topical search

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This post has 25 Replies | 4 Followers

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Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, May 23 2017 10:45 AM

I should know this by now, but I am drawing a blank, and all my attempts turn up nothing.

I want to find all the prayers of the Old Testament.  I tried Naves, but that was like going through a junk drawer.  Tried topical search but got no results.  Probably did it wrong.

Somebody help me please.

Thank you

Posts 2820
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 23 2017 10:52 AM

Larry Craig:
I want to find all the prayers of the Old Testament.

Google. (I won't vouch for accuracy, but it's a start, and you don't need to know programming language.)

http://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/prayers/prayers-old-testament.php#.WSR2KDdunDc

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 600
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 23 2017 11:02 AM

Thank you.  Looks like they should all be there.  This will be a great help. More specifically, I am looking for the actual prayers themselves.  I am discipling a person, and I want them to see how the people in the Old Testament worded their prayers, how they formed arguments why God should answer their prayers.   I was also hoping to gain a little more information on Logos.  I am sure I will have similar searches in the future.   Thanks again.
Posts 2820
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 23 2017 11:10 AM

Larry Craig:
 I am sure I will have similar searches in the future.

This is a very do-able search in Logos, but I don't do them often enough to remember how without looking them up. I suspected you wanted a quick answer (and that's why I posted the google search...sure wish Logos had fuzzy search); but you may get a better answer by digging into the search helps for Logos.

A higher-end user will surely come along and post a quick how-to for you in this thread.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 600
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 23 2017 11:27 AM

thank you

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Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 23 2017 11:33 AM

Larry Craig:
I want to find all the prayers of the Old Testament.  I tried Naves, but that was like going through a junk drawer.  Tried topical search but got no results.

The "Speaking to God" interactive is good for this (picture on right of the screenshot). Or you can do a search for the cultural concept of prayer (on the left)

Do either of these help?

Posts 600
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 23 2017 11:40 AM

I don't know how to duplicate either of these searches.  I tried, but I'm missing something.  Thank you

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 23 2017 11:54 AM

Larry Craig:

I don't know how to duplicate either of these searches.  I tried, but I'm missing something.  Thank you

Here is a link that hopefully will open up a search for you. You can search on the Bible tab within any reverse-interlinear Bible:

{Section <Culture Prayer>}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Monologue}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Dialogue}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Soliloquy}

This searches for Graham's solution, as well as every hit from the "Speaking to God" interactive. 

Note that there are 4 items in the search, separated by commas. You can also play around searching only for one of them.

Or, try searching for words that are within these texts by placing the entire thing within () and then using the search operator INTERSECTS. Like this, finding occurrences of the word "listen" within these texts:

listen INTERSECTS ({Section <Culture Prayer>}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Monologue}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Dialogue}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Soliloquy})

Posts 600
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 23 2017 12:23 PM

wow.  This is way too complicated.  Fortunately, I see that there is a data set already made up for this.  I just hope I don't need to do a search for something that somebody else hasn't already done.

Thank you.

Actually I do.  I just don't know how I would do it yet.

Posts 2820
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 23 2017 1:44 PM

Larry Craig:
wow.  This is way too complicated.

I agree, and it is unfortunate. The search engine is very robust and very customizable for specific searches. But it is equally difficult to use.

Here is a direction that FL should maybe consider. Below is a screenshot of a multiple regression model: the first screenshot is the script required to run the model on the data, and the second screen shot is the simple, three-level menu choice that runs that script. Something like this process would make Logos much more accessible to the layperson without a lot of tech skills. Logos already does this to one degree (the right-click context menu), so it isn't foreign to the software. Something like this working with searches would be very helpful.

Just a thought...

(The following screenshots were taken from SPSS, v. 24.)

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 758
David A Egolf | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 23 2017 4:31 PM

Fr Devin Roza:

Here is a link that hopefully will open up a search for you. You can search on the Bible tab within any reverse-interlinear Bible:

{Section <Culture Prayer>}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Monologue}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Dialogue}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Soliloquey}

This searches for Graham's solution, as well as every hit from the "Speaking to God" interactive. 

Note that there are 4 items in the search, separated by commas. You can also play around searching only for one of them.

