Logos 8 Wishlist

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This post has 341 Replies | 23 Followers

Posts 4
Mm______Mm | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 16 2018 6:04 AM

Searching in Logos sucks!!!!!  So much easier to do a Google Search and then come back to Logos, why can't your simply make a search intelligent???

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 16 2018 7:46 AM

Mm______Mm:
So much easier to do a Google Search and then come back to Logos, why can't your simply make a search intelligent???

I agree that sometimes it is simpler to use Google... but there is a reason why google is google and no one else is. 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 16 2018 8:50 AM

Mm______Mm:
So much easier to do a Google Search and then come back to Logos, why can't your simply make a search intelligent???

Please provide search examples; would like to try replicating Google searches in Logos. Annoying searches would be appreciated (to show what intelligent search is desired).

Caveat: Logos search can be better targeted than Google. Thankful for Logos search assistant that offers many suggestions (albeit can dream of customization since lack desire for all suggestions: e.g. for Word search, usually lack interest in more words while lemmas and roots are often interesting).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 70
Donnie Vick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 5:20 AM

You can do this by having a personal book named for the section and then placing it between the two sections of books.

Posts 70
Donnie Vick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 5:25 AM

I would very much like the sermon editor greatly improved. There is hardly any formatting that can be done in it. It basically serves as a way to only create title slides. Because of this, I never use it. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 5:50 AM

Donnie Vick:
You can do this by having a personal book named for the section and then placing it between the two sections of books.

That is a good stopgap measure, but it should be built in already. On a side note: Make sure to quote who you are responding to! Better, quote the specific part of the post you are addressing. For example: 

Donnie Vick:
You can do this

Simply select the portion of the post when using the full editor (not a "quick post") and hit the "quote" button. 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 6:03 AM

Donnie Vick:
I would very much like the sermon editor greatly improved. There is hardly any formatting that can be done in it. It basically serves as a way to only create title slides. Because of this, I never use it. 

Just checking if you are aware of the speaker styles capability

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 6:26 AM

Myke Harbuck:

Please permit Preferred Resource Sections, so one can easily tell what resources they have "preferred" for each section, and can also tell when they have no resources preferred for a particular resource type (IE: Dictionaries).  

Perhaps each section can be outlined (like below), with a flyover label of the preferred resource section when hovering over it. 

Or perhaps there can just be a bold section heading for each resource type, and users can just drag resources to the right section, like so:

PREFERRED BIBLES

Esv

KJV

COMMENTARIES

NIV Application Commentary

Courson's Applicaiton

DICTIONARIES

Strongs

Vines

CALENDAR DEVOTIONS

"None Assigned; Drag resources here to add them to this sections" (or the sections could just be blank)

Donnie Vick:

You can do this by having a personal book named for the section and then placing it between the two sections of books.

Concur Personal Books can provide resource section markers. Logos wiki => >Prioritizing Books includes link to thread => Tip: how to add headings in your Priority list (posted by Steve Clark on 4 Sep 2012)

Caveat: resources can have a variety of indexed data types. For example, the New Living Translation Bible has Bible Verse Finder with English Headwords:

Dictionaries also have English headword indexing. The effect of prioritizing NLT in Bible section (above Dictionaries) appears when search for English definition of Accountability, which opens NLT Bible Verse Finder (instead of highest prioritized Dictionary). Thankful for advanced prioritization that allows NLT prioritization of Bible indexing with Bibles while English Headword Indexing is prioritized lower.

Another Bible opportunity is cross references in a Bible that shows in highest prioritized Bible. Personally have many advanced Bible prioritizations so a cross reference in NKJV shows NKJV verse(s).

Can dream about prioritization groupings by Resource Type with Data Type filtering: e.g. Bible section for Bible indexing; Commentary section for Bible indexing; Lexicons with Greek Headword indexing; Lexicons with Hebrew Headword indexing; Lexicons with Strong's Number indexing. By way of example, DBL Greek lexicon has five datatype indexes.

If a resource does not have data type for that filtered section, dragging should cause cursor change to 🚫that shows lack of data type. Considering number of indexed data types, would be OK with a section for all other datatypes (similar to current prioritization). 

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 70
Donnie Vick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 6:38 AM

Graham Criddle:

Donnie Vick:
I would very much like the sermon editor greatly improved. There is hardly any formatting that can be done in it. It basically serves as a way to only create title slides. Because of this, I never use it. 

Just checking if you are aware of the speaker styles capability

Yes I am aware of this, but this content that is marked for the speaker does not show up on the slide. Correct? For me to be able to use the sermon editor, I need to be able to have a list of bullets. The backgrounds are also clunky in my mind and a bit difficult to work with, but that just be because the overall program is slow.

Also, I often use the notes feature for my sermons to make outlines. I wish the outlining was more robust with roman numerals, capital letters, etc.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 7:15 AM

Donnie Vick:
Yes I am aware of this, but this content that is marked for the speaker does not show up on the slide. Correct?

Correct - it is more as guides / hints for the speaker

Donnie Vick:
For me to be able to use the sermon editor, I need to be able to have a list of bullets

This you can do

Selecting a bulleted list and clicking the "add slides from selected text" button

results in a slide like this

Donnie Vick:
Also, I often use the notes feature for my sermons to make outlines. I wish the outlining was more robust with roman numerals, capital letters, etc.

