Best way to experience Logos on the Go? (offline)

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Posts 250
Theo | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jul 28 2017 2:52 AM

I am new to all of this, so I am sure there are a series of threads buried below with all the proper discussions and guidance. Please feel free to connect me freely with all the links if that makes this easier.

I am curious, what is the best experience of Logos with full features on the go in offline situations?

I would assume since the Android experience is quite limited, there would be no mention of it in this particular regard; so that leaves it as basically an Apple vs. Windows thing unless someone knows something I currently do not, thus the reason for the post.

Which experience is best with a rather large library over 4,000 volumes?

So there are 4 possibilities as I can see it as of now:

1) Apple laptop

2) Apple iPad

3) Windows laptop

4) Surface Pro or another tablet running full Windows 10 and not the new 10s (not fully supported.) (If so, which would be better than the Surface line up?) 

Is the Surface line up even an option (over just a tablet with no keyboard) or does one need to go to a full laptop like a Dell XPS or the newer Dell XPS 2n1? Same with Apple, can the iPad handle a full Logos experience?

Does shrinking the screen lessen the experience considerably or can a larger tablet shave off the weight but if has the proper specs able to handle all of Logos? Is it even worth carrying or buying a tablet/Surface Pro vs. just carrying a laptop and being done with it. What size is a good compromise as long as the specs can handle the requirements?

Can the iPhone stack up at all, or is it also limited as the Android app and missing the reverse interlinear, etc.? It would also have a smaller screen experience than the tablets as well and quite possibly less hardware to handle the demands. Conceivably, it would have less specs as well.

I do not care about the whole Apple vs PC debates. I am strictly talking about the best full Logos experience offline.

Hardware considerations are extremely helpful as weight, battery life, processing power, and the like along with something that is hardy and not prone to break so easily all would be a part of my interests. Even screen experience and whether the screen's size or fragility or even touch experience matters, but a keyboard to me seems an obvious need or how else does one type so much on a tablet.

Basically I am looking for the ultimate replacement to carrying a Bible for making presentations or preparing for them anywhere. Just grab it and go and not worry while being a convenient to tote around as possible.

Linking it wirelessly to a projector is nice.

Just using it instead of a physical Bible whether listening to a sermon, giving one, or using Logos for all of its many reasons in preparing and studying, etc.  

I need to go and know I have all of Logos with me on the run without as many limitations as possible on a regular basis--not once a week to church--but all day everyday.

Posts 44
Mikael S | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 28 2017 3:08 AM

Yes a small monitor will not be a good experience if You need to use Verbum AND for example chat or checking Faithlife store pages simultaneously.

Optimal useful but not too large size in my mind is 13"-14", 1440 x 900 pixels, that is a lot more productive than the amount of pixels I have a lot of experience with: 1366 x 768. 768 pixels vertically makes for a lot more scrolling and severely limits the amount of continous text in front of the eyes.
I would go with a Windows laptop with AMD CPU.
If You have the money for it right now and want a high end rig, additionally go for DDR4 type RAM, about 12 GB:

Ken Rutherford:
Does shrinking the screen lessen the experience considerably or can a larger tablet shave off the weight but if has the proper specs able to handle all of Logos? Is it even worth carrying or buying a tablet/Surface Pro vs. just carrying a laptop and being done with it. What size is a good compromise as long as the specs can handle the requirements?


Would try to get durability, different devices have a different level of quality of electronic components and physical durability, for example hinges, most lack a magnesium frame - that lack is usually a bad thing combined with a laptop that is very thin - the latter detail makes it spatially difficult to fit enough robustness (and cooling column, but cooling may not be a major problem if You set the maximum CPU clock speed rate to very low and use an extra fan beneath the computer when You are plugged in in the office).
Battery life can be enhanced easily if You have a CPU with good performance: Go to settings (under the battery icon) and set maximum CPU clock rate to quite low: 10% - or more % if it's not a very fast CPU, You can try out a few settings and find a good compromise:

