Syntax Searches

Page 1 of 1 (14 items)
This post has 13 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 30234
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Apr 17 2010 5:59 PM

Okay, I am appropriately embarrassed. Embarrassed I am trying to go through Diagrammatical Analysis and build X-bar trees and syntactic queries that parallel the diagram structures. I've used the clausal diagrams but not done much with queries since my Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic is minimal. So guess what? I'm stuck trying to build the queries for a simple subject/simple verb construct. Yes, I've checked the wiki and the help and I can get more complex structures ... but anyone willing to help me out?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 418
davidphillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 17 2010 6:57 PM

MJ -

No need to feel embarrased Smile The best way I've found to learn syntax searches is to mimic them from the databases.

I took John 3:3, which has a very simple subject/verb construct "Jesus answered". The first picture shows the search and the graph, but with no specific details for the search other than it is looking for a predicator followed by a subject.

An "anything" operator could be put between them to allow for other items to intervene.

A "gap" operator could be used to allow the order to be reversed and allow for other items to intervene (notice than "anything" has been removed. It is unnecessary in an unordered group).

We could then make the search useful by specifying Jesus at the word level of the subject to find out anytime Jesus acts (or to be more specific, to find out anytime Jesus is by name stated to do something).

 

Let me know if that was helpful or if you have any follow-ups.

Posts 30234
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 17 2010 7:02 PM

Thank you. Yes, I see the bit I was missing and think I've got it now.Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 30234
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 17 2010 7:57 PM

Okay, I don't quite have it. However, I have found another way to crash this beta which puts me in good company. Smile However, how do I specify that I am interested only in those cases where there are no modifiers i.e. I want to pick up only PC's without adjective or adverbs but allow conjunctions and determiners.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 418
davidphillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 18 2010 5:24 AM

MJ,

You'll need to add the elements you don't want, then exclude them. In this search, I've added a modifier, specifically a definer that flows from the head term of the subject and excluded it. This will get rid of hits such as Matthew 1:16.

Adverbs should be excluded by adding an Adjunct that is at the same level as the Predicator and then excluding it, however currently it isn't working for me (not only are they not excluded, but they're counted multiple times!). I have to run now. I'll see if I can figure out why it isn't working later.

Posts 3810
spitzerpl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 18 2010 6:02 AM

Thanks for this thread. It makes me want to look into the syntactical searches.

Posts 418
davidphillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 18 2010 10:02 AM

Ok,

There is a little glitch in using "exclusions" in unordered groups. Putting an exclusion in an unordered group doesn't cause the search to say "this cannot appear anywhere." Rather, it checks each permutation of the order. So if we're trying to exclude adjuncts (to get rid of adverbs), and it checks if there is an adverb before the Subject and Predicator, and there isn't, that's a hit, even if there is an adjunct later. So if you want to exclude an item that would be a direct child of an unordered group, it is better to not use an unordered group and instead copy and paste the search and change the order of the items manually.

 

Even this search isn't perfect, as it would allow an adjunct to appear either before the subject or after the predicator. There needs to be an easy way to fully exclude an item from a search. Or if there is, I'm missing it Sad

Posts 26033
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Apr 18 2010 11:30 PM

David B Phillips:
Even this search isn't perfect, as it would allow an adjunct to appear either before the subject or after the predicator.

The following example works. For example it excludes Matt 3:5 which has an Adjunct before and after the Predicator. In general exclusion applies to the whole of the parent node ie. it is not present in the PC in this case.

Note that I excluded EC and modifiers from the Subject by specifying "only child" (it is not generally needed for the Predicator in OpenText).

David B Phillips:
There needs to be an easy way to fully exclude an item from a search.

With Unordered Group do as follows:-

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 30234
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 19 2010 12:25 AM

Thank you to all of you who helped me work my through what I'd expected to be a "simple" query. I have learned a great deal.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 418
davidphillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 19 2010 5:31 AM

Thanks Dave, that's really helpful!

Posts 99
Brian Kempson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 13 2013 12:38 PM

Hi David

I am new to Syntax searches but I noticed your helpful advice above - so I have a question:

Can you please tell me how you can do a syntax search along the lines of

Clause 1:  "Jesus" AND "said"  (using Greek lemmas)

And - in any subsequent clause -  "born again"  (using Greek lemmas)

I have got it working with OR between Clauses 2 & 3 - but of course I get verses that have (Jesus AND answered) OR (born again) - where I am looking for a result of (Jesus AND answered) plus (born again) in any subsequent clause.

Is such a search possible? Can you advise?

Many thanks

Brian kempson

Posts 26033
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2013 5:31 PM

Brian Kempson:

Can you please tell me how you can do a syntax search along the lines of

Clause 1:  "Jesus" AND "said"  (using Greek lemmas)

And - in any subsequent clause -  "born again"  (using Greek lemmas)

You can, but the Bible Search is much easier  e.g.  "born again" in Words of Christ (rather than All Bible Text) gives Jn 3:3, 3:7, but "Jesus" only appears in Jn 3:3. To replicate it quickly in Syntax Search (Cascadia) use something like:

Replace the English words with Greek, and note the dotted line connector in the third row. This was not easy to replicate and OpenText is much simpler.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 99
Brian Kempson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2013 7:25 PM

Hi David

Thanks so much for your reply.

I copied what you had done but could not emulate dotted lines - how did you do that?  Syntax query did not work - is that because it needs dotted lines?

These searches appear quite complicated, is there an instruction manual to be found? I siml do not understand all the terminology & concepts.

Thanks again

Brian

Posts 23662
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2013 11:42 PM

Brian Kempson:
I copied what you had done but could not emulate dotted lines - how did you do that? 

Select an item in the search grid and click "Matching Skip Levels" under the General section on the right

Brian Kempson:
These searches appear quite complicated, is there an instruction manual to be found? I siml do not understand all the terminology & concepts.

The article at http://wiki.logos.com/Setting_up_a_Syntax_Search (and the links at the top right of that page) are helpful here.

Page 1 of 1 (14 items) | RSS