Logos 7 is Really Slow on my Laptop!

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Barron1961 | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Feb 21 2017 2:05 PM

I have been having speed issues for a. Long time, even before Logosv7 came out. I thought it was just me until I read in one of my Faithlife groups about another person who was having similar issues.

I run Logos 7 on an Asus laptop with 4 GB of memory and a 1/2 GB hard drive. It has an Intel processor but I am not sure which one.

Everything about it is as slow as a snail's pace. When I boot the program it can take as much as 20 minutes, sometimes, for the program to load completely. Then once I start using it after it loads, It takes a long long time for books to open, and I will get a "Logos 7 not responding" message several times when trying to open a Bible for studying. Passage guides, topical guides, etc. are also insanely slow to open. I have all of the tabs closed except for the first one when opening a passage guide, for example, and it has helped a little bit but not much.

I have seen on videos that the speed of Logos 7 is pretty much always demonstrated with an Apple MacBook computer. Is it just me, or is Logos 7 insanely slow on all PCs. I don't know anyone else who uses it so I can't ask them about their experiences. I really love Logos 7 features, but I find I don't use it as much as I would if it ran faster on my computer.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 21 2017 2:14 PM

I run Logos on a Windows machine and performance is fine.

A couple of things:

  • What type of hard drive do you have? If a conventional HDD what rotation speed does it have?
  • People have noted that moving from 4GB of Ram to 8 can make a significant difference 

To help us understand reasons for slow performance please enable diagnostic logging and post your logos.log file - after running Logos - in a reply to this thread

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 21 2017 2:53 PM

Graham Criddle:
To help us understand reasons for slow performance please enable diagnostic logging

Windows support has => https://www.logos.com/support/windows/report-problem with instructions how to enable diagnostic logging.

Barron1961:
It takes a long long time for books to open, and I will get a "Logos 7 not responding" message several times when trying to open a Bible for studying.

Does Bible have Visual Filters enabled ?

Personally have experienced "not responding" messages when Visual Filters are being applied. Sync processing also causes "not responding" => Annoyance: Sync Client has higher priority than Scrolling

Barron1961:
Everything about it is as slow as a snail's pace. When I boot the program it can take as much as 20 minutes

How many collections ?

Collection cache is refreshed when program is launched, which has no indicator plus can take minutes (timing would be included in diagnostic log files).

On a seven year old laptop, personally keep Logos 7 open a lot to minimize waiting for collection cache refreshing; have learned to launch Logos 7 followed by using task manager to monitor CPU usage. When CPU usage by Logos 7 drops below 20 %, then can use it.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 65
Barron1961 | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 22 2017 6:22 PM

I have saved the Logos File Log to my desktop but I can't figure out how to attach to a message!

Posts 65
Barron1961 | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 22 2017 6:25 PM

1030.Logos Log Files.zip

Graham Criddle:

I run Logos on a Windows machine and performance is fine.

A couple of things:

  • What type of hard drive do you have? If a conventional HDD what rotation speed does it have?
  • People have noted that moving from 4GB of Ram to 8 can make a significant difference 

To help us understand reasons for slow performance please enable diagnostic logging and post your logos.log file - after running Logos - in a reply to this thread

I don't doubt that my laptop is part of the problem. It wasn't top of the line when I bought it new. How do I find out the answers to your questions? I don't think I can upgrade the memory on my laptop. I can check with a local computer shop to ask them, but for some reason in the back of my mind, I seem to recall being told that my laptop cannot be upgraded.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 22 2017 11:07 PM

Barron1961:

I have saved the Logos File Log to my desktop but I can't figure out how to attach to a message!

Use the pape icon in the forum reply editor - third button from the right on the bottom row of buttons

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 22 2017 11:59 PM

Barron1961:
How do I find out the answers to your questions?

