What Tablet?

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Posts 434
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 9:52 AM

Paul C:

Just for the record, the Dell Venue 8 pro 5855 we've been discussing is a Windows 10 based unit. It accepts the full desktop version of logos/Verbum. You can store your complete library on the internal drive and have all the bells and whistles you enjoy on your PC, including working offline.

Hi, Paul,

Just for the record, I also have the Dell Venue 8 Pro 5855. My experience is identical to yours. Glad to see that it's working out so well for you. I purchased mine used on Swappa, and it came with the stylus. Both in excellent condition. The stylus makes the scrolling experience even better, but I can do just fine with my finger. I agree that the Dell is a bit overpriced, but it is also an improvement over the "old" Venue 8 Pro - which was pretty good in itself.  With this Dell, you have the full desktop Logos/Verbum, in a very portable format. 

Swappa is a good place to catch the occasional 5855 at good prices. 

Posts 1753
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 10:13 AM

Hard to believe that Logos would run well on this configuration which the above computer seems to have....Intel Atom Z3740D Processor (2MB Cache, up to 1.8GHz Quad-Core)

Posts 1753
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 10:15 AM


Bill I lowered my price and relisted.  I still owe on the used Surface Pro 3 may have to sell it if the original SP1 does not sell on ebay under joshinri.

Sigh.

Posts 67
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 10:41 AM

 Zip it!

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 1:53 PM

JoshInRI:


Bill I lowered my price and relisted.  I still owe on the used Surface Pro 3 may have to sell it if the original SP1 does not sell on ebay under joshinri.

Sigh.

Josh, at a starting price of $250, your SP1 will never sell. If you want some comparable sale prices, Swappa is showing that the average sale price of the SP1 there is $156 with a recent high of $180.

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 2:00 PM

Mark Nolette:

Paul C:

Just for the record, the Dell Venue 8 pro 5855 we've been discussing is a Windows 10 based unit. It accepts the full desktop version of logos/Verbum. You can store your complete library on the internal drive and have all the bells and whistles you enjoy on your PC, including working offline.

Hi, Paul,

Just for the record, I also have the Dell Venue 8 Pro 5855. My experience is identical to yours. Glad to see that it's working out so well for you. I purchased mine used on Swappa, and it came with the stylus. Both in excellent condition. The stylus makes the scrolling experience even better, but I can do just fine with my finger. I agree that the Dell is a bit overpriced, but it is also an improvement over the "old" Venue 8 Pro - which was pretty good in itself.  With this Dell, you have the full desktop Logos/Verbum, in a very portable format. 

Swappa is a good place to catch the occasional 5855 at good prices. 

I have a DVP 8 5855 coming. I'll probably need to delete the recovery partition on the eMMC in order to get more of the 64 GB available to me. My Logos data folder is 33.5 GB. If not, I may have to install on a fast micro SD card. I did that with the Asus Vivotab Note 8 I had a while back and it worked fine.

Posts 67
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 2:19 PM

Bill Anderson:
I'll probably need to delete the recovery partition
Try everything you can to get Logos on the main drive. I feel confident you will enjoy  the machine. Please update us after you use it a bit.

My Logos file is 21.8G and I was able to install on the main drive without deleting the recovery partition and have 16.3G free If you install a pre-indexed copy, I'm sure you can make it work.

Posts 434
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 3:30 PM

Bill Anderson:

I have a DVP 8 5855 coming. I'll probably need to delete the recovery partition on the eMMC in order to get more of the 64 GB available to me. My Logos data folder is 33.5 GB. If not, I may have to install on a fast micro SD card. I did that with the Asus Vivotab Note 8 I had a while back and it worked fine.

Hi, Bill,

You can copy the recovery partition to a flash drive before you delete it from your 5855. You'll need a flash drive that is compatible with the USB port on the 5855. I did that on mine. 