Understood

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 8:51 AM

Mm______Mm:
So much easier to do a Google Search and then come back to Logos, why can't your simply make a search intelligent???

Our basic search reflects a different era, when searches were precise and searchers (often) knew boolean logic... Google has taught us all to just 'ask the Internet', and we need to adapt, while keeping our specialized capabilities for the scenarios where they make sense. (Google can't find cultural concepts or words by morphology...)

One of the biggest changes is how Google / the web have caused people to become more tolerant of false-positives, used to never looking at/working with all the results, and okay with results that don't contain any of the terms but are still 'correct'. (Of course these are things that often make Google a terrible solution for scholarly work, like, say, writing a grammar... where you want to find exactly the thing you searched for, and nothing else.)

I'd love to hear some specific suggestions on what queries you like at Google / don't like in Logos, and how you'd like us to change things.

Posts 53
C.J. Scott | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 9:13 AM

Bob Pritchett:
I'd love to hear some specific suggestions on what queries you like at Google / don't like in Logos, and how you'd like us to change things.

Hi Bob,

I think it would be good to have an additional  "Quick Search" feature that could mimic Google-style results, maybe a development of the Fuzzy search where result come up with the caveat that a different search algorithm has been used so expect false positives after the first few results.

If Natual Linguistic Programming is included (basic AI) the "Quick Seach" would get used to the way we search and even our typos.

Another path may be to use some sort of API to quickly search on the internet via Logos if that's what people want, but I really think we want to search our libraries so the former would be preferable.

Clint Scott   Author | Humble Majesty   www.humblemajesty.com
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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 10:29 AM

Bob Pritchett:
(Of course these are things that often make Google a terrible solution for scholarly work, like, say, writing a grammar... where you want to find exactly the thing you searched for, and nothing else.)

Most of the time I use Google I'm either delighted because it's corrected my lousy spelling (yay for artificial intelligence), or cursing that I have to manually but it in Verbatim mode because  it thinks it knows what I want (boo to artificial intelligence).

The lesson is that AI is incredibly hard, and I personally don't want Logos trying to do that. (If Apple can't pull it off with Siri, Faithlife won't be able to.) What I think we need for search to be improved is simple to explain, if harder to implement:

  1. A much improved ranking algorithm. The current one (number of hits/article length) is much too basic.
  2. Spelling correction suggestions.
  3. A visual indicator when Logos can't understand our keywords.
  4. Proximity keywords to span verse/article boundaries.
  5. Optionally, automatic synonym/alternative spellings search.
Posts 39
Andrew Biddinger | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 4:49 PM

Yes Agreed, Mark! The only thing I would add to your list is: 

6. A cleaner UI results page, both esthetically (more google like) and in what shows up in the results. Especially in an "all resource" search, often the "headings" and "descriptions" of the results page don't give me enough information to know what that result is talking about.

Posts 9021
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 5:48 PM

C.J. Scott:

I think it would be good to have an additional  "Quick Search" feature that could mimic Google-style results, maybe a development of the Fuzzy search where result come up with the caveat that a different search algorithm has been used so expect false positives after the first few results.

Ah yes ... I'm hearing that famous jingle .... Libby, Libby, Libby on the Label, Label, Label.


Posts 2195
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 6:22 PM

Mark Barnes:
Proximity keywords to span verse/article boundaries.

Yes, please. The fact that people expect that, and need to periodically ask why results aren't returning certain verses is a problem.

Forcing people to know/remember search nuances, or adapt to the program's behavior instead of searching how we naturally expect (e.g., Bible instead of Basic), is just unintuitive.

Posts 158
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 17 2018 11:07 PM

Mark Barnes:
Proximity keywords to span verse/article boundaries.

Agreed - this is really important.

YesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYesYes

Posts 110
Andrew116 | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2018 12:53 AM

Yes. This. (searches that cross verse and chapter boundaries). If logos is looking for substantive program improvements rather than bloat, this is a Good one  

Morris proctor posted a blog recently showing how to search for NEAR things within chapters not just verses. it was, as always, an e blog. But also kind of a failure of the program that the blog post was necessary. 

in some cases it is now accepted that the chapter division comes in the “wrong place” so being able to do searches like NEAR regardless of chapter divisions would be great. for academic research you could almost say it’s crucial. 

Posts 855
Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2018 6:38 PM

Andrew116:
Yes. This. (searches that cross verse and chapter boundaries). If logos is looking for substantive program improvements rather than bloat, this is a Good one  

Absolutely. For most searches, the boundary that counts is the sentence or the clause. In this sense, Logos has not yet caught up to competition, such as Accordance and Bible Works. This is one reason I still use the old Windows 3.1 version of Gramcord for many searches.

Posts 855
Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 18 2018 6:57 PM

Bob Pritchett:
One of the biggest changes is how Google / the web have caused people to become more tolerant of false-positives, used to never looking at/working with all the results, and okay with results that don't contain any of the terms but are still 'correct

I hope Logos will never lose its search precision in an effort to make Google-like searches. I constantly get frustrated by Google when it presents results that I have no interest in and don't even have all of my search terms. It should be possible to choose whether you want a fuzzy search or a precise search.

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