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Posts 158
Fred | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:11 AM
What does one do to hide or delete resources that Logos4 just doesn't seem to "want" to be be hidden or deleted?
I have nine resources that I have tried hiding, and that I have also tried hiding and then deleting, but which Logos4 immediately downloads and restores each and every time I have tried.  They happen to be all "old" Logos3 resources (files with *.lbxlls names), and not newer Logos4 resources.  Eight of them are monographs and one of them is a commentary, although I don't think that should matter.  I have previously successfully hidden and then deleted a larger number of other similar resources, but these nine particular resources "just won't go away". I seemingly can drag the titles from my Library into the Hidden Resources box in Program Settings in order to hide them.  But, when Logos4 is restarted, they are all downloaded and restored - they cannot actually be hidden at all. I can also seemingly drag the titles from my Library into the Hidden Resources box in Program Settings to hide them, and then right-click on each of them to delete them using the Delete command (which does visually remove each title from the Hidden Resources box).  But, when Logos4 is restarted, they all get downloaded and restored - they cannot actually be hidden and then deleted. Not surprisingly, if I manually delete the actual files on the hard drive, they all get downloaded and restored when Logos4 is restarted - they cannot be physically permanently deleted. As an experiment, I even tried replacing each file with an identically named small dummy text file, and - not surprisingly - Logos4 "recognized" that they were improper files and they all were re-downloaded and "properly" restored when Logos4 was restarted.  (It seems as if Logos4 is "smart" enough to recognize illegal files, but not "smart" enough to consistently apply all of the legal user commands it is supposed to follow.) In case it is relevant, this behavior occurs identically on both my laptop and my desktop PC's (both with Win XP Pro SP3).  I should also note that on both PC's I also have Logos3 installations that do not have these nine files present in their Logos3 Resources directories. Now I know that some might say "why bother?" or perhaps "heck, disk space is cheap nowadays", and to just ignore these resources.  However, this is a matter of Logos4 functionality that is ~not~ functioning correctly (consistently), and it ought to be addressed as a software problem, and not as a theological problem (or as a psychological problem - Smile ).  For the purposes of this software forum, it really shouldn't matter which nine titles they happen to be, or even that there are "only" nine of them.  Logos4 is a great piece of software, and I am merely trying to make it work better. So, how does one hide, or hide and then delete, "stubborn" resources?  (Thanks.) Fred

Fred

Posts 158
Fred | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:18 AM
Oops - well, I can see that one cannot just simply copy and paste from a text editor (with spell checking) into the forum editor.  So, sorry about the "monster paragraph"!  Let me try to repost with some formatting: What does one do to hide or delete resources that Logos4 just doesn't seem to "want" to be be hidden or deleted? I have nine resources that I have tried hiding, and that I have also tried hiding and then deleting, but which Logos4 immediately downloads and restores each and every time I have tried.  They happen to be all "old" Logos3 resources (files with *.lbxlls names), and not newer Logos4 resources.  Eight of them are monographs and one of them is a commentary, although I don't think that should matter.  I have previously successfully hidden and then deleted a larger number of other similar resources, but these nine particular resources "just won't go away". I seemingly can drag the titles from my Library into the Hidden Resources box in Program Settings in order to hide them.  But, when Logos4 is restarted, they are all downloaded and restored - they cannot actually be hidden at all. I can also seemingly drag the titles from my Library into the Hidden Resources box in Program Settings to hide them, and then right-click on each of them to delete them using the Delete command (which does visually remove each title from the Hidden Resources box).  But, when Logos4 is restarted, they all get downloaded and restored - they cannot actually be hidden and then deleted. Not surprisingly, if I manually delete the actual files on the hard drive, they all get downloaded and restored when Logos4 is restarted - they cannot be physically permanently deleted. As an experiment, I even tried replacing each file with an identically named small dummy text file, and - not surprisingly - Logos4 "recognized" that they were improper files and they all were re-downloaded and "properly" restored when Logos4 was restarted.  (It seems as if Logos4 is "smart" enough to recognize illegal files, but not "smart" enough to consistently apply all of the legal user commands it is supposed to follow.) In case it is relevant, this behavior occurs identically on both my laptop and my desktop PC's (both with Win XP Pro SP3).  I should also note that on both PC's I also have Logos3 installations that do not have these nine files present in their Logos3 Resources directories. Now I know that some might say "why bother?" or perhaps "heck, disk space is cheap nowadays", and to just ignore these resources.  However, this is a matter of Logos4 functionality that is ~not~ functioning correctly (consistently), and it ought to be addressed as a software problem, and not as a theological problem (or as a psychological problem - Smile ).  For the purposes of this software forum, it really shouldn't matter which nine titles they happen to be, or even that there are "only" nine of them.  Logos4 is a great piece of software, and I am merely trying to make it work better. So, how does one hide, or hide and then delete, "stubborn" resources?  (Thanks.) Fred

Fred

Posts 158
Fred | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:19 AM

OK, I give up...

