Search / Resource Issue - roman citizenship pride philippians [Philippians 3:20]

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Posts 36
Ben Vargh | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Apr 4 2010 4:16 PM

Since I was already bit aware of the context of  Philippians 3:20, I searched both Logos 4 for and google for:  roman citizenship pride philippians.

Google returned the below and I got what I was looking for.

“Wherever they were, these colonies were little fragments of Rome and their pride in their Roman citizenship was their dominating characteristic. The Roman language was spoken; Roman dress was worn; Roman customs were observed; their magistrates had Roman titles, and carried out the same ceremonies as were carried out in Rome itself. They were stubbornly and unalterably Roman and would never have dreamt of becoming assimilated to the people amidst whom they were set” (Barclay, 1959, p.4). http://ryanwattersphotography.com/page10/page28/page28.html

I ran the same search in Logos 4 platinum. Baker Exegetical Commentary is the only resource I could find a mention to the Roman Pride. I do not own Barclay in my Logos Platinum. I do not think this is a search issue, but lack of the right resource issue. I do not own Barclay and it is not available any more - we all know it is good. Any comparable alternatives please which has the same degree of clarity for the historical context?

I would like Logos to be self-sufficient for Bible study!

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 4 2010 4:30 PM

When I restricted the query to:-

roman NEAR citizenship NEAR pride NEAR philippians

the results came only from Holman Bible Handbook and Holman Concise Bible Commentary.

If you want Roman Pride (roman NEAR pride) the results come from resources like

NAC, Pulpit Commentary, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Tyndale Bible Dictionary.

 

Dave
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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 4 2010 4:57 PM

Ben Vargh:
Since I was already bit aware of the context of  Philippians 3:20, I searched both Logos 4 for and google for:  roman citizenship pride philippians.

Why limit the search to Philippians? I used "Roman NEAR citizenship NEAR pride" and found 10 articles in my Platinum collection (I also have Barclay and Theological Journals Volume 1–12).

Posts 36
Ben Vargh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 4 2010 11:30 PM

Dave, Jack,

I should confess - both of you have been 'very NEAR helpful' Smile.  I learned to search better and for narrower results. These results also helped me to see civic pride in new positive light - use of that by Paul and in James - balanced with the higher heavenly one. But for this I would have had viewed it only negatively in context of Philippians 3:20. Thanks again!

I do not own William Barclay in Logos - I wish I had. Any of the results returned are not as good as William Barclay even though they get us close!

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 5 2010 5:04 AM

Ben Vargh:
do not own William Barclay in Logos - I wish I had.

I was fortunate enough to purchase Barclay just before Logos lost the license. Hopefully, they will regain that license.

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Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 5 2010 6:15 AM

Dave Hooton:

When I restricted the query to:-

roman NEAR citizenship NEAR pride NEAR philippians

the results came only from Holman Bible Handbook and Holman Concise Bible Commentary.

If you want Roman Pride (roman NEAR pride) the results come from resources like

NAC, Pulpit Commentary, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Institutes of the Christian Religion, Tyndale Bible Dictionary.

 

I'm starting to believe that "NEAR" should be the assumed default operator when no operator is entered. It's "AND" right now, isn't it? That never seems specific enough.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 36
Ben Vargh | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 5 2010 6:31 AM

Yes. AND is not picking up word relationships. It is seems to be returning articles with the words anywhere in it. I think if AND returns the results with NEAR on top of the list ranked according to their phrase density, title and so on, that should solve the problem.

 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 5 2010 4:02 PM

Ben Vargh:

Yes. AND is not picking up word relationships. It is seems to be returning articles with the words anywhere in it. I think if AND returns the results with NEAR on top of the list ranked according to their phrase density, title and so on, that should solve the problem.

AND is a Boolean operator, like OR, and neither convey proximity or nearness. But when you search by Verse/Section/chapter they are restricted to results in that Verse/Section/chapter - which reflects the boundaries of the search. So you use NEAR if you want AND with a proximity constraint, albeit not defined as a specific number of words! It would be a mistake to treat AND as a hybrid operator.

Dave
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Posts 36
Ben Vargh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 10 2010 3:01 PM

Hi Dave,

I agree on how the operators should work. But does not quite like how the search itself works. I  - like most users - am more interested in getting the results I want quickly and with the least knowledge and use of the search syntax. I have to admit that many a times google, as in this example, helps me get what I want quicker and simpler. The results will have articles with the phrase using the words I supply on top and articles with the merely the words themselves scattered all over the page at the bottom. I am not referring to advanced syntax search here - bust simple basic search. I ams sure that there would be a large community of logos users who care about better ease of use in this case.

Thanks for offering to help and all the insights.

Regards, Ben.

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