Introducing Faithlife Connect

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Posts 1643
Rick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 6:48 AM

Graham Criddle:
The "mostly" is because while it shows how many Logos books are included it doesn't detail what these books are.

To see what resources are included, click the i and then "See all titles..."

Peace  Smile

Romans 14:19 (NRSV)
19 Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

Posts 1881
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 6:49 AM

Phil (and Chris),

In reading these various threads about Faithlife Connect, it seems that there are quite a few Logos Now subscribers who approached it the same way I did. LN at $99/yr was a good value because it assured that I would always have all the Logos (desktop) features even across major version upgrades. In the past, I would spend more than $300 on version upgrades because I was forced to buy some level of library to get the new version's features. With LN, I could always have the features. I have ~10K resources - I don't need more books. I didn't care about any of the other LN benefits: courses, resources, etc. I only cared about the application features (which includes datasets needed by those features).

Now I look at https://connect.faithlife.com/now-connect-compare and see that half of the features/datasets I had in LN are going away if I stick with "Starter." If I want to keep the features, I've got to pay ~2.5x what I was paying for LN, even though I don't want any of the other "benefits" of Faithlife Connect. If you keep with a 2 year version upgrade cycle, if I can get all new major version features for < $480, I'm better off w/o Connect. It's simply ridiculous and presumptuous pricing. Am I owed an ongoing LN subscription and features at $99/yr? No. But there was certainly an implicit promise made by Faithlife to its customers about the ongoing value and benefits of LN which has been ripped out from under us.

I evaluate the value of subscription models based on how long-term pricing compares to the purchase model. For example, I subscribe to Office 365 at $99 / year. This is a great value because previously I would spend $300 or more every 3 years on Office upgrades, and with the subscription I get 5 licenses. LN was clearly a good long-term value. Connect "Essentials" isn't. And "Starter" takes away features I'd had access to.

From my point of view, there's one thing FL could do to make this pill easier to swallow: For major version upgrades, provide a way to purchase all the new features and datasets in the upgrade without having to buy any kind of a library or resource package - *** on day one of the new version ***. That way I'm assured of access to the new features without having to buy new books, which I don't need.

Thanks for reading,

Donnie

Posts 205
Marshall Harrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 6:49 AM

Check your subscriptions. I did and found the FaithLife subscription set to auto renew. If you are not careful you may end up paying for something you don't want.

I don't post much. But, I have been a Logos user since around 1995. I purchased Now mainly for the Logos 7 features and I appreciate the free books etc. 

I am not going to participate in Connect. More money I can't afford and less real value. Once my subscription to Now expires this November I will be force to walk away after 23+ years.

I'm a retiree and a layperson. The cost has now outpaced the value for me. And that saddens me.

Posts 717
Tim Hensler | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 6:57 AM

Randy W. Sims:
I only want the Logos features as they are developed. That's my sole reason for subscribing to Now. The other bits were an appreciated addition but I would pay the price just for the updates.

I agree and subscribe to Now for the same reason.  I have plenty of books and don't need more that are selected by someone else.  I buy what I need, I don't want to pay for more that I don't need.

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Posts 1881
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 6:57 AM

One more point...

The inability to pay annually, not monthly, is a horrendous shortcoming. I can't imagine that people prefer to have a monthly amount added to their cash flow vs. a once-per-year payment.

Donnie

Posts 1923
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 6:58 AM

Scot Wright:
Whenever Faithlife/Logos has a major release or announcement it is always a train wreck. The email that was sent to me out of the blue did nothing to help me understand this new program, created more questions than information and just plain confused me. It would seem to me that a basic marketing skill would be to anticipate your customers questions and concerns.

This roll out has the same feel so far as the roll out of L4.

Posts 145
Dustin Pearson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:00 AM

Donnie Hale:

Phil (and Chris),

In reading these various threads about Faithlife Connect, it seems that there are quite a few Logos Now subscribers who approached it the same way I did. LN at $99/yr was a good value because it assured that I would always have all the Logos (desktop) features even across major version upgrades. In the past, I would spend more than $300 on version upgrades because I was forced to buy some level of library to get the new version's features. With LN, I could always have the features. I have ~10K resources - I don't need more books. I didn't care about any of the other LN benefits: courses, resources, etc. I only cared about the application features (which includes datasets needed by those features).

Now I look at https://connect.faithlife.com/now-connect-compare and see that half of the features/datasets I had in LN are going away if I stick with "Starter." If I want to keep the features, I've got to pay ~2.5x what I was paying for LN, even though I don't want any of the other "benefits" of Faithlife Connect. If you keep with a 2 year version upgrade cycle, if I can get all new major version features for < $480, I'm better off w/o Connect. It's simply ridiculous and presumptuous pricing. Am I owed an ongoing LN subscription and features at $99/yr? No. But there was certainly an implicit promise made by Faithlife to its customers about the ongoing value and benefits of LN which has been ripped out from under us.

