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Posts 1789
Beloved | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Nov 29 2017 1:50 PM

Missing MJ thread and the momentary reappearance of Rosie causes me to reflect and to observe that MVPs are for whatever reason over represented by males. Denise is one poster who should be offered this status. Perhaps its already happened and she refused. But, if not then she should be a front-runner.

I'd like to see more diversity in this distinction. One man's view.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 233
Roger Dittmar | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 1:54 PM

Yes

Posts 470
Steve Maling | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 2:40 PM

Agreed!

Posts 6436
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 2:47 PM

Yes

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 951
Keith Pang | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 2:55 PM

I really doubt it has anything to do with gender...more than likely it is the people who are the most active and helpful that they count as an MVP. That being said it should be offered to anyone who qualifies what they consider to be an MVP and not strictly upon a number count of males and females.

Shalom, in Christ, Keith. Check out my music www.soundcloud.com/kpang808

Posts 5190
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 2:55 PM

What does an MVP do anyway? Or rather, what’s the job description?

DAL

Posts 9200
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 3:22 PM

Beloved:

Missing MJ thread and the momentary reappearance of Rosie causes me to reflect and to observe that MVPs are for whatever reason over represented by males. Denise is one poster who should be offered this status. Perhaps its already happened and she refused. But, if not then she should be a front-runner.

I'd like to see more diversity in this distinction. One man's view.

Oh, Beloved, I'd have start being nice, though I appreciate your thoughts. The criticality is knowlege. I don't know how many times Dave has had to correct me. It's truly embarrassing.

But more seriously, the real problem at hand is MJ. I suppose her present pursuits are important, but her approach on Logos really needs 'officializing'. So much work seems to disappear as the threads age. I really miss her advice and ascerbic wit. 


Posts 23
Daniel Bender | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 3:42 PM

Keith Pang:

I really doubt it has anything to do with gender...more than likely it is the people who are the most active and helpful that they count as an MVP. That being said it should be offered to anyone who qualifies what they consider to be an MVP and not strictly upon a number count of males and females.

Thank you Keith.YesYes

Posts 23
Daniel Bender | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 3:44 PM

Denise:
But more seriously, the real problem at hand is MJ. I suppose her present pursuits are important, but her approach on Logos really needs 'officializing'. So much work seems to disappear as the threads age. I really miss her advice and ascerbic wit. 

MJ is uniquely gifted; I didn't interact with her but loved reading her posts.

Posts 879
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 3:59 PM

Daniel Bender:
MJ is uniquely gifted; I didn't interact with her but loved reading her posts.

Precisely my thoughts. While I respect MJ and Rosie their wishes not to currently participate, but the forums are the poorer for their absence.

Posts 5190
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 5:29 PM

JohnB:

Daniel Bender:
MJ is uniquely gifted; I didn't interact with her but loved reading her posts.

Precisely my thoughts. While I respect MJ and Rosie their wishes not to currently participate, but the forums are the poorer for their absence.

If that’s how little you think of yourself and others then maybe you should leave too. 

The way I see it, everybody contributes and helps each other find what they need with or without Rosie and MJ. Other MVP’s contribute too and sometimes very little. Have you ever thought that maybe this MVP deal is not really needed? Personally, I think this nonsense title (MVP) has caused many MVP’s to feel unneeded pressure and as a consequence they end up leaving or go quiet for a while. Or others get into heated arguments over the contributions they make or don’t make.

I think life goes on and as long as we help each other out every one can get what they need MVP title or not.

My 2 cents! 👍😁👌

DAL

Ps. Forums just lack MJ’s and Rosie’s insights, but there are way less arguments now than when they were here. And no, they were not the problem but something has changed and is more quiet now.

Posts 9200
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 6:09 PM

Now, now, DAL. Your memory might be almost as bad as mine. But I think statistically, MVP or not, it'd be a tossup. George vs Matthew? I was shocked the day Dave got frustrated with Logos.  When Graham got his sermons unintensionally published, I held my breath.  Oh my.

I always thought an MVP's job was to demonstrate, no matter what, Logos is good. Or at least not bad. I haven't seen an exception. Dave resigned so he could say something negative. Just my observation.

