How to stop fuzzy search finding Apocryphal books?

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This post has 16 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 617
Stephen Steele | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Sep 18 2017 5:17 AM

I'm really enjoying the fuzzy search - I can finally search for Biblical quotations in Logos rather than google!

I understand some people will want to have results from the Apocrypha / Deuterocanonical books. But how can I limit a search to just the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament?

In the 'search range' the 'Entire Bible' range is 'Genesis - 4 Macc'. I thought that changing this to 'Old and New Testament (Gen-Rev)' would limit this to the 'Protestant canon' (for want of a better term), but I'm still getting results from Sirach (eg when I search 'camel needle').

I would suggest that at least one of the 'Common Divisions' be changed to include the Protestant Bible, and in the meantime, is there a workaround so I can set a custom range to just get the protocanonical / Hebrew OT and the NT?

Posts 3674
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 18 2017 7:56 AM

I am not entirely sure of where you encounter the problem (and so what to suggest as solution). You mention searching for biblical quotations (which suggests a Basic search) but then speak of ranges (which suggests a Bible search). 

Can you give an example of the search you conducted that produced the undesirable results? 

Posts 617
Stephen Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 18 2017 9:43 AM

Yep, Bible search.

Posts 1572
Forum MVP
Levi Durfey | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 18 2017 10:12 AM

In my experimenting with this, I discovered that the "search range" has no effect on Fuzzy Search. I narrowed it to one verse "Matthew 1:1," and it still gave me the same results as when the "Entire Bible" is selected.

Posts 1341
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 18 2017 10:18 AM

That seems like a bug.

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Forum MVP
Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 18 2017 10:21 AM

Hmm, confirmed... looks like Fuzzy Bible Search doesn't respect the Reference Range selected (e.g. Genesis-Exodus) or the canon of the Bible you are searching in (e.g. Lexham Hebrew Bible), or the canon of your highest prioritized Bible, and just always gives the broader canon in the text of your highest prioritized Bible(s). 

I would think ideally it should respect the reference range selected, and if you are searching All Passages within a single Bible, should return results from that translation, using that canon. So, if I search within the ESV I would get the Protestant Canon, within the RSVCE the Catholic canon, within the Tanakh the Jewish canon, etc. That would imitate the behaviour of a normal Bible search. 

Posts 3674
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 18 2017 10:44 AM

I think that it is understood to be part of what is "fuzzy" about the search. In other words, you are searching for something but are unsure about it, so it gives you broader results. 

But I agree that this should pertain to the search terms only, not to parameters.

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LogosEmployee
Andrew Batishko (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 18 2017 11:05 AM

As you have determined, Fuzzy Bible Search doesn't currently support filtering by the current range. I have created a case to address this lack.

Posts 3674
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 18 2017 10:02 PM

Yes

Posts 6
Pr Edi Giudetti | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 22 2018 10:16 PM

Hi Andrew, are you aware if this issue has been resolved or responded to?

Like the other gentleman, I am happy for the 'Fuzzy search' to limit itself to the entire Bible if need be, but quite frustrating seeing it extend to sources outside scripture. 

Thanks for creating the case. 

Posts 2081
LogosEmployee

Unfortunately, I have no information about when or if this issue will be addressed.

Posts 18668
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 3 2019 2:38 PM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

Unfortunately, I have no information about when or if this issue will be addressed.

It's been raised again as an issue. Some people don't want to be see Apocryphal books in their fuzzy search. They want to be able to limit the fuzzy search to the 66 Protestant canonical books. It seems to me this is a pretty important thing to be able to do, so that users don't feel there is a subtle bias of Logos trying to steer them to consider those books as equally canonical.

I personally have no problem with them showing up in my fuzzy search, but would like to advocate for those who want that to be a setting in the program.

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Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 4 2019 11:46 PM

Rosie Perera:
Some people don't want to be see Apocryphal books in their fuzzy search.

The main issue is that it doesn't respect the passage range on the Bible Search, because it is a section within Bible Search! Which conflicts with the fact that it is also part of Basic Search > Everything, so that everything is fuzzy (no Bible options).

My preference is to place Fuzzy in its own Search tab, where it can have its own options. This would avoid issues like implicitly ignoring Bible Search options; having to collapse Fuzzy to avoid getting results; or collapsing other sections to concentrate on the Fuzzy search.

Limiting Fuzzy to any canon then becomes a side issue, because that can be managed by specifying one of the bibles the user has; a passage/reference range would only complicate matters. Results could also be returned in that bible rather than one's preferred bible.

Another issue is that results depend on spelling  e.g. judgment vs judgement. Fuzzy should be able to get around that.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 18668
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 4 2019 11:53 PM

Dave Hooton:
Another issue is that results depend on spelling  e.g. judgment vs judgement. We should be able to get around that.

Hear hear! Google Search deals with that.

Posts 1095
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 16 2019 5:17 AM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

Unfortunately, I have no information about when or if this issue will be addressed.

Could FL comment on when a fix for this bug might get some traction? Would you explain why this is so far down on the priorities list? Is it because it was designed the way it is at present, and isn't actually a bug, thus we are asking for an enhancement and not a bug fix? Just curious because, if it were a bug, one would think it would have been at least acknowledged as being on the list to get resolved. It doesn't appear at present that it's even on list.

Thanks in advance for an update.

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College
Mac OS 10.13.6 High Sierra, Mid 2015 iMac, 2.5GHz i7, 32 gbRAM, 1tbSSD

Posts 1564
John Kight | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 16 2019 6:05 AM

I was able to determine the boundaries of the Fuzzy Search on the mobile app this morning. It's not the desk top. But, I was able to create a search boundary for Jeremiah and it worked.  

For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com 

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Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 16 2019 6:11 AM

John Kight:

I was able to determine the boundaries of the Fuzzy Search on the mobile app this morning. It's not the desk top. But, I was able to create a search boundary for Jeremiah and it worked.  

Fascinating - and I can reproduce this.

It's strange as the Fuzzy Search is carried out on Faithlife servers so I didn't expect it to be affected by which client platform was used.

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