Pillar NT or Tyndale (Whole Bible)

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Posts 479
Liam & Abi Maguire | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jul 12 2017 1:14 PM

Hi all, 

Looking for some insight on the following decision. I can't decide whether to get the Pillar NT series whilst it is on sale or whether I should get the Tyndale series on the whole Bible. 

For context, I already own some of the Pillar series and the entire (old) Expositors Bible Commentary series. I also own Romans and Hebrews in the NINCT series. I consider myself very theologically literate (UK university graduate), esp. in Reformed theology, a good grasp of biblical theology, and a passable understanding (if not fluency) in Greek. I also preach fairly regularly (~twice monthly) and lead bible studies weekly.

Would Tyndale offer what I am looking for? Would it scratch where I am itching, over against the Pillar series? Are future titles in the PNT included in my purchase?

Wisdom welcomed and sought.

Thanks.

Carpe verbum.

Posts 1936
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 12 2017 1:21 PM

LMAM:
Wisdom welcomed and sought

In my opinion Pillar would be more advanced/academic and useful for Seminary papers, Tyndale is intermediate level and would be more profitable in sermon prep for laymen.

Just my 2 cents.

Dave

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 5314
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 12 2017 1:24 PM

LMAM:

 Are future titles in the PNT included in my purchase?

Future titles are not included. You are only paying for what is currently listed on the web page as being a part of the package.

I will leave your other questions to those who feel qualified to respond to them.

Posts 503
Richard Villanueva | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 12 2017 1:30 PM

Does your dynamic pricing on SDA Gold warrant a purchase? It has both. Cool

MBPro'12 / i5 / 8GB // 3.0 Scholars (Purple) / L6 & L7 Platinum, M&E Platinum, Anglican Bronze, P&C Silver / L8 Platinum, Academic Pro

Posts 245
BriM | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 12 2017 1:55 PM

It isn't that clear what your priorities are - academic or preaching/bible studies - but there are some clear differences between the sets.

The Tyndale set covers OT and NT, whilst Pillar only has some of the NT. Both have some very good scholars and some highly recommended volumes, but Pillar is generally more up to date.

Pillar is more in-depth and has a greater focus on Greek, at least in the volumes I've used. Generally, if studying a passage, I'll try to read both, but whether I do or not tends to depend on who was writing the individual volume. Whilst Pillar is usually more detailed, a particularly good Tyndale volume can make me prefer that for some books. I use both of them much more than the expositor's

You didn't say what library (if any) you have. Tyndale commentaries are currently in Silver and above, which represents the cheapest you'll probably ever be able to find them (90% discount) assuming the incremental cost of getting Silver, and the other stuff in it are to your taste. 13 of the 15 Pillar volumes are included in Gold or above. If it's a similar price, or only a little more, to get the library then the extra stuff you get with them makes them very good value - remember to factor in the current Summer sale discount and rebate (until 19 July).

If you buy Pillar (or any other commentary set) now, it will NOT include future additions above what are listed on the product page.

Remember, you get a 30 day return policy, so you could try one of the sets and see if it suits you.

Posts 479
Liam & Abi Maguire | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 12 2017 3:10 PM

Thanks for quick response. 

Some clarifications.

1. I preach in a local church, and lead bible studies but read widely and academically in my personal reading and study. I have no bones about going to academic books during sermon/study prep. 

2. Base packages are beyond my budget, I have max £200 to play with. 

3. Currently leaning towards TBC over PNT but notice that many titles in TBC are much older than in PNT. Am I simply suffering from 'new broom' syndrome here, ie. it is newer, therefore it must be better.

4. I have an old Logos 5(?) Gold - Scholar base package, with a smattering of other commentaries, dictionaries, theology books, etc.

Keep the advice coming. 

Carpe verbum.

Posts 913
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 12 2017 3:17 PM

Tyndale is a much less academic commentary than Pillar. Pillar is the best of scholarship, while Tyndale is pitched at the less trained, but demonstrates consistent orthodoxy and clarity of prose. The volume on the letters to John is considered one of the best in both sets, so this probably makes a particularly nice comparison (although Tyndale is, in my opinion, less consistent), but I picked the passage at random. If there is a section you would like to see, let me know. They are really different tools for different occasions. Generally, I would suggest Pillar. But if the commentaries mentioned are all you have, I would go with Tyndale, to have acceptably good coverage of the whole Bible, and excellent coverage of parts.