Fred

Posts 2693
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:57 AM

putting them in Hidden and restarting should remove them, just deleting the files is not enough

If you have are able to post the logs the technical guys may have an answer.

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 8:11 AM

FrederickWasti:
For the purposes of this software forum, it really shouldn't matter which nine titles they happen to be, or even that there are "only" nine of them.  Logos4 is a great piece of software, and I am merely trying to make it work better. So, how does one hide, or hide and then delete, "stubborn" resources?  (Thanks.) Fred

Open to panes side by side. Open the "Program Settings" tab in one and open the "Library" in a new tab (right click on the library icon and choose), and drag that tab to a a pan parallel to the one with the "Program Settings" tab.

Now scroll to the bottom of the "Program settings" tab and click on the arrow next to the section called "Hidden Resources."

From your Library select the books you want to hide by clicking anywhere except on the title of the book (clicking on "Author" works fine /  if you click the title you may accidentally open the book!), and dragging it to the window under "Hidden Resources."

After you finish hiding your unwanted resources. Restart Logos4.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 158
Fred | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 8:47 AM

Hi, Dominic.  Thanks for replying.

I understand that deleting the files is not enough (although I did try it as an experiment).

I ~did~ try the "proper" way to hide and delete, using the Logos4 interface (dragging the titles from my Library into the Hidden Resources box in Program Settings in order to hide them, and also right-clicking on each of them, in the  Hidden Resources box in Program Settings, in order to to delete them using the Delete command, which did visually remove each title from the Hidden Resources box), but Logos4 kept restoring them after each restart.

The "proper" way to hide and delete worked fine for most resources I wanted to remove - it just doesn't work for these particular nine resources.

Fred

Fred

Posts 158
Fred | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 8:54 AM

Hi, Richard - thanks for your reply.

I understand what you are saying - I ~did~ try the method you described (except for the side-by-side pane part, which would be a convenience, I can see), (please see my reply to Dominic's suggestion for details).  I ~did~ successfully remove a number of other resources using the basic method that you and Dominic and I have described - it just doesn't work for these nine particular resources.

Fred

Fred

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 9:10 AM

FrederickWasti:

Hi, Dominic.  Thanks for replying.

I understand that deleting the files is not enough (although I did try it as an experiment).

I ~did~ try the "proper" way to hide and delete, using the Logos4 interface (dragging the titles from my Library into the Hidden Resources box in Program Settings in order to hide them, and also right-clicking on each of them, in the  Hidden Resources box in Program Settings, in order to to delete them using the Delete command, which did visually remove each title from the Hidden Resources box), but Logos4 kept restoring them after each restart.

The "proper" way to hide and delete worked fine for most resources I wanted to remove - it just doesn't work for these particular nine resources.

Fred

Logos4 is supposed to remove hidden resources from your directory (you shouldn't need to do it manually).

I just did an experiment with a resource, unhiding and rehiding it. I found that I had to restart Logos4 twice for the resource to be hidden, and for Logos4 to delete the resource. The first time I restarted Logos4 the 'offending' resource was in both the Hidden Resource pane and the Library Pane. Restarting again wiped the resource from the directory and removed it from my Library.

If you haven't tried this, just hide, without deleting anything. Restart Logos 4 twice and see if they stay hidden, and then look to see if Logos removes it from your resource directory.

NOTE: this is not documented behavior. It's supposed to hide and delete after the first restart. I'll have to do some more playing around, but it could be a bug, or it may be something else (I'm on 4.0c beta 1 on this machine).

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 9:15 AM

FrederickWasti:

Hi, Richard - thanks for your reply.

