBC&sc=ELECV&ss=NA&nid=lcol

We are wold the digital volumes can be purchased here... but then you come here and find things like: New Beacon Bible Commentary Upgrade (5 vols.)

So you end up finding the volume you want that should be purchasable in Logos so if you want it right away you need to then go over to Amazon and buy the kindle version.

-Dan

Posts 10039
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 8:24 AM | Locked

Beacon requires a Mac for Logos. Per the publisher page.  I wonder how much disinterest is misinformation. If I read their page right.


Posts 5247
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 8:34 AM | Locked

I am sure there is a lot but when you have pages directing you to FL to be able to purchase I can see some will be disappointed to find out the volumes released 2 years ago are still not yet available in Logos.

-dan

Posts 4879
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 4:31 PM | Locked

If either of you have put up with years of MVP's on these forums acting out of line and telling people what they are and are not allowed to think, do and say on these forums you would understand where I am coming from but clearly you do not because you both are now being judge and making comment on something that was none of your business and in doing so are acting like the Pharisees who saw themselves as more righteous than everyone else.   Neither of you were addressed in this conversation so if you have nothing to say that actually adds value and you only want to look down on people and pass judgement I ask that you keep that judgement to yourselves.

Joseph Turner:

David Ruley:

Disciple of Christ (doc):

Ben I tried not to make imy initial comment on this issue about you as an individual, another customer brought you as an individual directly into the comment. But now you have come at me as an individual and have been unfair by taking my comments about FL's actions since you announced this title was in danger of being cancelled and suggested I was talking about FL's actions from the time this, and other titles were added as pre-pubs. You don't have to agree with my views but twisting my words is not an appropriate way to respond to our difference of view.

?????

That's what I'm saying.  There was absolutely nothing in Ben's statement that even remotely sounded like a personal attack.  It's this type of manufactured outrage that makes me read the forums much anymore.  I don't always agree with every decision Faithlife makes, but people get angry when employees don't respond, and then they get angry when they do respond, even when they just give facts. as Ben did in the response above.  

I'm glad this set got into production!

Posts 5247
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 4:43 PM | Locked

Not trying to say one thing or another here about your case DOC... only I do see your points on double standards... I recently saw someone being attacked and tried to remind the person of forum rules... for which I was a bit rudely rebuked and called a snow flake, ironically enough he and I likely have similar ideas on the position.. but I did not feel comfortable standing by and allow someone behaving by the rules to be attacked, even indirectly.

-dan

Posts 10039
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 5:00 PM | Locked

Yep ... the Logos forum is now exhibiting an interesting variety of vocabulary.  Each one, I have to look up, and then guess the usage AND the imagery behind it.  Unfortunately, Whyndell's 'snowflake', and 'christian fascist' can progress pretty far into indecent, but not my forum.


Posts 5247
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 5:25 PM | Locked

I know i could have reported it but I have a thick skin and he can call me what he wants, just wish he could have been a bit more considerate. But if he thinks WWJD and thinks he should say those things I am not the one to judge him. I don't think he is coming at things with actual ill intent, just think in the end that attitude does more harm than good.

-dan

Posts 348
LogosEmployee
Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 13 2017 8:24 AM | Locked

Disciple of Christ (doc):
MVP's on these forums acting out of line and telling people what they are and are not allowed to think, do and say

DOC, 

This kind of generalized accusation would be unfair toward any group of people, let alone the MVPs. The MVPs are a very selective group of individuals, who are chosen especially for the quality and fairness of their comments. They volunteer their time to help other Logos users, and I for one am very grateful. 

As far as I am aware, any instances of "telling people what they are allowed to say," have only been to remind users of the Forum Guidelines. If you notice any MVP overstepping their role in this regard, feel free to "Report Abuse" under the More button on the top right of the post, and I will be happy to look into it.

If you would like to continue this conversation, or if you have particular instances of grievances against any MVPs, please contact me directly at aborries[at]faithlife[dot]com. 

Adam Borries | Product Manager, Logos desktop application

Message me on Faithlife.com >>

Posts 1958
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 13 2017 11:17 AM | Locked

Disciple of Christ (doc):
If either of you have put up with years of MVP's on these forums acting out of line and telling people what they are and are not allowed to think, do and say on these forums you would understand where I am coming from but clearly you do not because you both are now being judge and making comment on something that was none of your business and in doing so are acting like the Pharisees who saw themselves as more righteous than everyone else.   Neither of you were addressed in this conversation so if you have nothing to say that actually adds value and you only want to look down on people and pass judgement I ask that you keep that judgement to yourselves.

Well, first of all, you and I have been posting for about the same amount of time, and I have read the forums since becoming a customer in 2007, so I have "put up with years of MVP's on these forums" for at least as long as you have.  My comment was based on the fact that you accused a Faithlife employee of twisting your words and personally attacking you, though it seemed that nothing of the sort took place.  When you make false accusations against another forum member, then there really is no damage done, but this is Ben's job, and such false accusations could affect him more seriously.  Again, you have proven my point by redirecting your manufactured outrage at me and David Ruley and David simply posted question marks, which you could have taken any number of ways, yet you chose to lash out and call names.  

This thread is supposed to be about the pre-pub in the title, and I ordered it to get it over the top; therefore, it is my business.  Again, those who resort to name calling and vitriol make these forums almost unbearable.  I am not judging you; I am simply pointing out a fact.  Calling people Pharisees and saying that their comments add no value is not very helpful in these situations, and I would argue that those types of comments subtract value.  You also seem to be doing what you accuse the MVP's of doing, and though I have seen some exchanges which some of them probably regret, I generally find them to be nothing short of helpful and supportive of those trying to use the software.  I am sure that I have posted comments that I would like to take back, but I try in the future to make sure that I think before I post.

Lastly, I would point out that it is a great benefit having Faithlife employees post in the forums.  If they are abused when they post, then eventually Faithlife will stop them from posting so that situations like this do not occur.  I would like for them to continue posting when possible.  I just pray that people act in a civil manner toward one another on a forum that discusses Bible software and resources.  If I have acted in a contrary manner, then I apologize wholeheartedly.  

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 348
LogosEmployee
Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 13 2017 1:43 PM | Locked

This thread has been locked.

Adam Borries | Product Manager, Logos desktop application

Message me on Faithlife.com >>

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