Faithlife Asks: How do you 'work' a Bible passage?

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This post has 12 Replies | 8 Followers

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LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Oct 14 2017 3:11 PM

How do you work on a passage as part of your study or sermon preparation?

Do you use visual filters? The highlighting tool? The sentence diagramming tool?

Are you able to do everything you want in one tool, or do you use a combination of tools?

Do you ever print it out and work on it with a pen or pencil?

I'd love to see examples; screenshots of your 'ready to preach' marked-up text, or scans/photos of anything you still do on paper. We want to make Logos even more useful, and knowing what you're doing -- and more importantly, what you're doing outside Logos because you can't do it inside Logos, will help.

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Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 16 2017 6:46 AM

Bob Pritchett:
We want to make Logos even more useful, and knowing what you're doing -- and more importantly, what you're doing outside Logos because you can't do it inside Logos, will help.

First here’s my steps list.

1. Diagram using ESV and the Logos 7 Diagramming tool.

2. I open a few translations and read it repeatedly and record my observations and questions about the text in my Bible Notes document in Logos 7.

3. I use my phone or tablet to mark up the text that I’ve exported from Logos to a document that I can draw on using my Apple Pencil or Samsung Galaxy Note stylus. (CAN’T DO THAT IN LOGOS!!)

4. I then do word studies using the built in Greek or Hebrew words study layout (great addition in recent version).

5. Now it’s time to consult things like dictionaries, atlases, etc. for key words, places, people.

6. Next I use passage guide to open all of my top commentaries prioritized in Logos and go through them to check my observations and conclusions.

7. By this point I’m ready to export my passage to Word using copy bible verse tool. I then go through the steps to discover the Textual Big Idea and then a Homilitecal Big Idea and then create my outlines, supporting materials for each movement in my sermon and then add intro/conclusion.

So the two key things I do outside of Logos

1. Marking up the text with a stylus

2. Writing the sermon. Sorry, not a fan of the Sermon Editor in Logos. I would never want to keep them that tied to one program no matter how long I’ve used it and how much $$ I’ve invested. I doubt Logos is going anywhere, but you never know. If all my sermons were stuck in Logos I couldn’t ever get them out, that would be horrible. Word is so ubiquitous that I am not worried about it going under fast enough that I couldn’t convert my documents.

While I never “print” I do export and use a “pencil”, that is an Apple PEncil. There is not a single quality tool for working with the Bible text with a stylus in a digital form. I’d trade my dog and <exaggeration>maybe one of my two children </exaggeration> for that feature in Logos. If Accordance added it, I’d immeidately begin using it regularly and leave Logos behind or use it far less. If Olive Tree added it, I do the same.

Posts 2515
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 16 2017 9:46 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:

2. Writing the sermon. Sorry, not a fan of the Sermon Editor in Logos. I would never want to keep them that tied to one program no matter how long I’ve used it and how much $$ I’ve invested. I doubt Logos is going anywhere, but you never know. If all my sermons were stuck in Logos I couldn’t ever get them out, that would be horrible. Word is so ubiquitous that I am not worried about it going under fast enough that I couldn’t convert my documents.

Greetings, Dr. Purcell;

This is where I would think it to be essential to have a non-proprietary format or a format where the file/content could easily be pulled into (or recognized by) other standardized programs (such as MS-Word).

I thank you for posting your method of working a Bible passage. It's always good to hear/read this from everyday pastors. These are who I learn the practical things from. Smile

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Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 16 2017 10:57 AM

Erwin Stull, Sr.:
This is where I would think it to be essential to have a non-proprietary format or a format where the file/content could easily be pulled into (or recognized by) other standardized programs (such as MS-Word).

Just to point out that exporting the sermon document into Word is supported. 

Posts 2515
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 16 2017 6:13 PM

Graham Criddle:

Erwin Stull, Sr.:
This is where I would think it to be essential to have a non-proprietary format or a format where the file/content could easily be pulled into (or recognized by) other standardized programs (such as MS-Word).

Just to point out that exporting the sermon document into Word is supported. 

Yes

Thanks Graham

Posts 1354
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 16 2017 8:27 PM

Bob Pritchett:
I'd love to see examples. We want to make Logos even more useful, and knowing what you're doing -- and more importantly, what you're doing outside Logos because you can't do it inside Logos, will help.

3326.Thomas Exegetical Toolbox v.5.pdf

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 20 2017 10:45 PM

It really depends on what I am needing to do with a Bible passage (exegesis paper, sermon, biblical language study, etc.).

I have used visual filters before when I need to highlight certain elements (usually morphological elements) in Bible passages (great for biblical language study).