I understand what you are saying - I ~did~ try the method you described (except for the side-by-side pane part, which would be a convenience, I can see), (please see my reply to Dominic's suggestion for details).  I ~did~ successfully remove a number of other resources using the basic method that you and Dominic and I have described - it just doesn't work for these nine particular resources.

Fred

After you've tried my method above, if they still come back, I have one more thought: are the resources present in your L3 resource directory? If so, what happens if you move those resources to a different location, or delete them, and then hide them in L4 and restart L4 twice?

If all that fails, list the resources here and we'll see if anyone else has the same behavior with those recalcitrant 9.

 

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 2693
DominicM | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 9:48 AM

which titles? we may be able to try and replicate

Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have

Posts 158
Fred | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 11:06 AM

Hello again, Dominic and Richard.

The nine files (listed below) are ~not~ in my Logos3 Resources directory (on either the laptop or the desktop).

OK, here's my latest set of attempts (on the laptop):

  1. With Logos4 running (obviously), I hid the nine resources (and I used the quicker "side-by-side panes" method this time).
  2. I restarted Logos 4, and turned off indexing (for four hours) right away (using the Tray icon).
  3. The "Preparing your library" "This may take a while" (it did) splash screen appeared.  After maybe ten minutes of staring at the splash screen, I turned indexing on, and as soon as the splash screen went away (it did so quickly, finally), I turned indexing off once again.  Then I had to turn off indexing again, as it had started up again on its own.
  4. I checked my Library - the nine titles were gone.  I checked Hidden Resources - the nine titles were listed there.
  5. Then I had to re-turn off indexing, as it had started up again on its own.
  6. I restarted Logos4 (and did not have to turn off indexing again this time - it stayed off on it sown).
  7. I deleted all nine resources from the Hidden Resources box.
  8. I restarted - none of the nine appeared in my Library, and none of the nine was listed in Hidden Resources.  However, then the tray icon popped up the all-too-familiar message that Logos was downloading 24.4 MB of resources, and then, a short time later, up popped the all-too-familiar message that Logos  was ready to install them, and to restart.
  9. I restarted, and - surprise! (NOT!) - all nine resources were back in my Library once again.

Anyway, here are the nine resource titles (and filenames):

  • Becoming a Leader After God’s Heart : A Study of 1 & 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles - LDRGDHRT.lbxlls
  • Everyday Wisdom for Everlasting Life : A Study of Proverbs - EVDYWSDM.lbxlls
  • Exploring the Depths of Life and Love : A study of Job, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon - EXPLDPTH.lbxlls
  • Hayford’s Bible Handbook - HFORDHBK.lbxlls
  • Passing Faith's Tests with Love and Joy : A study of James, 1&2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude - FAITHTST.lbxlls
  • Receiving or Refusing God's Glory : A study of 1 & 2 Kings and 2 Chronicles - RCVREFUS.lbxlls
  • Restoring and Renewing the People of God : A Study of Ezra & Nehemiah - RESTRENW.lbxlls
  • Spirit filled life study Bible - sflstbib.lbxlls
  • Welcoming the Saving Reign of God : A study of Isaiah - SAVNGRGN.lbxlls

I appreciate your (extended) efforts to help a frustrated Logos4 user (who loves Logos4 ~most~ of the time) - thanks.

Fred

Fred

Posts 158
Fred | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 12:37 PM

RE:  "The "Preparing your library" "This may take a while" (it did) splash screen appeared.  After maybe ten minutes of staring at the splash screen, I turned indexing on, and as soon as the splash screen went away (it did so quickly, finally), I turned indexing off once again."

I should point out that this was ~not~ normal behavior for me - it was probably just a fluke, and probably due to me  being so aggressive (during just this latest experiment) to prevent indexing and to prevent downloading resources (in an attempt to get "two restarts" to take place, as suggested).  Ordinarily, Logos4 does ~not~ "hang" when loading at all for me (in fact, this may have been the first ever time).

Fred

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 4:32 PM

A few things stand out from your description:-

FrederickWasti:
I seemingly can drag the titles from my Library into the Hidden Resources box in Program Settings in order to hide them.  But, when Logos4 is restarted, they are all downloaded and restored - they cannot actually be hidden at all.

I hid Hayford's Bible Handbook and it was gone from my Library when L4 restarted. It was not re-instated AND it does exist in L3. This is standard behaviour.