Or, try searching for words that are within these texts by placing the entire thing within () and then using the search operator INTERSECTS. Like this, finding occurrences of the word "listen" within these texts:

listen INTERSECTS ({Section <Culture Prayer>}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Monologue}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Dialogue}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Soliloquey})

Those links open only New Testament passages.  I presume that the problem is that I do not have Logos Now?  Is my presumption correct?

Posts 82
Kristine Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 23 2017 6:51 PM

I notice that when I perform  this search in NASB95 and then the same search but spell Soliloquey as Soliloquy, my results are a bit different. I saved the results of both searches as passage lists.  Shouldn't the search results be the same?:

listen INTERSECTS ({Section <Culture Prayer>}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Monologue}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Dialogue}, {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Soliloquey})

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 23 2017 9:11 PM

Kristine Lewis:
... spell Soliloquey as Soliloquy, my results are a bit different

{Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Soliloquey} does not match anything

{Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Soliloquy} matches Speech Label

David A Egolf:
Those links open only New Testament passages.  I presume that the problem is that I do not have Logos Now?  Is my presumption correct?

Yes, Logos Now includes datasets for this search:

{Section <Culture Prayer>} OR {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Monologue} OR {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Dialogue} OR {Label Speech WHERE Type ~ Soliloquy}

FYI: if become a Logos Now member this month (May 2017), can use $ 50 discount code toward a purchase of $ 100 or more => 2 Extra Logos Now perks for May

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 82
Kristine Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 23 2017 9:50 PM

I thought Soliloquey and Soliloquy were alternate spellings, like Monologue and Monolog, Dialogue and Dialog.  I looked up Soliloquey and it was a valid spelling.  Thanks for checking on this.

Posts 1507
Forum MVP
Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 24 2017 10:28 AM

Larry Craig:

wow.  This is way too complicated.  Fortunately, I see that there is a data set already made up for this.  I just hope I don't need to do a search for something that somebody else hasn't already done.

Thank you.

Actually I do.  I just don't know how I would do it yet.

Don't lose hope... 

Most of the time, you can just right click on a word that has the tagging you are looking for, select the tag in the right click menu, and then choose the option to search for it. The program will write the search string for you. 

PS Nice job KS4J and Kristine noticing the mistake in my search query. I corrected it.

Posts 2820
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 24 2017 11:48 AM

Fr Devin Roza:
Nice job KS4J and Kristine noticing the mistake in my search query.

And there lies the problem.

Based on a limited look at your posts in the forums, I suspect you are on the high end of the high-end users of Logos, and you didn't get the script right.  So where does that leave me, and Larry, and the rest of us dupes who can't run one of these searches without extensive research first, or finding someone like you available to write the script for us?

This needs a solution.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 24 2017 12:22 PM

Doc B:
So where does that leave me, and Larry, and the rest of us dupes who can't run one of these searches without extensive research first, or finding someone like you available to write the script for us?

High end simple trick is use right click. Thankful for right click having many search options so can copy string to combine with other(s) as desired. Dreaming of option to copy search string (or tab) without needing to run search.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 600
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 24 2017 6:34 PM

perhaps so, but f I choose a topic like OT prayers which don't match any words found in the Biblical text, 

thanks again

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 24 2017 8:26 PM

Larry Craig:
I want to find all the prayers of the Old Testament.

Another idea is searching for articles about prayers of the Old Testament:

([field heading,largetext,surface] prayer,petition) AFTER 88 WORDS ([field heading,largetext] Old)

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1507
Forum MVP
Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 25 2017 2:01 AM

Doc B:

Fr Devin Roza:
Nice job KS4J and Kristine noticing the mistake in my search query.

And there lies the problem.

Based on a limited look at your posts in the forums, I suspect you are on the high end of the high-end users of Logos, and you didn't get the script right.  So where does that leave me, and Larry, and the rest of us dupes who can't run one of these searches without extensive research first, or finding someone like you available to write the script for us?

This needs a solution.

I agree! I've been pushing for years for Faithlife to develop a way to add in these codes without having to write them out. Personally I think a drop down menu from the Search panel (with options similar to the "Bible Browser" left hand panel) would be the easiest way to do this, where the program would paste the search item you select wherever your cursor is in the search panel. 

In the meantime, if you do want to learn in a systematic way advanced searching in Logos, these training videos I made might be of use for you. They cover pretty much everything. And this video by Mark Barnes is an excellent introduction to this type of searching.

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