5. THIRD APPLICATION OF THE TESTS (4:7–5:5)


a. A further elaboration of the social test: love (4:7–12)

In 3:23 John summarized God’s commands in terms of believing in Christ and loving one another. He has unfolded in 4:1–6 some of the implications of believing in Christ; he now turns abruptly to the subject of mutual love. In Tyndale’s words, ‘John singeth his old song again.’ For it is the third time in the letter that he takes up and applies the supreme test of love. (See also 2:7–11 and 3:11–18.) Each time the test is more searching. In this third treatment John is concerned to relate the love which should be in us not to the true light which is already shining (2:8, 10), nor to the eternal life of which it is the evidence (3:14–15) but to God’s very nature of love and to his loving activity in Christ and in us. ‘Here the epistle rises to the summit of all revelation’ (Law).
The refrain of the paragraph is the reflexive love one another. It occurs three times—as an exhortation (7, ‘let us love one another’), as a statement of duty (11, ‘we also ought to love one another’; cf. 2:6; 3:16), and as a hypothesis (12, ‘if we love each other …’). What John is at pains to demonstrate is the ground of this imperative obligation. Why is reciprocal love the plain duty of Christians? It is, as he began to say in 3:16, that God has revealed himself to us in Jesus Christ as self-sacrificial love. God is love in himself (8, 16); God has loved us in Christ (10–11); and God continues to love in and through us (12–13); these are the reasons why we must love each other.
7–8. The Greek sentence in verse 7 opens with a striking assonance: agapētoi agapōmen (‘Beloved, let us love’, RSV). Here and in v. 11 (cf. 2:7) the author practises what he preaches. In urging them to love each other, he begins by assuring them of his own love for them. He then continues by developing his first argument for brotherly love, which is based on God’s eternal nature. He states it twice, first, for love comes from God (7) and secondly, because God is love (8). Since God is the source and origin (ek) of love and all true love derives from him, it stands to reason that everyone who loves, that is, loves either God or neighbour with that selfless devotion which alone is true love according to John’s teaching, has been born of God and knows God (7). Not only is God the source of all true love; he is love in his inmost being. There are three other statements in the New Testament concerning what God is in substance and nature: he is ‘spirit’ (John 4:24), ‘light’ (1 John 1:5) and ‘a consuming fire’ (Heb. 12:29 from Deut. 4:24). The Gnostics believed that God is immaterial spirit and light, but they never taught that God is love. It is the most comprehensive and sublime of all biblical affirmations about God’s being, and is repeated here twice (8, 16). Nevertheless, it is important to hold the biblical assertions about God together. It is true that the words God is love mean not that loving is ‘only one of God’s many activities’ (Alexander) but rather that ‘all his activity is loving activity’ and that, therefore, ‘if He judges, He judges in love’ (Dodd). Yet, if his judging is in love, his loving is also in justice. He who is love is light and fire as well. Far from condoning sin, his love has found a way to expose it (because he is light) and to consume it (because he is fire) without destroying the sinner, but rather saving him.
From the truth that God is love John draws a further deduction, not now positive and inclusive like that of verse 7, but negative and exclusive: whoever does not love does not know God. The argument is plain and compelling. For the loveless Christian to profess to know God and to have been born of God is like claiming to be intimate with a foreigner whose language we cannot speak, or to have been born of parents whom we do not in any way resemble. It is to fail to manifest the nature of him whom we claim as our Father (born of God) and our Friend (knows God). Love is as much a sign of Christian authenticity as is righteousness (2:29).
If John grounds his first argument for mutual love on God’s eternal nature, he bases his second (9–11) on his historical gift. The God who is love (8) ‘loved us’ (10) and expressed his love by sending his Son to earth. While the origin of love is in the being of God, the manifestation of love is in the coming of Christ. And, John writes, ‘since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another’ (11). This time the duty of reciprocal love is enforced not merely by the abstract truth that God is love, but by the concrete fact that he ‘showed his love among us’ by sending ‘his one and only Son into the world’ for us (9). It should be added that the concept of God ‘sending’ his Son (9–10, 14) ‘involves the doctrine of Christ’s pre-existence and divinity’ (Ebrard) in addition to the doctrine of the love of God. John is already hinting at the organic relation between his doctrinal and social tests which he elaborates later.


John R. W. Stott, The Letters of John: An Introduction and Commentary, vol. 19, Tyndale New Testament Commentaries (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1988), 160–162.