FrederickWasti:
I can also seemingly drag the titles from my Library into the Hidden Resources box in Program Settings to hide them, and then right-click on each of them to delete them using the Delete command (which does visually remove each title from the Hidden Resources box).  But, when Logos4 is restarted, they all get downloaded and restored - they cannot actually be hidden and then deleted.

The Delete command is very misleading. The right click menu actually states "Unhide Delete", which means that the Delete key will Unhide the resource, so it's not surprising what happened when you tried it!

I clicked on "Unhide Delete" and Hayford was restored to my Library (from L3!) when I restarted. 

So the Hidden Resources feature is working as expected for me.

I would like you to repeat my experiment with Hayford:

  • ensure indexing is complete
  • turn on permanent logging as per http://wiki.logos.com/Diagnostic_Logging
  • Note the number of resources in Library
  • Hide Hayford's resource & allow Sync activity to complete (the circular arrows have stopped spinning)
  • Restart L4
  • Check the Library count & check if Hayford's is listed in Library
  • Upload the logos4Indexer.log as per Uploading Logs with a description of the result (don't restart L4 until you've done this)

Dave
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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 5:07 PM

FrederickWasti:
RE:  "The "Preparing your library" "This may take a while" (it did) splash screen appeared.  After maybe ten minutes of staring at the splash screen, I turned indexing on, and as soon as the splash screen went away (it did so quickly, finally), I turned indexing off once again."

What do you mean when you say that you "turned indexing on?" Do you mean that you let the indexer in your system tray continue after pausing indexing? Or do you mean that you typed a command in the command bar (which one)?

The "Preparing your library" screen is expected behavior when restarting Logos after adding or hiding titles.

Please clarify what you are describing yourself doing above, as this could relate to your problem here.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 158
Fred | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 5:30 PM

Richard DeRuiter:

FrederickWasti:
RE:  "The "Preparing your library" "This may take a while" (it did) splash screen appeared.  After maybe ten minutes of staring at the splash screen, I turned indexing on, and as soon as the splash screen went away (it did so quickly, finally), I turned indexing off once again."

What do you mean when you say that you "turned indexing on?" Do you mean that you let the indexer in your system tray continue after pausing indexing? Or do you mean that you typed a command in the command bar (which one)?

If indexing is going on, I can turn it off by right-clicking on the Tray icon and left-clicking on "Pause indexing for 4 hours".

If indexing has been paused, I can turn it on again by right-clicking on the Tray icon and left-clicking on "Resume indexing".

The above are what I have been referring to when I mention turning indexing off and turning it on.

Richard DeRuiter:

The "Preparing your library" screen is expected behavior when restarting Logos after adding or hiding titles.

Please clarify what you are describing yourself doing above, as this could relate to your problem here.

I ~know~ that the "Preparing your library" screen is normal - I've seen it many times, but only for very short periods as Logos4 is loading.  Why I mentioned the above (that you quoted) is that, for that ~one~ time, loading seemed to be hung at that point, probably because I had interrupted it by stopping indexing too quickly.  Why I made my "extra" comment about the screen was that I was trying to ~emphasize~ that it was ~unlikely~ to have anything to do with anything - Smile.  I was merely trying to point out that the screen's appearing and hanging (for just that one time) is ~not~ related to the problem I am describing.  (Considering the confusion that it seems to be causing, I probably shouldn't have even mentioned it at all, but I was trying to give a complete description of my experiment.)

Fred

Fred

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 5:36 PM

FrederickWasti:
I ~know~ that the "Preparing your library" screen is normal - I've seen it many times, but only for very short periods as Logos4 is loading.  Why I mentioned the above (that you quoted) is that, for that ~one~ time, loading seemed to be hung at that point, probably because I had interrupted it by stopping indexing too quickly.  Why I made my "extra" comment about the screen was that I was trying to ~emphasize~ that it was ~unlikely~ to have anything to do with anything - Smile.  I was merely trying to point out that the screen's appearing and hanging (for just that one time) is ~not~ related to the problem I am describing.  (Considering the confusion that it seems to be causing, I probably shouldn't have even mentioned it at all, but I was trying to give a complete description of my experiment.)

Okay, I thought that's what you were doing.

Let indexing finish completely before hiding/unhiding resources as this can have unexpected results.