I'm not sure what the MVPs' purpose was. My impression was that the forum was a user request from an older system ... MVPs sort of to keep it down to a dull roar.  Periodically Logos employees say staff input is voluntary. Come and go and iffy.

Regarding gender, when you're down to zero, I suppose counting might be a waste. My own frustration (a little), is that there really is not much distance between a listening church-goer, and the fascinating world of the Bible using Logos. But too often, Logos and its champions try to present it as over-complicated. A big loss these days to normal believers, I think.


Posts 1789
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 6:38 PM

DAL:
Have you ever thought that maybe this MVP deal is not really needed? Personally, I think this nonsense title (MVP) has caused many MVP’s to feel unneeded pressure and as a consequence they end up leaving or go quiet for a while.

Now here I think you have hit upon something. It is biblically sound for us to be one and though titles are present in the church, I think that they are more a religious tradition of man rather than a teaching of our Lord, I wander from the point. 

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 8659
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 8:09 PM

Denise:
I'm not sure what the MVPs' purpose was. My impression was that the forum was a user request from an older system ... MVPs sort of to keep it down to a dull roar.  Periodically Logos employees say staff input is voluntary. Come and go and iffy.

Being one of the original people asked to be an MVP let me share what transpired.

There was at one time a user group for Logos software that a number of us were active in. When Faithlife was working on Logos 4, which was a huge paradigm shift from Libronix and its previous software, they invited a number of us to beta test the software. We were at that point sworn to secrecy (seems silly now, BTW). I believe all the current MVPs except Father Devin Rosa, Bruce Dunning, Lynden Williams, and (IIRC) Graham Criddle, were in that original group of testers. A couple of them have since resigned, two have gone to be with the Lord, and one or two are now FL employees.

With the launch of Logos 4 Faithlife also launched the Forums and asked all of us to be highly available and visible in the Forums during the first months after Logos 4 launched to give help based on our experience as beta testers. Not all agreed, but many did and they form the core of the group today. We were made MVPs for whatever reason Faithlife thought that was important. 

MVPs have never moderated the Forums. We never were asked to and do not have the power that moderators on most forums have. We have tried to explain things and occasionally tried to quiet things down (which often got us abuse from some folks along the way). FL does not require that we agree with them, and sometimes we don't and express that in the Forums. They do ask us to check with them if there is a serious issue to be sure we understand it or they have a chance to fix it before blasting them on the Forums.

Since Logos 4, all MVPs have been invited to participate in closed beta testing prior to the release of new versions, that is until Logos 7 which really didn't have anything that hadn't been tested in public betas throughout the life of Logos 6.

Faithlife does occasionally ask the MVPs for their opinions on planned new features or changes (like the recent change in the policy concerning the pricing of pre-pubs after release). 

I would argue that MVPs played a very important role after the release of Logos 4 and continued to do so in Logos 5. Since Logos 6 and the new way features are tested and released, their role as experts is less needed. We have many very experienced users (like some of you reading this thread) who can answer many questions as well as any MVP, if not better. So going forward I don't know how important designating people as MVPs will be. Faithlife invited people other than MVPs into closed beta testing in Logos 6 (perhaps earlier). Public beta testing since Logos 6 covers all the new features that are released. So unless FL heads in a radically new direction that would once again require a corps of specially trained people prior to the release of new software, MVPs may slowly ride off into the sunset and be no more. 

Remember, MVPs are not moderators. We exist to help users, but as the user base and expertise of many non-MVPs has grown, there is less for MVPs to do in terms of direct support. So it has been my pleasure to serve as an MVP, but I find my own time in the forums has decreased greatly and the Forums are strong without me and without the daily input of a number of the other MVPs.

MJ made a number of unique contributions. Dave Hooten is doing the same in different ways, currently working on updating parts of the wiki. He is also one of our Search experts. Mark Barnes contributed a lot with his introduction and training videos before FL caught on and started making their own (of course he's made other contributions as well). These MVPs did much outside the scope of their MVP duties because of their desire to be of help.

I would love to see MJ and Rosie back, but am grateful for having gotten to know them a bit and to have shared a love for scripture and scripture study with them. They are both special people to me.

For me, yes, there should be both men and women serving as MVPs. There should be vocational Christian and lay MVPs. What we see on the Forums is a huge preponderance of men participating. I suppose that limits FL's prospects to enlist women as MVPs to a large extent. 