  • http://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/check-hard-drive-rpm/ has some  suggestions for finding out the model number of the hard drive which you can then check for speed
  • you can find memory details from "System Information" - available at Control Panel -> System and Security - System (though the exact location of this may vary depending on what version of Windows you are using)
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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 23 2017 3:20 AM

Barron1961:
Everything about it is as slow as a snail's pace. When I boot the program it can take as much as 20 minutes, sometimes, for the program to load completely. Then once I start using it after it loads, It takes a long long time for books to open, and I will get a "Logos 7 not responding" message several times when trying to open a Bible for studying. Passage guides, topical guides, etc. are also insanely slow to open. I have all of the tabs closed except for the first one when opening a passage guide, for example, and it has helped a little bit but not much.

I've looked through your logs, and there are actually very few errors. For the most part Logos is performing correctly, just very slowly. FWIW, it's not a problem with all PCs. I run Windows, with a very large library, and Logos will open in 20-30s, every time.

The biggest part of the problem is hardware, not software. To give you an idea, the very first line of your log file is written 10.197s after you start the application. On my PC the very first line is written 0.345s after I start. That suggests your PC is running 30 times slower than mine. We need to figure out why.

First, I notice that you have Logos installed on Drive D. There's no problem with installing on Drive D, but I wanted to be sure that's not an SD drive. SD drives are incredibly slow, and really not suitable for running Logos. To find out the speed of your D Drive, use CrystalDiskMark which is free software: http://crystalmark.info/software/CrystalDiskMark/index-e.html (the link Graham gave you will give you the specifications for your drive, while this link will give you measured speed and I think will be more helpful). When you run it, use the defaults, but change the disk to drive D. Let us know the results (a screenshot is easiest).

Second, whenever Logos is opened, it updates itself. There are four types of updates, and one happens in the background without you even knowing it's going on. This normally happens 30s or a minute after Logos is loaded, but in your case Logos hasn't finished loading when the updates begin. This makes starting doubly slow, because various things have to restart because they get updated in the middle of loading. I think this is partly why things are so bad in your case. The slowness is stopping you using Logos, so that next time there are even more updates, which makes it even slower. You end up in a vicious circle. I would certainly leave Logos open for some time (a few hours in your case), and connected to the internet to make sure all updates have applied. Afterwards restart, and again leave for a few hours. Then restart again, by which time all the updates should have applied, and you'll see your 'normal' start time. I'm still expecting it to be slow, but it should be better than before.

Finally, there appears to be an error with your UniversalTimeline file. I don't think that's making much difference. We can try and fix it once the slowness is better. 

Posts 1
richard j dill | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 15 2017 8:00 AM

Well, it does sound as if you could use more memory. 4GB is pretty low these days. I can't help but wonder about your processor speed, If fast enough, it might offset the need for memory.

I run Logos 7 (also 4, 5, 6, historically) on a 3.2 Ghz cpu with 24GB of memory and a 1TB HDD. Opening Logos is always painful. So painful that I now rarely use it. Navigating is frustrating until fully loaded -a non trivial amount of time. I have often moved to another source due to the wait and wound up closing Logos without using it because I found what I was looking for another way -quickly, painlessly, via an intuitive search. In fact, this scenario is almost always the case. I always assumed my issues were related to the number of references I have open in my layout, so I have never complained before.

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alabama24 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 15 2017 11:24 AM

richard j dill:
I run Logos 7 (also 4, 5, 6, historically) on a 3.2 Ghz cpu with 24GB of memory and a 1TB HDD. Opening Logos is always painful. So painful that I now rarely use it.

Your issue is clearly your hard drive. You should see dramatic improvement by moving to a solid state drive, making sure there is plenty of empty space. How full is the drive currently? 

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Posts 65
Barron1961 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 15 2017 7:35 PM

I definitely need a laptop upgrade because I only have 4 GB of RAM and a 1/2 TB hard drive. Logos 7 is so slow that it takes several minutes for it to boot up. It is so painfully slow that I have pretty much ceased to use it on my laptop and now only use it on my iPad Pro 9.7 or iPhone 7+. Unfortunately, this does not allow me to use all the advanced features that are available in Logos 7 that I paid over $300 for, not including my library which I can only access online now.