So far I haven't heard of anyone else having your particular problem, so I'm still baffled. But let's get the variable of an incomplete indexing process out of the way before trying to figure this out further.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 158
Fred | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:15 PM

Dave Hooton:

The Delete command is very misleading. The right click menu actually states "Unhide Delete", which means that the Delete key will Unhide the resource, so it's not surprising what happened when you tried it!

Hi, Dave.  Thanks for jumping in.

Well, I think you have pointed out what is at least ~most~ of my problem, which is a confusion:

My assumption has been that the Delete function ~deleted~ the resource, ~not~ that it ~unhid~ the resource.  My assumption was that Unhide was one command and that Delete was another,  My mistake was in thinking that Delete meant "delete".  Why did I ~ever~ think ~that~?  Smile  Well, I do have to agree - it is ~indeed~ "very misleading"!!!  Confused

Question:  Is "Hiding" resources ~supposed~ to actually remove them from the hard drive or not?

Thanks.

Fred

Fred

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:24 PM

FrederickWasti:

Question:  Is "Hiding" resources supposed~ to remove them from the hard drive or not?

Once you hide the resource it will be deleted from the hard drive when you restart L4. But I wouldn't  do this whilst indexing is under way.

Dave
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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 31 2010 8:39 PM

FrederickWasti:

Dave Hooton:

The Delete command is very misleading. The right click menu actually states "Unhide Delete", which means that the Delete key will Unhide the resource, so it's not surprising what happened when you tried it!

Hi, Dave.  Thanks for jumping in.

Well, I think you have pointed out what is at least ~most~ of my problem, which is a confusion:

My assumption has been that the Delete function ~deleted~ the resource, ~not~ that it ~unhid~ the resource.  My assumption was that Unhide was one command and that Delete was another,  My mistake was in thinking that Delete meant "delete".  Why did I ~ever~ think ~that~?  Smile  Well, I do have to agree - it is ~indeed~ "very misleading"!!!  Confused

 

Question:  Is "Hiding" resources ~supposed~ to actually remove them from the hard drive or not?

Thanks.

Fred

Yes. Hiding the resource deletes it from the hard drive.

"Delete" in the hidden resource menu deletes the file name from the hidden resource list.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 158
Fred | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 2 2010 6:17 AM

Hello again, Dave and Richard.

It does appear that the poorly named (I would say) "Unhide Delete" command does work as you have described, and ~NOT~ as I ~expected~ it to.  (That is to say that I saw "them" as ~two~ commands, and when I attempted to delete a hidden resource (to remove it from my hard drive), all I was doing was ~unhiding~ it, which restored the resource to my hard drive and relisted it in my Library.  So, for me, it was a case of unintended or unexpected consequences - Huh?.

Since this entire thread resulted from my own misinterpretation of a Logos4 command, I do apologize for creating extra work for you people (and for Dominic), all of whom tried to figure out what I was talking about.  I am sorry for the proverbial wild goose chase.

In my defense, I don't think the Logos4 interface is clear about this:

1.  Although one can drag a resource from Library to Hidden Resources, is there any visual indication that "hiding" actually deletes the resource from the hard drive?  (To me, "hiding" infers that it is, well, just "hidden", but is otherwise intact.)

2.  I do ~not~ think that it is clear that Delete is just a synonym for Unhide (and I may not be the only user to misinterpret this).  Delete is written in smaller letters, appearing (at least to me) as if it is a different and perhaps less frequently used command (which would be logical, since the action of deleting a resource, as I interpreted it, would be different from "merely" hiding or unhiding a resource).  Resting the mouse over the Unhide and Delete command(s) does not seem to produce any explanatory tooltip(s) for clarification.

On the other hand, upon further investigation (beyond my merely hoping for tooltips), I found that it does say the following in the Logos4 F1 help file (I ~now~ notice):

"2. Drag resources you want to hide from the Library panel to this section. (Tip: Open Library in panel next to Program Settings panel.)"  [and]

"3. Restart Logos 4 for changes to take effect. Indexing will run for a short time. (Note: The hidden resource’s book file will be deleted, so if you are low on hard drive space, you can just hide a resource without having to locate its book file to delete it manually. When the resource is unhidden, it will be rediscovered and downloaded automatically after restarting Logos 4.)"

Obviously, if I had read the above, I would not have started this thread - Smile.

So, I do apologize to you for the extra attention my misinterpretation caused.  And, I hope that this (hopefully final) message will help anyone else that stumbles onto this forum thread...

Fred

Fred

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