During biblical language study or sermon prep or exegesis paper prep, if I read my passage through in the biblical languages, I'll usually perform a text flow diagram using the Logos diagramming tool (I tried Accordance's tool but had issues with it). I generally follow the principles in the Greek Exegesis book by Guthrie. I have done markups in the Logos diagramming tool, but these would be way easier to do with the iPad app using the Apple Pencil as I am getting used to doing more with Apple Pencil. I do have Doceri which can take a picture of my Mac's screen and allow me to annotate it. Something I haven't tried yet with Logos, but I might.

I also generally read multiple translations using Text Comparison and also compare major text families (when working in Greek) with the Text Comparison tool to spot differences between major text families.

My note taking/bibliography/final projects are done outside of Logos. I used to store some of this data in Logos and did the rest in a word processor such as Word or Nisus Writer Pro. Now I've centralized all of that with Nota Bene. In a perfect world, Logos would have every book or journal I'd ever need, but I've run into occasions where it doesn't, plus I need a solid tool to format my papers. Nota Bene is where I perform my paper formatting, store all my bibliographic citations (which getting citations from Logos to NB is a breeze), and is where I centralize all of my notes/research I get out of Logos and other apps so I can search it all with Orbis. 

I'm considering using Scrivener as a tool for outlining papers/projects and for rough drafts as well.

Logos is a great tool for reading, studying, and in-depth research, and it has decent document management with notes, clippings, bibliographies, etc. However, instead of storing all my research in Logos and doing my actual writing in Logos, I'd rather leave that to third party tools like Scrivener and Nota Bene and have Logos better integrate with them instead.

Adding the ability to access/annotate diagrams and possibly highlight text in the iOS app using Apple Pencil would be fun though.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 3144
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 21 2017 3:39 AM

So far I use mainly notes, resources, and exploratory tools (searches, browsers, interactives, guides). 

I don't use the diagramming tool because I don't find that the rewards of diagramming are proportional to the time it takes and I achieve the same goals via critical commentaries with visual support from the original language biblical text. 

The sermon tool was not available when I was preaching regularly and I have not had opportunity to test it yet. I would use it if turns out to be more wieldy than the current annotation system and a good way to store exegetical and homiletical outlines.

Posts 364
James C. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 23 2017 3:59 PM

I typically write out the text or print it out in block form with no paragraphs or chapters.

I then read and try to discover where I think the paragraph divisions are.

I then compare other translations to see where they break the text.

I then try to discover and connect subpoints and the main theme.

 I circle words I want to study further.

I write notes in the margins.

In Logos I use the diagram tool and one of the sentence analysis texts (Lexham Syntactic Greek New, Testament, OpenText, etc.).

I look for the main verbs and nouns. I chunk the text and make outlines. 

There are other things I do at times but these are the basics. 

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LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 23 2017 5:40 PM

Thanks! This is a great help.

James, do you use the Compare Pericopes tool to help identify the passage breaks? Just curious if it's helpful/discoverable for that...

Posts 364
James C. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 23 2017 6:00 PM

Yes I do. Very helpful feature. 

Posts 1157
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 24 2017 12:10 AM

I am retired IT professional and I mostly use Logos for learning, and preparing for small Bible study groups as one among them, not as lecturer.

I mostly use the layout tool and visual filters,highlighting etc., I am generally happy with the Logos tools.

I rarely print & pencil, sometimes I use Photoshop for writing or drawing on pictures or text.

I use a combination of tools, particularly MS office tools. (I have my own chronology in Excel format, not the ideal but ...)

I utilize the Logos search tools, but often I also resort to Google search and Wikipedia, to get quickly to the point.

I use an old ESRI map version which I originally bought for professional work years ago. It is not particularly user-friendly, but I can add my own info and edit it. Below the straight lines are approximate ancient roads and the yellow points are my added locations. I have to admit I should update some of my own info. (The picture below can be enlarged by tapping on it)

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 144
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 24 2017 7:03 AM

Bob Pritchett:
Do you ever print it out and work on it with a pen or pencil?

This is an area that would be great to do within Logos.

As far back as 2008, Mark Barnes used a set of videos to explain how he prepared a sermon.

The particular step, which I try to reproduce is described - in Mark's inimitable way - in the first 5 minutes of the video: https://vimeo.com/8312956 (referenced in http://www.logosbiblesoftwaretraining.com/other-videos/preparing-a-sermon-with-logos-4/  with the taking notes section) - it's worth watching the whole video.

I like marking up the text as shown in his video:

It would be great to have some tools that could do this inside Logos, rather than use multiple programs. It would be great if this step would also be available in the mobile app (think: iPad) where the touch control would make this step quick and efficient - a breeze!!

Furthermore, it would be great to extend this feature set to be used as a replacement 'mind-mapping' kind of software for initial brainstorms for lectures / sermons.

Thanks for asking.

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