Ken Rutherford:
Hardware considerations are extremely helpful as weight, battery life, processing power, and the like along with something that is hardy and not prone to break so easily all would be a part of my interests. Even screen experience and whether the screen's size or fragility or even touch experience matters, but a keyboard to me seems an obvious need or how else does one type so much on a tablet.

translatio-princpld...
10 Bibls.. Supporting the cause of the right for data

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 28 2017 3:44 AM

Ken Rutherford:

So there are 4 possibilities as I can see it as of now:

1) Apple laptop

2) Apple iPad

3) Windows laptop

4) Surface Pro or another tablet running full Windows 10 and not the new 10s (not fully supported.) (If so, which would be better than the Surface line up?) 

In terms of equivalent functionality - your options 1, 3 & 4 all run the same Logos (full-function) application and so provide access to all your resources (both online and offline) and features (although some require an online connection to work). So for these you would need to think about performance, screen size etc.

Option 2 runs the mobile app which is similar in functionality to the Android app. There are some minor differences but essentially the same so gives a significantly reduced capability when compared with the desktop / laptop environment.

Ken Rutherford:
Is the Surface line up even an option (over just a tablet with no keyboard) or does one need to go to a full laptop like a Dell XPS or the newer Dell XPS 2n1?

Some people who post on the forums use the Surface Pro and speak about it providing a very good experience,.Others report similar good experience using the Macbook Air.

Ken Rutherford:
Same with Apple, can the iPad handle a full Logos experience?

As above - no it runs the mobile app in a similar way to the Android platform. The same is true for the iPhone.

I don't do much Logos work when travelling so can't really comment on screen size. I know there are some people who are happy with 14/15" when on the move and who then connect up to a larger monitor when back in the office / at home.

Ken Rutherford:
I need to go and know I have all of Logos with me on the run without as many limitations as possible on a regular basis--not once a week to church--but all day everyday.

In which case you need a portable laptop style device - standard laptop or MacBook Air / Surface Pro. 

I'm not current enough with the products available to recommend a particular model. Hopefully others will be able to.

Posts 250
Theo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 28 2017 5:24 AM

Thanks for all the wonderful feedback! My only decision now would be a laptop vs. the Surface Pro/Mac Air if those latter 2 are even equivalent. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 28 2017 7:51 AM

Ken Rutherford:
My only decision now would be a laptop vs. the Surface Pro/Mac Air if those latter 2 are even equivalent. 

I don't quite understand your question... but I'll give it a try. Smile

For the purposes of Logos, a surface pro = laptop. A Mac Air IS a laptop. They both would run the desktop (full) version of Logos. Here are some considerations: 

  • The size & kind of drive is VERY important. You want the largest, fastest drive possible. In my opinion, a 128 GB SSD drive should be considered a minimum... and really only if you are using the computer for Logos & MSFT Office. A 128 GB device would not be sufficient if you had music, photos, videos, etc. on it at the same time. Your drive needs "room to breathe" (free space). Although this is less true with SSD's than traditional drives, it is still true. 
  • The choice of operating systems is personal choice. There is functional parity between the two platforms for the purposes of Logos. Faithlife does a good job of creating an equal amount of bugs unique to each platform. Stick out tongue
  • Related to the Surface Pro: Logos is not optimized for touch screen, so you will have to live with it. Some users seem to love it... there is also a consistent group pushing for further optimization. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 5251
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 28 2017 9:48 AM

One thing to add the surface is a good machine from all i hear, but Logos is not touch friendly at all....it is difficult to use Logos via the touch screen i have heard. that said it may still be an ideal machine for you but i have heard to many people claim for them its not a good experience to give the surface a strong recommendation. 

-dan

Posts 1859
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 28 2017 12:02 PM

Ken Rutherford:
4) Surface Pro or another tablet running full Windows 10 and not the new 10s (not fully supported.) (If so, which would be better than the Surface line up?) 

I've used a Surface Pro with Logos since Feb 2013 without a single problem. I currently use the SP4.