My Verbum data folder is about 24 GB. I have Verbum installed on the eMMC. My 5855 has about 12 GB of free space. Mind you, I haven't installed very much else on the 5855 besides what comes with Windows 10. My microSD card is formatted NTFS so that I can install apps/programs on it. That helps. So, in your case space might be tight! Logos needs some free space for indexing, and Windows is not happy with a nearly-full main drive. Performance may take a hit.  So, even though you are always better off installing Logos/Verbum on the main drive, you might be better off installing on a fast microSD card. If you get one of the fastest cards, performance will be close to the eMMC. You can try both ways and see which one works best for you. 

Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth!  

Posts 1753
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 11 2017 3:45 PM

....Bill mine comes with the pen and the keyboard though.  I like what you are all saying about this DVP 8 5855 and may check it out instead for mobile windows on a larger tablet for just LOGOS use maybe. Smile

Posts 434
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 12 2017 8:09 AM

JoshInRI:

....Bill mine comes with the pen and the keyboard though.  I like what you are all saying about this DVP 8 5855 and may check it out instead for mobile windows on a larger tablet for just LOGOS use maybe. Smile

Hi! I think that the 5855 is a good solution for someone who wants the full functionality of Logos on a mobile platform. Compared to your Surface Pro, the 5855 is smaller and will run Logos more slowly. But it's not THAT slow. Everything works, whether or not you have online access. The display is nice (1920x1200, if memory serves me). You don't need the stylus, but if you get it, it works well on the 5855. Battery life, in my experience, runs around 6-8 hours, depending on what you're doing. You can format a microSD card as NTFS to install programs/apps there, if you wish, to save space on the eMMC for Logos. 

If you do look into it, definitely find a used one in good condition. It's a bit overpriced, new. There are other 8 inch Windows tablets you can check out, too. 

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 21 2017 1:36 PM

I received my Dell Venue 8 Pro 5855 and have installed Logos on a 128GB Lexar UHS-II microSDXC card. It is one of the fastest cards out there, but unfortunately the SD card reader in the 5855 limits the read/write speeds to less than half of the potential speeds of this card. Nevertheless, Logos runs fine on it -- when the program is not indexing. Start up takes a minute or so, but once in the program and with everything settled down, the tablet fulfills its intended purpose of being a mobile reading device that gives me access to all of my resources, including PBBs. Indexing is the biggest drag on the performance of the tablet. I'd like to try installing Logos on the internal eMMC, which according to Crystal Mark runs faster than the SD card. To do that I will need to delete the recovery partitions and, if I have calculated correctly, will leave me with only about 7GB free after installing Logos. That may not be enough leftover space and I am reticent to delete the recovery partitions. 

Posts 434
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 21 2017 1:58 PM

Bill Anderson:

I received my Dell Venue 8 Pro 5855 and have installed Logos on a 128GB Lexar UHS-II microSDXC card. It is one of the fastest cards out there, but unfortunately the SD card reader in the 5855 limits the read/write speeds to less than half of the potential speeds of this card. Nevertheless, Logos runs fine on it -- when the program is not indexing. Start up takes a minute or so, but once in the program and with everything settled down, the tablet fulfills its intended purpose of being a mobile reading device that gives me access to all of my resources, including PBBs. Indexing is the biggest drag on the performance of the tablet. I'd like to try installing Logos on the internal eMMC, which according to Crystal Mark runs faster than the SD card. To do that I will need to delete the recovery partitions and, if I have calculated correctly, will leave me with only about 7GB free after installing Logos. That may not be enough leftover space and I am reticent to delete the recovery partitions. 

Hi, Bill,

Here you will find instructions from Microsoft on how to create a USB recovery disk. You'll need a flash drive compatible with your 5855's USB port. Once the drive is created, check it by rebooting to the flash drive. You should be able to do so through Windows 10. Once you know that the flash drive works, you won't need the recovery partition. 

