Support for Linux?

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This post has 12 Replies | 3 Followers

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Bret Zimmerman | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Nov 17 2017 5:33 PM

I've long since dumped Windows for Linux and can't abide the extreme walled garden philosophy of Mac. So I've been running Logos in a virtual machine running Windows 7. That works ok, but it is a bit slow and lags some when switching between the host and guest os. Is there any possibility (or interest or is it just me?) in making Logos run natively on Linux?

Currently running Linux Mint which is a fork of Ubuntu.

Posts 5106
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 17 2017 8:27 PM

Not ideal but there is the web app.

-dan

Posts 3
Bret Zimmerman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 12:14 PM

That's too bad. It seems like there is enough interest in a native Linux version of Logos to make the effort worth it.

As an alternative, would it be possible release the source code to an earlier version of Logos to the open source community? They could ideally get it to run under WINE or even a full on port to Linux.

Posts 5106
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 6:01 PM

Not sure they would do that (they can answer for sure) but it was discussed several times in the big linux thread as to why WINE is highly unlikely to be possible.

-dan

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 10:50 PM

Bret Zimmerman:
It seems like there is enough interest in a native Linux version of Logos to make the effort worth it.

Welcome Big Smile

Thankful for Logos Web App => https://app.logos.com and Verbum Web App => https://app.verbum.com being usable by all Logos 7 and Verbum 7 users. Thankful for free Logos => Basic and => Verbum Basic so open source users can now use Web App (in browser with WebGL), which would enable Faithlife to quantify user interest. Enough open source users should provide business justification for porting, especially those who start with free Basic followed by subsequently purchasing more resources, ...

Bret Zimmerman:
As an alternative, would it be possible release the source code to an earlier version of Logos to the open source community? They could ideally get it to run under WINE or even a full on port to Linux.

Currently Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) only runs on Microsoft Windows (as open source community lacks an alternative). Hence WINE cannot display Logos user interface. Open source community also lacks a graphical emulator for Apple Cocoa: graphical system calls in the Darwin derivative are substantially different than GPL Linux => https://www.darlinghq.org/

FYI: porting Logos 4 Windows user interface to Mac took years (by many full time developers). Logos 5 and newer have substantial feature parity (so can easily switch platforms as desired). Logos wiki has => Mac Release Notes and History

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 215
Pieter J Kotze | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 4 2018 11:42 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Currently Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) only runs on Microsoft Windows (as open source community lacks an alternative). Hence WINE cannot display Logos user interface.

Is the only problem for using Logos in Linux then the User Interface of Logos and not the engine? Will the ViewModels etc... run in Wine or do they make use of WPF in those libraries? I'm asking because we as Linux users would be willing to build the GUI for Linux. I'll give 7 hours a week.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 5 2018 11:12 AM

Pieter J Kotze:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Currently Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) only runs on Microsoft Windows (as open source community lacks an alternative). Hence WINE cannot display Logos user interface.

Is the only problem for using Logos in Linux then the User Interface of Logos and not the engine? Will the ViewModels etc... run in Wine or do they make use of WPF in those libraries? I'm asking because we as Linux users would be willing to build the GUI for Linux. I'll give 7 hours a week.

User interface code is complex (online/offline features) and substantial. Logos wiki => Mac Release Notes and History shows full time Faithlife developers took 17 months (from Oct 2009 to Mar 2011) before Mac user interface had enough implementation to combine with Windows for simultaneous release of new feature(s) while continuing to improve parity. Took ~3 years for 99 % complete feature parity between Windows and Mac.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1
Gregory Jenks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2018 8:28 AM

The current problem is as follows.

1) Microsoft not only made updates mandatory, but it often interrupts work with a mandatory update often resulting in loss of work.

2) Microsoft is starting to charge to keep getting updates to Windows 7.

People are starting to drop Windows for Linux a lot more than before. It is becoming cost prohibitive for consumers. I am willing to pay for the features I get with Logos, but not at the additional cost, (much of this cost is not tangible), for sticking with Microsoft. 

I believe the work could be GREATLY minimized if Faithlife would focus on making this work with Mono (Linux .net alternative for Wine) and Wine.

BTW, is their a WINE alternative to run MAC software?  If there is, is there a way to run logos on Linux in that manner?

Greg

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Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2018 12:01 PM

Gregory Jenks:
People are starting to drop Windows for Linux a lot more than before.

Welcome Big Smile

Blog article => Global market share held by operating systems for desktop PCs, from January 2013 to July 2018 shows Windows market share being 82.88 % of desktop computers worldwide in July 2018 (down from 90.96 % in Jan 2013) while graphic shows macOS market share has noticeably increased since Jan '13 (from 7.95 % to 12.52 %) while Linux (open source) market share nearly doubled from 0.88 % in Jan 2013 to 1.71 % in Jul 2018.

Technical note: macOS includes hundreds of open source projects => https://opensource.apple.com/ and => https://developer.apple.com/opensource/

Personally choose when to update macOS 10.13.6 (System Preference for App Store has automatic options that can be enabled/disabled as desired)

Gregory Jenks:
I believe the work could be GREATLY minimized if Faithlife would focus on making this work with Mono (Linux .net alternative for Wine) and Wine.

Logos, Verbum, and Noet applications on macOS use Mono with Cocoa user interface code. Open Source community lacks graphical user interface alternatives for Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) and Apple Cocoa.

Personally dreaming of application port to the new iPhone 10x Max that has adequate processing power plus storage (up to 512 GB) for running full function application.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1558
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 12 2018 1:40 PM

I have followed Linux off an on since the 1990's. It does many things well - and probably the Internet would collapse without it. I personally use it for my Home File Server...

But it has never reached a critical mass for the desktop. It seems like every few years there are prophets claiming that now is the time that Linux will break out - usually because of something Microsoft has done that the user base doesn't like. Vista issues? Linux has desktops that are more like XP! Windows 8 Metro? Linux can give you a more traditional Windows experience!

But it has yet to catch on. Linux desktop has made amazing advances. It is SO much easier to set up and use than it used to be. But it still has not caught on. And until there is a sizable market for software companies, it is not worth their time.

And so our best bet is on WINE. And for better or worse, my understanding is that when Logos was rewritten from the ground up for Logos 4 they used a technology that MS offered that few other software packages use. I don't know enough to say Logos/Faithlife made a wise choice, but since it is such a minority choice, I can see MS Office running under WINE, but Logos cannot.

And with how Logos must protect how they encrypt some things in order to work with publishers who want their works protected, we seem stuck.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

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Forum MVP
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 15 2018 3:50 AM

Ken McGuire:
And with how Logos must protect how they encrypt some things in order to work with publishers who want their works protected, we seem stuck.

This might be an issue but I think it is possible to overcome.

****************

I recently bought a new tablet, Samsung Tab S4. (Not for logos, but for geophysical field work) It seems to be capable to run Logos, and the memory can be increased 400 GB.

It is tempting to try WINE or something similar to run Logos 7. Any advice?

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 15 2018 2:24 PM

Veli Voipio:
... or something similar to run Logos 7. Any advice?

Suggest trying a WebGL enabled browser (e.g.Chromium) with Logos Web App => https://app.logos.com and/or Verbum Web App => https://app.verbum.com

Keep Smiling Smile

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