The Type Pad works perfectly with the features of logos that are not touch friendly. I have a http://www.bestbuy.com/site/microsoft-arc-touch-surface-edition-mouse-dark-titanium/2265102.p?skuId=2265102  that I keep in my bag for processes where I will be doing a lot of right-click. It folds flat when not in use and arches up when in use and connects via Bluetooth so the USB port is available for a thumbdrive or other USB device.

For wireless projection I carry the https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-us/products/adapters/wireless-display-adapter-2/p3q-00001 in my bag. I have also found that newer LG TV's support WiDi so I don't even need to connect the adapter above when using the TV mounted in the Sunday School room where I teach weekly.

Other Forum users weight in here:

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/118097.aspx

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/84891.aspx - SP3

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/84067.aspx - SP2

http://community.logos.com/forums/t/72150.aspx SP first Gen

Prior to the Surface Pro I carried a Dell laptop and an iPad. This gives me the best of both. I've used it to participate in small groups, teach classes, preach from a pulpit, and officiate a wedding (no lecturn). It pairs great using my iPhone as a mobile hotspot when I am trying to study in places with no public wifi. 

- Footprint (the "mobile edge" is a credit card size laser pointer and wireless controller for advancing PowerPoint (connects via USB dongle)

- Profile (can carry in a THIN bag)

When I'm home the Dock is one quick connection which will power the Surface plus connect 2 (I only use one) external monitor, speakers and 4 usb ports (for external HD). http://www.pcworld.com/article/2989741/tablet-pc/microsofts-new-surface-dock-is-a-smaller-yet-still-potent-docking-solution.html   

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 1077
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 28 2017 12:03 PM

Ok, well here is my two cents. 

I had always been a windows person until 2015 when I changed over two Apple. 

I have a 2015 MacBook Pro Retina max screen settings display  2880 x 1800 but I have the max set as 2048 x 1280 most of the time.. I am a little older so my eyes are not what they were before.

My system uses 16GB ram and a 256 GB SSD, but I also moved my iTunes to a 128GB USB flash drive so that I only have the Apple office App & Logos installed to the SSD so with my Library of 5,430 resources I have 175 GB of free space. 

My Logos directory is a little over 42GB in size.

The SSD has an access speed of 1,200 Mbps write & 1,800 Mbps read. A full index takes about 90 minutes most times.

The battery runs 9 - 10 hours most times and every time I go out of the house, I have the MacBook Pro in my backpack.

I would not go back to a windows computer, I am on the macOS Sierra 10.12.6 with no problems running Logos. 

I like the nice thing of all updates being free on Mac, I was so tired of microsoft update and pay $$$ 

Also i do use a second monitor at home with Logos. 

L4 Bible Study, L5 Reformed Bronze, & L5 Gold, L6 Platinum & Reformed Platinum, L7 Platinum, L8 Baptist Platinum.
2015 rMBP 15" 2.2GHz 16GB 256GB SSD, running macOS Mojave   iPad Mini 4,   iPhone 6.

Posts 6492
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 28 2017 3:48 PM

For full features on the go a laptop is the best option, whichever one you prefer (Apple or Windows). A surface Pro would seem too small for my taste. Besides, a large library would require something more suitable IMO.

DAL

Posts 611
Dave Thawley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 29 2017 12:18 PM

I use a laptop for the reasons people have said above. I use a kindle fire hd to access the android app for reading. This is a cheap device but works fine. To use logos desktop version I use a laptop with a solid state drive. The solid state drive makes a real difference on speed

Posts 2289
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 29 2017 6:43 PM

I'm writing this from a four year old HP 13 inch Folio laptop with a 128GB SSD, 4GB of RAM, an i3 processor and Windows 10. I've got a whole lot more resources, and it runs Logos just fine. As Logos continues to improve, I don't think you need much more. I'd double up on the drive space and the RAM, but you can pick a Win 10 or Apple laptop and be completely satisfied with it for all your mobile needs.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 30 2017 12:40 AM

Hi Ken

I am inducted into the Apple Eco System and find it really convenient to work fairly seamlessly between desktop (iMac), laptop (macBook Air),  tablet (iPad) and phone (iPhone) each have their place in my workflow.

