Israel and the Church

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This post has 22 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 879
P A | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, May 30 2017 10:17 AM

Hi

Are there any resources in Logos that compare different views of Israel and the Church.

Thank you

P A

Posts 3267
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 30 2017 11:30 AM

Not sure on comparison but a good view of one side 

https://vyrso.com/product/39445/has-the-church-replaced-israel 

Chafer's systematic theology has a large chunk dedicated to this as well

Posts 3192
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 30 2017 12:16 PM

This is a great book:

Sears, P. C. (2015). Heirs of Promise: The Church as the New Israel in Romans. (M. F. Bird, Ed.). Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

Posts 639
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 1 2017 10:11 AM

Donnie Hale:

That looks good, thanks for finding.

Posts 3252
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 2 2017 1:18 AM

James Hillstrand:

FYI, Dr. Fruchtenbaum will also be teaching on that topic in the upcoming Mobile Ed: TH293 Israelology: The Doctrine of Israel course.

Posts 777
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 2 2017 2:27 PM

PetahChristian:
Dr. Fruchtenbaum will also be teaching on that topic in the upcoming Mobile Ed: TH293 Israelology: The Doctrine of Israel course.

I am curious about the word "Israelology".  Can't find it in any of my dictionaries, never really ever heard it used before (until recently), and, although I see references to it when I do a DuckDuckGo search, it always seems to be associated with Fruchtenbaum and/or dispensationalists.  No Wikipedia entry that I can find.

Is there a history to this word or is it something that has recently been coined?  IOW, when did this term first appear?  Does anybody besides dispensationalists use the term?

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

Posts 3192
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 2 2017 2:48 PM

JRS:

PetahChristian:
Dr. Fruchtenbaum will also be teaching on that topic in the upcoming Mobile Ed: TH293 Israelology: The Doctrine of Israel course.

I am curious about the word "Israelology".  Can't find it in any of my dictionaries, never really ever heard it used before (until recently), and, although I see references to it when I do a DuckDuckGo search, it always seems to be associated with Fruchtenbaum and/or dispensationalists.  No Wikipedia entry that I can find.

Is there a history to this word or is it something that has recently been coined?  IOW, when did this term first appear?  Does anybody besides dispensationalists use the term?

This is basically a Dispy term and doctrine- came about in the 1800's.

Posts 6485
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 2 2017 2:52 PM

JRS:

PetahChristian:
Dr. Fruchtenbaum will also be teaching on that topic in the upcoming Mobile Ed: TH293 Israelology: The Doctrine of Israel course.

I am curious about the word "Israelology".  Can't find it in any of my dictionaries, never really ever heard it used before (until recently), and, although I see references to it when I do a DuckDuckGo search, it always seems to be associated with Fruchtenbaum and/or dispensationalists.  No Wikipedia entry that I can find.

Is there a history to this word or is it something that has recently been coined?  IOW, when did this term first appear?  Does anybody besides dispensationalists use the term?

It's a man made "theological word" just like Bibliology, Demonology, etc. to let you know you'll be studying Israel. Must be fairly new as this is the first time I see it.  Once it picks up steam, it will get added to some dictionary of "theological terms" somewhere in the future. 😁

DAL

Posts 777
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 2 2017 3:29 PM

Thank you, Whyndell and DAL.  

Searching my L7 library I can find several journal references for the term and, generally speaking, they all seem to be reviews of, or otherwise point to, Fruchtenbaum's Israelology: The Missing Link in Systematic Theology (1989).  I do not know with any certainty if this is the genesis of the term but it would seem that if it is, it hasn't caught on in the past 28 years outside of dispensational circles (despite Fruchtenbaum's bold Missing Link assertion) - but I could be completely wrong about that.

I'm just curious is all.

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

Posts 691
Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 3 2017 3:53 AM

I believe it was coined by Fruchtenbaum. Although it is a logical word to include as Israel is a significant and pervasive theme in Biblical Theology.

It has been taken up by a number of scholars and although linked via Fruchtenbaum to his belief in a dispensational biblical overview it stands independent of that view.

Many terms are 'invented' by individuals to simplify their theological discussion of various issues. They act like a short hand for a particular understanding. so we shouldn't be surprised at this one.

Regards Kevin

Posts 3192
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 4 2017 9:18 AM

Personally since the Church is the True Israel, I'm totally at odds with his speculations. So his use of terms whether his or another's is irrelevant in light of Scripture- which directly points to the fact only the church are God's true people.

Posts 801
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 4 2017 11:17 AM

Donnie Hale:

I can attest to the value of this particular resource.

Posts 3252
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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 4 2017 12:21 PM

Whyndell Grizzard:

Personally since the Church is the True Israel, I'm totally at odds with his speculations. So his use of terms whether his or another's is irrelevant in light of Scripture- which directly points to the fact only the church are God's true people.

Why does Romans describe Israel as the natural branches of a cultivated olive tree, and Gentiles as the branches from a wild olive tree which have been grafted in?

He he abandoned Israel (His chosen people, His own inheritance)? Has he stopped being the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? Is He no longer the Holy One of Israel?

Posts 5091
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 4 2017 1:36 PM

Petah you took the hook and are now are engaging a debate about a theological issue rather than one about FL or its products. It would be best to take this conversation to ChristianDiscource or some other more appropriate forum.

PetahChristian:

Whyndell Grizzard:

Personally since the Church is the True Israel, I'm totally at odds with his speculations. So his use of terms whether his or another's is irrelevant in light of Scripture- which directly points to the fact only the church are God's true people.

Why does Romans describe Israel as the natural branches of a cultivated olive tree, and Gentiles as the branches from a wild olive tree which have been grafted in?

He he abandoned Israel (His chosen people, His own inheritance)? Has he stopped being the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? Is He no longer the Holy One of Israel?

Posts 451
Dave Moser | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 4 2017 3:36 PM

P A:
Hi

Are there any resources in Logos that compare different views of Israel and the Church.

Thank you

P A

The suggestions thus far have all revolved around books about this particular issue. That's helpful, but an incomplete sample of resources Logos offers to address this question. I'd also suggest:

Posts 3192
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 4 2017 3:56 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):

Petah you took the hook and are now are engaging a debate about a theological issue rather than one about FL or its products. It would be best to take this conversation to ChristianDiscource or some other more appropriate forum.

PetahChristian:

Whyndell Grizzard:

Personally since the Church is the True Israel, I'm totally at odds with his speculations. So his use of terms whether his or another's is irrelevant in light of Scripture- which directly points to the fact only the church are God's true people.

Why does Romans describe Israel as the natural branches of a cultivated olive tree, and Gentiles as the branches from a wild olive tree which have been grafted in?

He he abandoned Israel (His chosen people, His own inheritance)? Has he stopped being the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? Is He no longer the Holy One of Israel?

Love fishing! :)

Posts 10
James Hillstrand | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 4 2017 11:59 PM

PetahChristian:

James Hillstrand:

FYI, Dr. Fruchtenbaum will also be teaching on that topic in the upcoming Mobile Ed: TH293 Israelology: The Doctrine of Israel course.

Pretty interesting! Thanks

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