GK101 Introduction to Biblical Greek John D. Schwandt

Page 2 of 4 (70 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next >
This post has 69 Replies | 9 Followers

Posts 853
Michael McLane | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 15 2017 5:09 PM

So, was this never on pre-pub? It just went straight on sale?

Is this another one of those "deals" where FL gets my money and is able to use it while I have to wait six months before I get a product (if they get it done by the end of the year)?

Posts 50
LogosEmployee
John Schwandt | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 15 2017 5:48 PM

The intention is to please two types of customers.  There are those who want a pre-order discount and would like to get started using the products that are available right away.  They should be happy with the bundles.  (The Biblical Language Certificate Program bundle even has the effect of putting the Hebrew course and text on sale during this time as well.)  Then there are those want the pre-order discount but don’t want to be charged until all of the products are live.  We will have plenty of last chance messaging when the last resource is about to ship and the special discount will finish.  I will also post to this thread so you will be sure to get a notice.  So those customers don’t have to feel compelled to make the transaction earlier than they typically would.  I expect the remaining two resources (digital version of the Lexham text and GK101) to be available before the year ends.

It is true that this course shipped without the typical pre-order offer, but the same discount is currently available until the all of the resources ship.

Thanks everyone for the interest in the courses and the programs.  I’m very pleased with the alphabet course.  It is the most interactive course that we have ever produced.

Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 15 2017 7:20 PM

Thanks John.  The alphabet course does look good.  My boys will start using it in September.  Having the rest of the course finished before year's end may work fine for us.

Posts 10030
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 16 2017 8:48 AM

John Schwandt:
The Interactive Greek Alphabet Course will ship first.  Watch for it sometime this month.

Thanks John! A great course, very well done! 

(It seems that one part, the Listen & Learn Greek Interactive has not yet shipped, but that doesn't diminish the value of the course.)

As a self-studying learner of Greek I watched several introductions to the alphabet, the diphtongs and the square of stops on the web and read some in textbooks and I think your course really does a great job laying that groundwork. 

I liked the vocabulary drill with 48 words, 2 per alphabet character - in fact I liked it so much I built a Word List for the 48 and shared it with the Faithlife group of the course so people are able to use the Logos application or the mobile Flashcard app. The pictograms in the video are a cool visual way to help learning those words. I think I found one small error in it, though (textbook to the left, video resource to the right):

Since the wrong gloss is not referred to in the video, maybe FL can update this quickly.... (does this entitle me to a free copy of the full product? Wink )

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 16 2017 9:09 AM

NB.Mick:
I liked the vocabulary drill with 48 words, 2 per alphabet character

Can you help me find this?  I have not yet seen the vocal drills

Posts 853
Michael McLane | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 16 2017 10:51 AM

Thanks John, I did not mean to sound disgruntled, just a little disappointed. However, you did a kind job of explaining things.

A point of clarification, though. Are you saying that the current discounts, including the Back-to-School discount will remain valid until the whole package has shipped?

For instance, The Biblical Languages: Foundational Certificate Program is dynamically priced, with the Back-to-School discount, at $234.10. The Back-to-School part of that discounted price is $156.06 of the total discounted price. If I wait a couple of months to purchase, then I will not lose that discount?

Thanks for the clarification.

Posts 50
LogosEmployee
John Schwandt | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 16 2017 11:11 AM

No worries. Smile

You are correct.  The current 40% discount (or more through dynamic pricing if you own the Alphabet Tutor interactive through base package ownership) will continue on the two certificate bundles until all of the elements ship.  That is actually the reason you currently see a larger discount than 20% on those products even with only one product in your cart during the back to school promotion.

Posts 853
Michael McLane | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 16 2017 11:28 AM

thanks!

Posts 10030
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 16 2017 3:19 PM

Mark:

NB.Mick:
I liked the vocabulary drill with 48 words, 2 per alphabet character

Can you help me find this?  I have not yet seen the vocal drills

John helps us pronounce 2 words each beginning with every alphabet character in the next to last video, segment 7 - the textbook puts that into an appendix after the segment. The Word List is here for followers of the group.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 17 2017 8:02 AM

Thanks

Posts 853
Michael McLane | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 18 2017 9:21 AM

John, how would you compare the comprehensiveness of your course the Mounce's BBG and the video lectures by Zondervan on Logos? What material do you cover that he doesn't, vise versa, and why? What are you trying to accomplish? Do you attempt to cover as much or less than Mounce? Why?

I have read the product page in depth but would also like your take on these things. Thanks for your input.

Posts 1022
Keith Pang | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 18 2017 1:55 PM

Mounce's appears to be more in depth

Shalom, in Christ, Keith. Check out my music www.soundcloud.com/kpang808

Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 19 2017 7:03 AM

Keith Pang:

Mounce's appears to be more in depth

Hopefully John will respond

Posts 50
LogosEmployee
John Schwandt | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 21 2017 11:37 AM

Thanks for the question about how this program (Mobile Ed course and textbook) compares with Zondervan’s video lectures and books for Greek.  It is difficult for me to compare them too deeply since there isn’t much information on the Zondervan course description pages and a number of elements in the Mobile Ed course and text are still in development.  However, I do own a copy of Mounce’s text and can use that in this initial comparison.