It also allow a little fun because with the Stable version of MacOS and Logos on the Laptop I can afford to play with Beta versions on the desktop.

Apple is an Eco System and that needs to be born in mind if Technical Support is a consideration. Over 80% of Apple users are using the latest version of the macOS and iOS. Only a minority of users are using the latest version of Windows and only a tiny proportion using the latest version of Android. This is important because when you ask for support on Apple stuff those giving advice can expect that you are running the same software as you are which makes giving advice a lot more simple.

But the real reason that I am replying is because research shows that one of the most important factors that affects people actually porting portable stuff is weight - even a small difference in weight can affect the decision about putting it in your bag or leaving it at home. If you buy a portable you need to be confident that you won't (subconsciously) regret the weight.

Posts 250
Theo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 30 2017 1:11 AM

Thank you all! Very helpful feedback!

Posts 5
NRHJohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 25 2017 10:12 AM

As a member of both the Apple and Microsoft communities I can say there is sadly no Awesome experience if you are on the "go" as the full Logos 7 experience is not well supported in a touch environment.  I may get some push back from others, but I have a surface Pro and it runs Logos great as long as I am using a mouse or trackpad.  Fold the keyboard behind and try and use the surface touch interface and you will effectively be selecting everything you touch.  I have a 4 year old Macbook Pro and both it and the surface run the app wonderfully as a desktop app.  My iPad runs a lesser online needed version well, but it does so adequately.  in my words I can take my library with me, it is not as intelligent, but the resources are available.

So if you already have Logos and are invested in the ecosystem I think you would be satisfied with either of the desktop solutions, the Apple devices I have typically have longer battery lives though my newer Surface is small light and has better battery life than before. I can usually use it around 6-7 hours, more if I adjust things less if I don't. There are some very good HP and Dell offerings that are both lightweight and less expensive than the Microsoft products, I went the MS route because I wanted the best hardware support for the OS I could get and I had a need for pen input for forms.  My rare use case may or may not fit your need but I would suggest not expecting the touch aspect of the device to be all that useful on the Windows side of the camp, though it doesn't exist on the mac side so it is kind of a wash.

If like me you would like to have a more touch friendly experience on the windows side please chime in here and where ever you have opportunity as I don't think Logos thinks there is much demand.

Posts 1859
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 25 2017 10:33 AM

NRHJohn:
If like me you would like to have a more touch friendly experience on the windows side please chime in here and where ever you have opportunity as I don't think Logos thinks there is much demand.

It has been requested since April 2010 in the PC world - https://community.logos.com/forums/t/14742.aspx

and even earlier for the ipod touch.https://community.logos.com/forums/t/4416.aspx

Best way to be heard by Faithlife is to cast 3 votes herehttps://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-6/suggestions/619605-focus-on-tablet-and-touchscreen-features 

 

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 10238
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 25 2017 10:45 AM

David Thomas:

NRHJohn:
If like me you would like to have a more touch friendly experience on the windows side please chime in here and where ever you have opportunity as I don't think Logos thinks there is much demand.

It has been requested since April 2010 in the PC world - https://community.logos.com/forums/t/14742.aspx

and even earlier for the ipod touch.https://community.logos.com/forums/t/4416.aspx

 

Logos (must) have don't-bother policies in these areas:

- Touch-screen. Gestures you can't remember demonstrate no one uses touch in Logos.

- Manuals. Help files that look like manuals are ok.

- Maps. Your typical $9.99 Bible at Walmart is easier to use.

- Communication. Even bug reports are carefully disorganized.

- Image quality and zooming. Enough said.


Posts 314
Jeremiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 2 2017 10:07 PM

Denise:

David Thomas:

NRHJohn:
If like me you would like to have a more touch friendly experience on the windows side please chime in here and where ever you have opportunity as I don't think Logos thinks there is much demand.

