CUV with RI Speaker and Addressee Label Messed up

Page 1 of 1 (13 items)
This post has 12 Replies | 0 Followers

Posts 1164
LimJK | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Apr 5 2017 11:53 PM

Logos,

I noticed that the Speaker and Addressee Labels are messed up in a number of ways, I suppose this problems were introduced because of the new CUV text. what I am reporting is not exhaustive, just some examples:

  • Labels are at wrong position
  • Speaker (suppose to be Mariner) became (God)
  • Speaker (suppose to be Jonah) became (Jeremiah)
  • Addressee (suppose to be Jonah) became (Egyptian)
  • duplicated Speaker and Addressee (see Romans Chapter 1)
  • etc.

PS: Suggestion, if there are future drastic changes, may be you might want to push resource and data set through beta and get some of us to test it before rolling out.  I really fear the negative confidence issue to new Chinese Users who came on board due to the new Chinese Bronze Package.

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Mid 2014 2.5GHz RAM:16GB SSD:512GB macOS Mojave 10.14.1 | iPhone X iOS 12.1

Posts 7953
LogosEmployee

I've alerted the resource production team. See https://community.logos.com/forums/t/140349.aspx 

Posts 1164
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 8 2017 12:26 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

I've alerted the resource production team. See https://community.logos.com/forums/t/140349.aspx 

Bradley,

Thanks ... many of the obvious issues were fixed (thanks) ... below are just some examples where it is not fixed, I just spent some time to go though 1-2 chapters for a couple of books in NT and OT. So it is not exhaustive.

a) Duplicated Speaker and Addressee labels

b) Wrong position of labels in CUV but correct in ESV

c) Several Inconsistence position of labels (After 說 before : instead of After the Chinese quotation 「)

d) Wrong Position of Labels which is also wrong in ESV.

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Mid 2014 2.5GHz RAM:16GB SSD:512GB macOS Mojave 10.14.1 | iPhone X iOS 12.1

Posts 7953
LogosEmployee

a) There's one for Isaiah and one for Malachi; this is by design in the data set

b) I can't read Chinese, but is CUV translating indirect speed as direct speech? The speaker labels are applied in the Greek to direct speech; they don't change based on the translation.

c) I think this might be a Qere/Ketiv difference in this verse, possibly combined with different alignment in CUV vs ESV. I'd have to ask someone who knows more about this to comment.

d) Position seems fine to me; the speech incorporates the greeting.

Posts 1164
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 9 2017 6:21 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

a) There's one for Isaiah and one for Malachi; this is by design in the data set

Bradley,

Thanks for reply, I have no issue with the speaker labels Isaiah and Malachi in Mark 1:1, noticed that I did not annotate this pair of speakers. The duplicate is in the addressee here for Audience of the scripture.

If you noticed the second set of speaker and address labels in Mark 1:7... 他傳道 or he preached is singular and speaker is one John the Baptist, so I thought it is logically a bug to have the same speaker label duplicated. Am I missing something?

PS: I do not know original language well enough so please bear with me Smile I will come back on (b) and (c) after I get some rest.

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Mid 2014 2.5GHz RAM:16GB SSD:512GB macOS Mojave 10.14.1 | iPhone X iOS 12.1

Posts 1164
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 10 2017 7:25 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

b) I can't read Chinese, but is CUV translating indirect speed as direct speech? The speaker labels are applied in the Greek to direct speech; they don't change based on the translation.

Bradley,

Thanks for the education on (b) on CUV translating indirect speech as direct speech, got it Yes

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

c) I think this might be a Qere/Ketiv difference in this verse, possibly combined with different alignment in CUV vs ESV. I'd have to ask someone who knows more about this to comment.

I thought as a lay person the speaker and addressee label is really at the wrong position for CUV, what am I missing Smile this time? Thanks for you patience.

 

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Mid 2014 2.5GHz RAM:16GB SSD:512GB macOS Mojave 10.14.1 | iPhone X iOS 12.1

Posts 7953
LogosEmployee

LimJK:
If you noticed the second set of speaker and address labels in Mark 1:7... 他傳道 or he preached is singular and speaker is one John the Baptist, so I thought it is logically a bug to have the same speaker label duplicated. Am I missing something?

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood you. Yes, this is a bug: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/118662.aspx 

Posts 7953
LogosEmployee

LimJK:
I thought as a lay person the speaker and addressee label is really at the wrong position for CUV, what am I missing Smile this time? Thanks for you patience.

The ESV and CUV are aligned to different Hebrew words in this verse. Look at the subscript numbers in the reverse interlinear ribbon for the words in the speech.

The ESV has: 12, 13, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 26, 25, 11

The CUV has: 15, 16, 17, 22, 21, 23, 24, 26, 25, 18, 19, 20, 11, 12, 13, 14

The CUV includes three Hebrew words the ESV doesn't (14, 15, 16). A search for {Speaker <Person Nebuchadnezzar>} doesn't highlight the words 14, 15, or 16 so it appears that they are not tagged in the Reported Speech dataset. Since I don't know Hebrew, I can't tell if that's a bug in the dataset or not. (But that's why the speaker icon doesn't appear before the first word in the quote.) And since I can't speak Chinese, I can't tell if the alignment is good or poor. Smile But I can pass this along.

Posts 7953
LogosEmployee

Missed image in my previous post.

Posts 22
LogosEmployee
Jimmy Parks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 10 2017 10:21 AM

What do these lists of numbers refer to?

The ESV has: 12, 13, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 26, 25, 11

The CUV has: 15, 16, 17, 22, 21, 23, 24, 26, 25, 18, 19, 20, 11, 12, 13, 14

Are they verses?

Posts 1164
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 10 2017 3:40 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood you. Yes, this is a bug: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/118662.aspx 

Bradley,

Thanks ... looks like MJ caught this some time ago.

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Mid 2014 2.5GHz RAM:16GB SSD:512GB macOS Mojave 10.14.1 | iPhone X iOS 12.1

Posts 1164
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 10 2017 3:51 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

The ESV and CUV are aligned to different Hebrew words in this verse. Look at the subscript numbers in the reverse interlinear ribbon for the words in the speech.

The ESV has: 12, 13, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 26, 25, 11

The CUV has: 15, 16, 17, 22, 21, 23, 24, 26, 25, 18, 19, 20, 11, 12, 13, 14

The CUV includes three Hebrew words the ESV doesn't (14, 15, 16). A search for {Speaker <Person Nebuchadnezzar>} doesn't highlight the words 14, 15, or 16 so it appears that they are not tagged in the Reported Speech dataset. Since I don't know Hebrew, I can't tell if that's a bug in the dataset or not. (But that's why the speaker icon doesn't appear before the first word in the quote.) And since I can't speak Chinese, I can't tell if the alignment is good or poor. Smile But I can pass this along.

Thanks for the explanation ... The CUV Reverse Interlinear work and tagging is massive, appreciate the effort ... was trying to help catch some of the bugs as a lay person when I have some time. Your explanation on some of the rationales / basis of the tagging helps. If this case if it is not a bug, it will be interesting to understand the rationale.

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Mid 2014 2.5GHz RAM:16GB SSD:512GB macOS Mojave 10.14.1 | iPhone X iOS 12.1

Page 1 of 1 (13 items) | RSS