Various points for comparison:

Package-

  1. The Mobile Ed Certificate Program has everything included
  2. It is difficult to tell if you have to purchase both the text book and the workbook separately in the Zondervan program.  I would love for someone to verify this for me.  If it is included how is it included?  Is it an e-book, or a hardcopy?  Does the student own it or rent it?

Access-

  1. You can own Mobile Ed courses and have them always available for reference and refreshers.
  2. The Zondervan courses are only available on subscription (currently 12 months).

Content (amount of grammar covered)-

  1. Both grammars and courses cover the standard amount of material expected in a typical seminary or university Greek course.
  2. There may be slight differences in terms of emphasis or treatment of some parts of the the grammar.  Typically, the parts of grammar that are introduced early in a textbook get more explanation than those at the end of a text since the later content can build upon the earlier teaching.
  3. The Mobile Ed Program and textbook provides a more comprehensive treatment of third declension forms.  This is the tradition of older school approaches like Machen and Nunn.
  4. Mounce probably has a longer treatment on perfect stem forms.  From a couple decades of use, he also added supplemental content such as exegetical insights from contributors. 

Approach-

  1. Both grammars use a diachronic approach with the aim to reduce rote memorization.  This is one of the many reasons Bill and I get along. J
  2. Mounce limits the aim for his text to teach only how to translate into English (one directional understanding.)  His text doesn’t have regular composition exercises.
  3. The Mobile Ed course and text aims to teach both how to translate into English and how to compose in Greek (bidirectional understanding.)  Students or teachers can choose to ignore the composition exercises and memorizing vocabulary in both directions, but the course and text provide this type of instruction for students who want to take their understanding to that depth.
  4. Mounce’s book is structured more on a reference grammar model and the Mobile Ed course follows Nunn’s classroom primer model.  The difference is that reference grammar models tend to provide everything they are going to say about an area of grammar and then move on to the next related area of grammar.  That is why Mounce doesn’t introduce verbs until nearly halfway through his program.  Another marker of this reference book approach is the topic numbering of paragraphs.
  5. The classroom primer approach works in waves through a varied amount of grammatical topics.  So the Mobile Ed course presents a basic treatment of verbs in the third lesson and then moves onto some noun forms.  Then goes back and adds more detail and depth as new topics are covered.  This allows students to start using the language faster and is similar to an approach for learning modern languages.

Length-

  1. The Mobile Ed course has a total of 15 hours of video but far more individual video segments (well over 100) than the Zondervan course.  So the video content is concise and focused on the content of nearly every lesson in the textbook.  The textbook isn’t published yet so I can’t compare its length to Mounce’s.  Another aspect that can’t be compared yet is the amount of content in links to other books in the Logos library system.  This is really what makes Mobile Ed different than all other programs.  The course isn’t tied to just one book or author’s opinion.  It is connected to library.  Mounce’s text hardly has any footnotes or references to classic works form other authors.  Also I’m looking forward to the Faihtlife Group integration with this course where I can interact with conversations within the transcript using community notes.  Those conversations will accessible to anyone working through the course and will grow with future students.  So the length of the content of this course will be somewhat dynamic.
  2. The Zondervan course is two separate 16 hour programs where Mounce covers material from groups of lessons in each one-hour unit.  I haven’t purchased it so I can’t comment on how concise and focused the lectures are.
Posts 853
Michael McLane | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 21 2017 1:26 PM

Thanks John, that answers a lot for me. I look forward to having it by the end of the year. Wink

Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 22 2017 10:55 AM

Thanks John for the explanation.  Just need a little help with what you wrote here:

John Schwandt:
The Zondervan courses are only available on subscription (currently 12 months).

According to this link, there is no hint that the course is available only by subscription.  it seems it is available for purchase.  Is there a mistake?

Posts 1835
Kenneth Neighoff | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 22 2017 11:10 AM

Mark:

Thanks John for the explanation.  Just need a little help with what you wrote here:

John Schwandt:
The Zondervan courses are only available on subscription (currently 12 months).

According to this link, there is no hint that the course is available only by subscription.  it seems it is available for purchase.  Is there a mistake?

https://courses.zondervanacademic.com/bibical-languages/basics-of-biblical-greek-1 

Here is the link.

Posts 1945
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 22 2017 12:12 PM

But is the video course also not offered as a download to keep here:

https://www.logos.com/product/34026/zondervan-biblical-languages-video-lectures ?

Posts 1835
Kenneth Neighoff | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 22 2017 12:13 PM

Yes,  the exact same course. 

Posts 1095
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 22 2017 12:15 PM

Mark:

But is the video course also not offered as a download to keep here:

https://www.logos.com/product/34026/zondervan-biblical-languages-video-lectures ?

It is, but the comparison John was making above related to certificate programs ( Zondervan vs Logos). Logos sells the BBG and BBH sets, but not as a program of study. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College
Mac OS 10.13.6 High Sierra, Mid 2015 iMac, 2.5GHz i7, 32 gbRAM, 1tbSSD

Page 2 of 4 (70 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next > | RSS