It may be years before I  can afford a computer or laptop that will successfully run this software.

Posts 456
Sarel Slabbert | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 15 2017 9:07 PM

Barron1961:

I definitely need a laptop upgrade because I only have 4 GB of RAM and a 1/2 TB hard drive. Logos 7 is so slow that it takes several minutes for it to boot up. It is so painfully slow that I have pretty much ceased to use it on my laptop and now only use it on my iPad Pro 9.7 or iPhone 7+. Unfortunately, this does not allow me to use all the advanced features that are available in Logos 7 that I paid over $300 for, not including my library which I can only access online now.

It may be years before I  can afford a computer or laptop that will successfully run this software.

I think your last sentence reflects a reality lots of Logos Users face. Most of us are financially not strong enough to afford both the software (with all the features and a decent library) and/or the hardware to run it properly. Frequently someone would pop into the forums (me included) and ask for a improvement in the speed of Logos. It is, at times on my laptop, painfully slow. So slow that I go and brew myself a cup of coffee while Logos runs the search or passage guide.  But, and this is just my personal experience, I have learned to work around this "frustration." Mainly because of the immense advantages Logos offers me. Although I do not like the slow speed of Logos on my hardware, I do still realize that it is way faster than working with a print library only. Even waiting for certain resources or tasks to complete is still faster than getting up, looking for a book on the shelf and paging to the correct place.

Yes, I know my laptop is no longer state of the art and that upgrading to a newer computer or SSD and/or more RAM would make huge difference, but the reality is that upgrades of this sort is usually all but cheap. I am one of the guys pleading/hoping that Faithlife can manage to make Logos speedier, but this has been an issue from Logos 4 (in my experience) and we are moving towards Logos 8 and the software is only becoming more complex with more and more added features and abilities (which is good for my study of the Bible) but not for my poor computer trying to steam through the processes.

I really hope your problem can be fixed easily, but in my case the only solution is getting a new and faster PC... which, unfortunately will probably not happen within the foreseeable future. Perhaps when Logos 10 is released I will be able to afford a PC to run it at speed Stick out tongue. In the meantime I accept that which I cannot change and use the Software as best I can, because it is absolutely brilliant and still faster than working with a print library.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 15 2017 9:54 PM

Sarel Slabbert:
I am one of the guys pleading/hoping that Faithlife can manage to make Logos speedier,

Logos 7.8 should be available next week and it starts much faster than v7.7 on my 2 yr old laptop.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

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alabama24 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 16 2017 9:14 AM

Barron1961:
I definitely need a laptop upgrade because I only have 4 GB of RAM and a 1/2 TB hard drive

In all likelihood the biggest issue is your hard drive. It isn't that it is only 1/2 TB... it is that it is a traditional hard drive with a spinning disk. An SSD will show much improvement. 

Out of curiosity: How much free space is left of the 1/2 TB?

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 16 2017 9:53 AM

alabama24:

Barron1961:
I definitely need a laptop upgrade because I only have 4 GB of RAM and a 1/2 TB hard drive

In all likelihood the biggest issue is your hard drive.

With that traditional HDD, additional paging/swapping due to only having 4 Gb isn't helping either.

SSD definitely would be the first/best upgrade to help improve performance.

Posts 65
Barron1961 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 16 2017 8:53 PM

It’s difficult to tell how much space is left exactly because ASUS partitioned it off as two drives, a C drive and a D drive with D holding the lions share of the space. This is where I have Logos 7 installed.