Here, if you feel a bit more adventurous, is a link to a Dell forum where some folks (myself included) discuss various options as to how to do this. You can install Macrium Reflect, which will make a backup image of any and every partition, including the recovery partition, on your sd card. I have set up a USB recovery disk on a flash drive and then deleted the recovery partition on my 5855. But I can use the flash drive, and/or restore the recovery partition if needed.  

Still, given the size of your Logos data, I'd say that you're better off running Logos from the microSD card. Doing what I did is a bit of fuss, and it still might not produce enough eMMC space for you. 

Even in my setup - which gives me about 12 GB free on my eMMC, whenever Verbum does any serious indexing, I get the popup window warning me that my internal storage space is getting small and that I may wish to delete some programs! At that rate, only 7 GB free would be even tighter. 

On second thought, you're better off with your solution! 

Posts 67
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 21 2017 2:22 PM

Bill Anderson:
I am reticent to delete the recovery partitions
I am glad the machine fills some of your needs. I just regret you can't experience the responsiveness afforded by installing on the internal drive.

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 21 2017 2:22 PM

Thanks, Mark. This tablet would have been great with 128GB eMMC. The screen is gorgeous, the digitizer and pen work great and the tablet runs relatively cool. One question you may be able to answer: Aside from formatting the SD as NTFS (which I did) and going to "Storage" under Settings to tell the tablet to install programs on the SD, are there any other steps I need to do? The reason I ask is that I installed Office from my Office 365 subscription, but I don't see the installation files on the SD card.

Posts 434
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 21 2017 2:36 PM

Bill Anderson:

Thanks, Mark. This tablet would have been great with 128GB eMMC. The screen is gorgeous, the digitizer and pen work great and the tablet runs relatively cool. One question you may be able to answer: Aside from formatting the SD as NTFS (which I did) and going to "Storage" under Settings to tell the tablet to install programs on the SD, are there any other steps I need to do? The reason I ask is that I installed Office from my Office 365 subscription, but I don't see the installation files on the SD card.

Yes. This tablet would be great with a 128 GB eMMC - and perfect with a 128GB SSD! 

Beyond what you already did in Storage, I can't think of anything else. Any app you download from the Windows Store should install to your SD card now. Some older programs will give you the option of choosing where you want them installed. I would have thought that Office 365 would have either given you the option, or gone along with your settings in Storage. 

I just did a search, and apparently Microsoft doesn't support SD card installations of Office 365, no matter what your settings say. See it here.  There might be some trick to do it, but I don't know what it would be.  

Posts 35
Jeff | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 21 2017 3:18 PM

I just wanted to chime in with my experience. I have the original Dell Venue 8 Pro. This is the 2GB RAM/32 GB storage version. My library is relatively small in comparison to most people here but I still ran into major storage issues due to the tiny amount of on-board memory and the seemingly bloated size of the original Windows install. I initially attempted to run my copy of Verbum from the SD card but the speed was disappointing. After doing some research, I learned that many other people had successfully regained storage space after doing a clean install of Windows. For whatever reason, the Windows image that Dell ships is much larger than it needs to be. This can be resolved by installing a fresh copy of Windows. The "Windows 10 Media Creation Tool" can be downloaded directly from Microsoft to the SD card. The Windows installer will boot from the SD card to reinstall the OS. It will install Windows 10 without any Dell additives. This gained me about 6 GBs, which was about average of what others had regained. Beware that this will be a generic copy of Windows and things specific to the tablet (like the touch screen) won't run out of the box. Before I ran the install, I went to Dell's website and manually downloaded the individual Windows 10 drivers designed for my tablet and saved them to the SD card. I needed to use a USB keyboard and mouse to interact with the device until I was able to add the touchscreen driver to the new Windows 10 install. I can say that after doing this, it felt like I had an upgraded tablet. Not only did I gain storage but things generally moved much faster and lots of little bugs were gone. By the way, according to Microsoft, it is not possible to install the full version of Office to anything other than the C: drive. The Windows-Store mobile Office apps can be installed to the SD card however.