It has been requested since April 2010 in the PC world - https://community.logos.com/forums/t/14742.aspx

and even earlier for the ipod touch.https://community.logos.com/forums/t/4416.aspx

 

Logos (must) have don't-bother policies in these areas:

- Touch-screen. Gestures you can't remember demonstrate no one uses touch in Logos.

- Manuals. Help files that look like manuals are ok.

- Maps. Your typical $9.99 Bible at Walmart is easier to use.

- Communication. Even bug reports are carefully disorganized.

- Image quality and zooming. Enough said.

Hey I just got a 2-in-1 Windoze tablet with stylus (for my bday +Hanukah advance) with the express purpose of replacing my ipad for Logos usage. 

You mentioned gestures not being so supported, I'm having trouble with basic usage in tab mode (the whole purpose of having a 2-in1); I travel a lot by 3rd world bus and having a computer in normal laptop mode doesn't work so well with limited leg room... hence the tab desire.

Since I can't use most logos features in ipad without internet, this was my solution (to get a 2-in-1). Am I missing something because I can't get Logos to work even on normal stylus / tab things in windows 10.

If I click the command box the keyboard won't come up to enter text, many of the other logos windows when I click in there to search or make an entry, the program doesn't seem to understand it's a text entry field so the virtual keyboards don't appear. Now I had a tablet PC first back like 8 years ago or so; so I'm assuming/hoping this is just me not setting stuff up properly.

The simplest thing that I must be doing something wrong is, in tablet mode I touch "guides" then the "Guides" menu shows up but when I touch "exegetical guide" it won't select. I can not select unless I fold my 2-in-1 back to lap top mode to select. The stylus also won't select :(

Any tips from anyone on how to make Logos function properly in windoze tablet mode would be greatly appreciated (just normal, proper tablet functioning like all my other programs do is fine for now, no fancy gestures ... though I will cast votes for that too). These machines (windows tablet/ 2 in 1)  are quite popular now so I'm hoping it's just me not configuring something right.

I'm so glad my wife didn't just give me her windows 10 tab (we were considering that) as it has no keyboard!

Thanks for your help in advance so I can make Logos function correctly in windows 10! 

Dead languages are my mid-life crisis

Posts 314
Jeremiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 2 2017 10:14 PM

David Thomas:

Ken Rutherford:
4) Surface Pro or another tablet running full Windows 10 and not the new 10s (not fully supported.) (If so, which would be better than the Surface line up?) 

I've used a Surface Pro with Logos since Feb 2013 without a single problem. I currently use the SP4.

Hey David, so your Surface Pro worked "without a single problem" with Logos.

I know Surface Pro's entire market is to be a windows tablet. Does this mean Logos works perfectly in tablet mode on that device or was Logos

problematic in it's native tablet mode?

I'm wondering if my Yoga is just not configured properly somehow. Not looking for fancy gestures just basic tablet usage under windows 10 (i.e virtual keyboard automatically comes up when I want to enter text, etc. like all my other programs do).

Thanks!

Dead languages are my mid-life crisis

Posts 314
Jeremiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 2 2017 10:15 PM

David Thomas:

NRHJohn:
If like me you would like to have a more touch friendly experience on the windows side please chime in here and where ever you have opportunity as I don't think Logos thinks there is much demand.

It has been requested since April 2010 in the PC world - https://community.logos.com/forums/t/14742.aspx

and even earlier for the ipod touch.https://community.logos.com/forums/t/4416.aspx

Best way to be heard by Faithlife is to cast 3 votes herehttps://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-6/suggestions/619605-focus-on-tablet-and-touchscreen-features 

Good advice, done and done!

casted 3 votes, thanks for the tip.

Dead languages are my mid-life crisis

Posts 314
Jeremiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 2 2017 10:20 PM

Weird, I just discovered that if I search the forums on this keywoard: touchscreen

I get this error message: 

Sorry, there was a problem with your last request!

Either the site is offline or an unhandled error occurred. We apologize and have logged the error. Please try your request again or if you know who your site administrator is let them know too.

I can, however, search on any other keywords without the search bombing. Isn't that strange?

Dead languages are my mid-life crisis

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