4:7–5:4A CLAIMS TO LOVE GOD TESTED BY LOVE FOR FELLOW BELIEVERS

Following 4:1–6, in which the author provided criteria that his readers could use to ‘test the spirits’, he returns to the theme of loving one another expounded in 3:11–24 and develops it further in 4:7–21. The structure of this passage and the progression of thought within it are difficult to explain, even though the smaller units which make it up are easy to identify: (i) 4:7a: the exhortation to love one another; (ii) 4:7b–8: the assertion that those who practise love know God, while those who do not practise love do not know God; (iii) 4:9–11: the demonstration of God’s love in the sending of his Son as an atoning sacrifice, and the resulting obligation on the part of believers to love one another; (iv) 4:12–13: love for fellow believers is evidence that people dwell in (the unseen) God and God in them; (v) 4:14–15: belief in Jesus as the Son of God and Saviour is also evidence of this mutual indwelling; (vi) 4:16: believers know the love God has for them, and dwelling in love themselves is evidence that they dwell in God and God in them; (vii) 4:17–18: believers who are perfected in love have confidence and experience no fear as they face the day of judgement; (viii) 4:19–20: we love God because he loved us, but to say that we love God without loving one another means we are liars; (ix) 4:21: a reiteration of the obligation that those who say they love God should love one another also.173
4:7a Returning to the theme he was addressing before the digression concerning testing the spirits (4:1–6), the author now says, Dear friends, let us love one another. He addresses his readers as ‘dear friends’ (agapētoi), expressing something of his affection for them and introducing a matter for which he wants their special attention, as he frequently does in this letter (2:7; 3:2, 21; 4:1, 7, 11).174 The author not only exhorts his readers to love one another, but he also provides a reason for them to do so: for love comes from God. The significance of this statement is teased out in 4:9–10, where the historical expression of God’s love is explained.
4:7b–8 Before the author explains the nature of the love that comes from God (vv. 9–10), he draws an important conclusion from the fact of that love: Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. His point is that love for one another is evidence that a person ‘has been born of God and knows God’ because such love comes from God. The converse is also true: Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. The point here is that the absence of love for one another is evidence that a person does not know God, because God is love, and there can be no real knowledge of God which is not expressed in love for fellow believers.
As indicated in the commentary on 2:29 above, the meaning of the expression ‘born of God’ is best explained by reference to the Fourth Gospel. John 1:12–13 emphasises that people become children of God, not by natural birth, but by being born of God. In John 3 Jesus tells Nicodemus that he must be born ‘from above’, and this is equivalent to being ‘born of the Spirit’. Being born of God, then, is quite distinct from natural human procreation. It is brought about by God through his Spirit, in conjunction with faith in Christ on the part of those concerned.
When the author says that ‘God is love’, he is not making an ontological statement describing what God is in his essence; rather, he is, as the following verses (4:9–10) reveal, speaking about the loving nature of God revealed in saving action on behalf of humankind.175 Verse 9 speaks of God showing his love by sending his Son so that people might have life through him, and verse 10 explains that this involved sending his Son as an atoning sacrifice for people’s sins.


Colin G. Kruse, The Letters of John, The Pillar New Testament Commentary (Grand Rapids, MI; Leicester, England: W.B. Eerdmans Pub.; Apollos, 2000), 156–157.

Posts 1357
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 12 2017 9:56 PM

David Thomas:

LMAM:
Wisdom welcomed and sought

In my opinion Pillar would be more advanced/academic and useful for Seminary papers, Tyndale is intermediate level and would be more profitable in sermon prep for laymen.

Just my 2 cents.

Dave

My philosophy is to develop a "wishlist", which Logos helps you to click on that when looking at titles. Rank them in priority.

Logos is known for running lots of sales. I've built a nice library over the last decade by starting with a basic base pkg and upgrading when the price and funds were right. That's how I got my Pillar set. It was in the very first Platinum base pkg.

There are a large number of standard reference works (like IVP 8 vol. Dictionary) that are highly recommended but are never in a base pkg. Most items wind up on sale if you are able to wait long enough.

This is a good time to buy Pillar while it is on sale. 

Posts 479
Liam & Abi Maguire | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 13 2017 10:46 AM

Hi all, 

Thanks for all the feedback. I think, despite the sale, I am going to go for the breadth of the TNT/OTC series over the depth of the PNT. At the moment, the only commentaries I have on the whole Bible are the single volume NBC and KBC and the EBC series. 

I'll pick up the Pillar commentary on John by Carson, which will be a good addition to the PNTCs on Colossians, James and 2 Corinthians that I already own. I think I'll look to buy the rest of the Pillar series next or maybe after Calvin's commentaries, or as part of the Gold base package... we'll see. 