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 21 2017 3:25 PM

Augustine,

Thank you for your reply. I hadn't thought to take into consideration Dell bloatware in its Windows image. Maybe that would get me over the onboard storage limitation I face with a library of 34GBs. So, if I wipe this out and reinstall a clean image of Windows 10 Pro, will the tablet activate Windows?

Posts 434
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 21 2017 4:13 PM

Bill Anderson:

Augustine,

Thank you for your reply. I hadn't thought to take into consideration Dell bloatware in its Windows image. Maybe that would get me over the onboard storage limitation I face with a library of 34GBs. So, if I wipe this out and reinstall a clean image of Windows 10 Pro, will the tablet activate Windows?

If you go this route, you'll need to find the Redstone version of Windows 10 (the one that came with the 5855) or it won't activate. Augustine's idea has promise, but make sure you have your ducks lined up before trying it! 

Posts 35
Jeff | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 22 2017 11:30 AM

Bill,

It's my understanding that the license number of an activated copy of Windows 10 is forever tied to the device that it is installed on. Every Windows device has an ID that is imbedded in the actual hardware. Starting with Windows 10, Microsoft maintains a database of Windows licenses/machine IDs. I had the very same doubt as you did when I attempted this and I did some research online. A blogger named Paul Thurrott (thurrott.com) looked into this very issue and, after reading his articles, I felt satisfied.

My Venue device actually shipped with Windows 8. When Microsoft offered the free upgrade to Windows 10, I did an in-place upgrade (installed Windows 10 on top of Windows 8) which actually made performance worse. Despite that however, I had an activated copy of Windows 10 on my device. Since my device had become associated with a Windows 10 license, I then had the freedom to install a clean copy of the OS and thus import that new license number into the clean install. Since your device came with a Windows 10 Pro license, you have already have the right to reinstall the OS whenever you want, regardless of whether it has been subsequently updated. When running the tool, be sure to choose the same version of the OS, (Pro/32 bit or 64 bit depending on what you currently have). You should be able to reinstall whatever happens to be the current update as often as you want without running into activation issues because Microsoft has already associated your device ID with a Windows Pro license on their servers. Mark may know something that I don't but I'd be very surprised if you were restricted to installing an the old Redstone version rather than the current mainstream release version of Windows, which, for the moment, I believe is still the Anniversary Update. As long as you run the Media Creation tool from your Venue, your current license should be injected into the image that it creates on your SD card. If you want to hedge your bet, leave the recovery partition intact until you have completed the reimage. That way, you can always go back to the factory version. If all else fails, you can always call Microsoft and request a phone activation in the event that it doesn't work. But again, I'd be very surprised if you ran into any activation issues when using the Media Creation Tool. Also, FYI, Microsoft is on the verge of moving Windows to the Creator's Update. Once that hits mainstream release, that will be the image that the tool will provide you. So, if you'd rather not be an early adoptor of the new version, you may want to at least get the current version downloaded to your card.

Posts 232
Genghis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 25 2017 3:11 AM

Colin Bleakney:
What Tablet would be best to study Logos?

Interesting reading the reviews of Dell machines on this thread.

FWIW, I'm using a ThinkPad 10 Gen 1 tablet with 2GB RAM, 64GB HDD and a 32GB microSD card.  All the Logos resources are on the microSD card.

I only have about 12GB of resources.  Logos is responsive, no lag or stuttering during scrolling.  Everything synchronizes with another copy of Logos on my desktop including highlighting, personal books and Notes. 

Still plenty of room for Office 365 too. 

I have the custom keyboard but find I haven't used it much. 

Logos on a Windows 10 tablet is highly recommended.  No need to be restrained by a limited feature set, still possible to navigate with a finger, and using a stylus is available for handwriting input and navigation if required. 

Windows tablets are pretty light and the price performance curve is pretty good.  There are lots of manufacturers out there so there's plenty of choice.  OTOH this also means that there is a bell curve for build quality.  Be sure to read lots of reviews before pulling the trigger. 

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