I evaluate the value of subscription models based on how long-term pricing compares to the purchase model. For example, I subscribe to Office 365 at $99 / year. This is a great value because previously I would spend $300 or more every 3 years on Office upgrades, and with the subscription I get 5 licenses. LN was clearly a good long-term value. Connect "Essentials" isn't. And "Starter" takes away features I'd had access to.

From my point of view, there's one thing FL could do to make this pill easier to swallow: For major version upgrades, provide a way to purchase all the new features and datasets in the upgrade without having to buy any kind of a library or resource package - *** on day one of the new version ***. That way I'm assured of access to the new features without having to buy new books, which I don't need.

Thanks for reading,

Donnie

The more I look at this, LN subscribers should have been grandfathered into the Essentials level at our current pricing. The comparison chart linked in this post shows we were already paying for the features at that price...and really as many are posting it was for the datasets...

Posts 1881
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:04 AM

Dustin Pearson:
The more I look at this, LN subscribers should have been grandfathered into the Essentials level at our current pricing. The comparison chart linked in this post shows we were already paying for the features at that price...and really as many are posting it was for the datasets...

It seems to me they should just offer a level that is the exact equivalent of Logos Now for the current LN price. It seems to me they didn't know their LN customer base and assumed the extras were a big sell. I don't think they were. If they just moved me over to a "Faithlife Connect 'Now'" level that was $99/yr, let me pay annually, and gave me all features / datasets, *** even without any free books or courses or TV ***, I'd be fine with that and move forward without concern.

Donnie

Posts 1923
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:06 AM

Donnie Hale:

One more point...

The inability to pay annually, not monthly, is a horrendous shortcoming. I can't imagine that people prefer to have a monthly amount added to their cash flow vs. a once-per-year payment.

Donnie

I agree with this.  I do not need another monthly payment added to my life.  But I would consider more carefully if there was an annual payment option

Posts 717
Tim Hensler | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:07 AM

I just received a download this morning of 42 temporary books in my library that I didn't already have.  I think it is related to the Faithlife Connect Starter subscription that I've been switched to.  If that's the case, then I already own 55 of the books that's included in that plan.  Without dynamic pricing, I'm paying for books I already own.  On top of that, I'm not interested in the books that were downloaded. 

I don't like the idea that someone else is deciding which books I need.  I'd rather have a plan that allows me to select which books I get and whether or not I rent or buy.

To me, temporary books (aka renting books) is for research analysts who only need the resources for a particular project and not afterwards.  I study daily and proclaim and explain the Scriptures weekly.  If a resource helps me do that today, then I should have it available tomorrow, so I buy it.  I use notes a lot, so having the resource in my library keeps the integrity of the notes intact and their context and related information available.

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Posts 1881
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:08 AM

I was auto-converted to "Starter." I still have not received the email that we're supposed to get.

I've disabled auto-renew on Starter. Depending on how FL responds to this pushback on Connect, I'll delete all my pre-pubs and community pricing orders.

Donnie

Posts 1923
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:08 AM

Donnie Hale:
I evaluate the value of subscription models based on how long-term pricing compares to the purchase model. For example, I subscribe to Office 365 at $99 / year. This is a great value because previously I would spend $300 or more every 3 years on Office upgrades, and with the subscription I get 5 licenses. LN was clearly a good long-term value. Connect "Essentials" isn't. And "Starter" takes away features I'd had access to.

Very good point

Posts 1073
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:09 AM

Donnie Hale:

It seems to me they should just offer a level that is the exact equivalent of Logos Now for the current LN price. It seems to me they didn't know their LN customer base and assumed the extras were a big sell. I don't think they were. If they just moved me over to a "Faithlife Connect 'Now'" level that was $99/yr, let me pay annually, and gave me all features / datasets, *** even without any free books or courses or TV ***, I'd be fine with that and move forward without concern.

Donnie

I didn't mind when they went from--what was it? $89--to $99. I'd tolerate an increase to, say, $120 if it were locked in for maybe 3 years. Not more than that, and especially not the outrageous >100% increase.

And you are correct, FaithLife really doesn't know their customer base as well as they should. I like Logos. I like many of its tools. I'm not at all interested in FaithLife's productions, TVs, or courses. And I don't have endless funds to absorb every increase.