I wouldn't be surprised if FL allows natural attrition to occur and lets the MVP group become smaller, rather than trying to appoint new ones.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1333
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 8:44 PM

Thank you Mark for writing in depth about the role of MVP. It always make me wonder how you with love, patience, grace, and great attitude treat everyone here. Thank you and all other MVPs for your valuable help.

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 2839
Forum MVP
Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 29 2017 10:55 PM

Thanks for that little history lesson, Mark. Those Logos4 betas and release days were sweet.

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

Posts 17073
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 30 2017 2:49 AM

DAL:
What does an MVP do anyway?

Related question is meaning of MVP ? (found many valiant possibilities)

  • Many Volunteer Posts
  • Most Voluminous Posters
  • Multitudinal Versed Practitioner
  • Maddeningly Voracious Poster
  • Memory Vaguely Productive
  • Mostly Veracious Predicator
  • Mischievously Vulgar Preachers
  • Masters of Virtuous Postings
  • Mentally Vacuous Pontificators
  • Minimal Viable Products
  • Magnaminous Voluntary Posts
  • More Volumes Please
  • Multi-Valent Procrastinator
  • Ministerial Valiant Pupils

Mark Smith:
I believe all the current MVPs except Father Devin Rosa, Bruce Dunning, Lynden Williams, and (IIRC) Graham Criddle, were in that original group of testers. A couple of them have since resigned, two have gone to be with the Lord, and one or two are now FL employees.

Thankful for MVP invitation in Mar 2011 along with Mike Binks and Graham Criddle (Logos 4.2a). Thankful for MVP additions in Oct 2012 (Logos 4.6a):

  • N. B. Mick
  • Milford Charles Murray
  • Lynden Williams
  • Andy Evans
  • Philana Crouch

Thankful for Bruce Dunning accepting MVP invitation in Aug 2013 (Logos 5.1)

Apologies for missing some MVP's while looking at older threads.

Thankful for public Logos 4 Mac Alpha pre-releases that felt like opening Christmas presents every week or two as more features became usable on Mac.

Mark Smith:
I would love to see MJ and Rosie back, but am grateful for having gotten to know them a bit and to have shared a love for scripture and scripture study with them. They are both special people to me.

Concur with special plus appreciate most (while loving all because God Loves). Thankful for many friendly forum discussions: have learned a lot plus have a lot to learn. Looking at many older threads brought Big Smile and Crying

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1703
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 30 2017 5:14 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Related question is meaning of MVP ? (found many valiant possibilities)

  • MacGyver vs. Predator (that would be quite an epic movie...)

--
Jan Krohn -- Returning back to Germany after 5 years of Mission Work in Cambodia. Starting Next Now...
www.heidoc.net -- Vyrso Freebies Newsletter -- Bible Apps -- Secret Microsoft Downloads

Posts 9200
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 30 2017 6:38 AM

Well, my thoughts, I think the concept was a corporate mistake. 

1. I don't have enough fingers, toes, etc as to when MVP's were cast into defenders of poor Logos decisions. As much as the various MVP's might have delighted in defending or suggesting work-arounds, it created a considerable amount of frustration that belonged to Logos, not the MVP's.

2. The forum became Logos' crutch for poor Logos communication.  I see a thread even today, where a Logos staff member dumped a major  announcement, then ran. I can't imagine most read the forums daily, and the threads disappear quickly.

3. Logos (at least for a while) sold books, not software. But discussion of books is few and far between. Many quite valuable in the Lord's service. I go to outside sources, none religious-oriented.

4. Since the whole thing appears catch as catch can, it encourages poor discipline in Logos. Iffy response to errors, suggsted books, suggested features, no manuals, zillions of videos, etc

But, one has to admit, it's interesting!


Posts 441
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 30 2017 6:53 AM

Denise:
The forum became Logos' crutch for poor Logos communication

I very much agree with this.  I have to copy and paste announcements for future reference.

Denise:
Since the whole thing appears catch as catch can, it encourages poor discipline in Logos

And poor discipline starts at the top.  An employee can only fix what is in their ''pod.''  Senior management has to institute a fix for the whole hive.

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