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Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 16 2017 9:59 PM

Sarel Slabbert:

I think your last sentence reflects a reality lots of Logos Users face. Most of us are financially not strong enough to afford both the software (with all the features and a decent library) and/or the hardware to run it properly. Frequently someone would pop into the forums (me included) and ask for a improvement in the speed of Logos. It is, at times on my laptop, painfully slow. So slow that I go and brew myself a cup of coffee while Logos runs the search or passage guide.  But, and this is just my personal experience, I have learned to work around this "frustration." Mainly because of the immense advantages Logos offers me. Although I do not like the slow speed of Logos on my hardware, I do still realize that it is way faster than working with a print library only. Even waiting for certain resources or tasks to complete is still faster than getting up, looking for a book on the shelf and paging to the correct place.

Yes, I know my laptop is no longer state of the art and that upgrading to a newer computer or SSD and/or more RAM would make huge difference, but the reality is that upgrades of this sort is usually all but cheap. I am one of the guys pleading/hoping that Faithlife can manage to make Logos speedier, but this has been an issue from Logos 4 (in my experience) and we are moving towards Logos 8 and the software is only becoming more complex with more and more added features and abilities (which is good for my study of the Bible) but not for my poor computer trying to steam through the processes.

I recently upgraded from a 5 year old laptop to a new one. It had all the specs I wanted at a very reasonable price--8GB of RAM (instead of the old 4), 1TB drive (instead of the 1/2), full HD screen, and a separate graphics card. Everything, that is, except for the SSD which we hear about endlessly on this forum as essential to better performance. Unfortunately, adding a large enough SSD to all the available configurations massively priced them out of my budget. So, I went with the described system without the SSD.

And you know what? The performance of Logos is now quite good, much much better than on the old system. In particular, I no longer have the tremendous lag I had when I had too many programs open--Logos, Chrome, and one or more MS Office applications, all of which I usually need when working. My workflow has become much more efficient and pleasurable, whereas before I experienced constant frustration. I think the main contributing factor is the additional RAM. All of our programs are constantly updating, requiring more system resources than what they did when they originally came out; we can't rely on the original recommended specs for them. The lesson is that we do have to upgrade periodically, but we shouldn't let the perfect become the enemy of doing the good that we can, and it's okay if the grail of the SSD has to wait.

And with what Dave Hooton is reporting about the next release of Logos, I'm rather more optimistic about improvements on this front that what I had been.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 17 2017 12:46 AM

Barron1961:

It’s difficult to tell how much space is left exactly because ASUS partitioned it off as two drives, a C drive and a D drive with D holding the lions share of the space. This is where I have Logos 7 installed.

You don't say what vintage your laptop is Barron but you have identified the problems.

I have a brand new iMac here but I bought it with just 8MB of RAM and it crawled along running the software. A quick trip to Mr Memory in the USA (on line not physically) got the memory put to 40MB and it files.

I think this should be a first port of a call if you are considering upgrading your kit. The more you can do in memory without resorting to the hard drive the faster things will go.

An SSD would even then make a considerable difference to your experience. You could consider swapping out your existing drive and replacing it with a single partition drive. 

Both these options should cost a fraction for replacing you machine entirely providing that it is of an age that is reasonable to upgrade.

Posts 65
Barron1961 | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 17 2017 5:51 PM

My laptop is about two or three years old.  By comparison to my last computer which I had for 11 years this one is fairly new.

 I would not even know how to go about upgrading it. I would probably need to take it to a computer shop for that.

Posts 84
Daniel Radke | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 17 2017 10:27 PM

Just to add to the testimony of others, in my experience upgrading RAM and switching to a SSD hard drive are the two most important hardware changes to make Logos run significantly faster. This past January I upgraded from a 2009 PC laptop with 4 GB RAM and a 7200 rpm hard drive to a 2012 MacBook Pro with 16 GB RAM and a SSD hard drive. The difference in speed for using Logos is like night and day. In my opinion, the SSD upgrade was the more influential of the two, although I know additional RAM is very helpful too. If you use Logos a lot and you find it to be slow on your current machine, saving up money for RAM and SSD upgrades will be worth it.

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