Thanks for all the sage advice guys. Liam

Carpe verbum.

Posts 5270
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 13 2017 11:34 AM

Probably the wisest move, also in prepub there is a set of tyndall volumes that are upgrades you may want to look into Tyndale Commentaries Upgrade (9 vols.), also I just thought I would point out Acts in Pillar is a pretty great volume if you start a study in it.

-dan

Posts 6864
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 13 2017 4:37 PM

LMAM:

Hi all, 

Thanks for all the feedback. I think, despite the sale, I am going to go for the breadth of the TNT/OTC series over the depth of the PNT. At the moment, the only commentaries I have on the whole Bible are the single volume NBC and KBC and the EBC series. 

I'll pick up the Pillar commentary on John by Carson, which will be a good addition to the PNTCs on Colossians, James and 2 Corinthians that I already own. I think I'll look to buy the rest of the Pillar series next or maybe after Calvin's commentaries, or as part of the Gold base package... we'll see. 

Thanks for all the sage advice guys. Liam

I think is the best move having a set that covers the entire Bible. Pillar's goes on sale more often. You might consider a second software. Pillar is currently on sale for $99 in another software.

DAL

Posts 9127
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 13 2017 5:15 PM

LMAM:
Thanks for all the feedback. I think, despite the sale, I am going to go for the breadth of the TNT/OTC series over the depth of the PNT. At the moment, the only commentaries I have on the whole Bible are the single volume NBC and KBC and the EBC series.

I think this is a wise decision. When I was a laymen who taught and sometimes preached, I owned a few of the Tyndale series and wished that I could own them all. They were, for my needs, a good balance between adequate coverage of a passage and too much detail.

To cover the whole Bible with the budget you have, this is the best decision, in my opinion.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 265
Greg Corbin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 14 2017 8:58 AM

I have both Pillar and the Tyndale series on the whole Bible. They are both excellent. However, if I could only have one, I would choose Tyndale because it covers the entire Bible and offers great "bang for the buck."  Pillar is one of the better NT commentary sets but is more indepth and doesn't yet over the entire NT. 

Posts 13386
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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 14 2017 11:34 AM

Mark Smith:

LMAM:
Thanks for all the feedback. I think, despite the sale, I am going to go for the breadth of the TNT/OTC series over the depth of the PNT. At the moment, the only commentaries I have on the whole Bible are the single volume NBC and KBC and the EBC series.

I think this is a wise decision. When I was a laymen who taught and sometimes preached, I owned a few of the Tyndale series and wished that I could own them all. They were, for my needs, a good balance between adequate coverage of a passage and too much detail.

To cover the whole Bible with the budget you have, this is the best decision, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, I agree.

Posts 2835
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 14 2017 9:00 PM

Just my opinion, not to be taken as Gospel.  

If you do not have either, then I suggest you first purchase the Tyndale set.  It will give you a very good intermediate level commentary on the entire Bible.  In fact, on the bestcommentaries.com rankings, a number of the Tyndale volumes are considered the best commentary available on a number of books of the Bible.  All the Tyndale volumes are good, and some are just excellent.  

Unless you have studied Greek seriously, I am sure Tyndale will be more valuable to you than the more academic sets.  It is a great set for a pastor.

And Tyndale covers both Old and New Testament.  It is also one of the best values for the price available.

Pillar is a great set, and I use it often.  Both are worthwhile purchases, but of the two, I would buy Tyndale first.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 15 2017 4:33 AM

LMAM:
Wisdom welcomed and sought.

Remember to look at base packages as well. You may, for example, find that you can pick up a set less expensively that route (perhaps depending upon what you already own).

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 479
Liam & Abi Maguire | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 15 2017 11:59 AM

Thanks so much for all the helpful advice and all the encouragements. In the end I decided to get Tyndale  + PNT on John by Carson, and I am very happy with my purchases.

I've also decided to use the Tyndale set as the basis of a custom commentary series and subbing out titles for better commentaries that I already own (E.g.  NICNT on Romans by Moo, Ralph Davis on Judges, etc.). I feel much more confident about picking up the odd in-depth commentary here and there in the future, knowing that I have in the Tyndale series, a great foundation to build on.

Thanks again, everyone. Liam

Carpe verbum.

Posts 646
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 20 2017 9:48 AM

It depends on the individual commentary, by book of the Bible.  I recommend comparing the two sets at www.bestcommentaries.com

-Michael

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