 Logos Now Subscriber -- 22/2/2018

Posts 717
Tim Hensler | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:21 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
There may end up being a few small things that just don't make sense outside of a subscription, but for the most part just about everything should be available as a perpetual license in Logos 8.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
You can see the differences between the Logos 7 Extended Feature Set and the Logos Cloud Feature Set in this comparison chart. Most of these items missing from the Logos 7 Extended Feature Set will be added to Logos 8.

Hi Phil,

I think you make two significant points here.  Many of us subscribe to Logos Now because of the "future" features, functions, data sets and resources.  It is reassuring that most of these will be in Logos 8 and our Logos Now investment was worth the cost (especially considering the Logos 8 coupon code discount for Now subscribers - thank you).

It makes sense that Logos TV and the web app are subscription based, but I don't use these.  The web app isn't available everywhere I use Logos on my PC laptop and I only found a couple Logos TV resources I could use (but did not need) in my ministry.  I'd rather not pay for the TV/Web services since I'm not using them.  I understand they are included in my Now subscription, but the value of the Now subscription is in the enhancements it makes to the Logos application, not the extra Logos TV or the web app.  The free books (and other Logos Now perks) have also been a nice blessing - thank you.  I use the android Bible app for teaching and preaching and the Faithlife eBooks app for reading books. They are much more available and reliable than any web app.

The month preview of books in the Now program was nice - It gave me an opportunity to see books I don't have and buy those I will use at a discounted price, which a did a few times.  I wasn't stuck with books that were selected by someone else and that I don't need.

I think the plans need to be reworked.  

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Posts 2055
Forum MVP
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:22 AM

Donnie Hale:

Dustin Pearson:
The more I look at this, LN subscribers should have been grandfathered into the Essentials level at our current pricing. The comparison chart linked in this post shows we were already paying for the features at that price...and really as many are posting it was for the datasets...

It seems to me they should just offer a level that is the exact equivalent of Logos Now for the current LN price. It seems to me they didn't know their LN customer base and assumed the extras were a big sell. I don't think they were. If they just moved me over to a "Faithlife Connect 'Now'" level that was $99/yr, let me pay annually, and gave me all features / datasets, *** even without any free books or courses or TV ***, I'd be fine with that and move forward without concern.

I agree. A package with just the features would be perfect. I don't have any argument about the essential package and up. There is nothing wrong with them that I see and a good value for those who want more - I hope a lot of folks sign up. But I just want Logos new features/datasets. All of them. At a reasonable price.

Posts 21638
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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:25 AM

Donnie Hale:
The inability to pay annually, not monthly, is a horrendous shortcoming. I can't imagine that people prefer to have a monthly amount added to their cash flow vs. a once-per-year payment.

As far as I can see there are options for both monthly and annual payments - the slider on the left-hand side of the pricing page.

Posts 717
Tim Hensler | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:26 AM

Randy W. Sims:
A package with just the features would be perfect. I don't have any argument about the essential package and up. There is nothing wrong with them that I see and a good value for those who want more - I hope a lot of folks sign up. But I just want Logos new features/datasets. All of them. At a reasonable price.

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes 

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Posts 241
danwdoo | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:29 AM

Randy W. Sims:

Donnie Hale:

Dustin Pearson:
The more I look at this, LN subscribers should have been grandfathered into the Essentials level at our current pricing. The comparison chart linked in this post shows we were already paying for the features at that price...and really as many are posting it was for the datasets...

It seems to me they should just offer a level that is the exact equivalent of Logos Now for the current LN price. It seems to me they didn't know their LN customer base and assumed the extras were a big sell. I don't think they were. If they just moved me over to a "Faithlife Connect 'Now'" level that was $99/yr, let me pay annually, and gave me all features / datasets, *** even without any free books or courses or TV ***, I'd be fine with that and move forward without concern.

I agree. A package with just the features would be perfect. I don't have any argument about the essential package and up. There is nothing wrong with them that I see and a good value for those who want more - I hope a lot of folks sign up. But I just want Logos new features/datasets. All of them. At a reasonable price.

Agree... Please add a feature only option!

Posts 772
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:35 AM

Here's a challenge to all of those who are so terribly upset with Faithlife and their pricing scheme:  Go and assemble, say, a single Passage Guide of comparable Logos-quality using only the tools and means of a mere thirty years ago (I realize that many are too young to relate to this but the challenge is still applicable to you).  In other words, take pencil, paper, index cards, and typewriter to a theological library and manually research, document, and then organize into a professional-looking presentation all of the information that Logos would assemble for you.  And don't forget the time required for those interlibrary loans.   Any idea as to how long this chore would take you (assuming you don't get discouraged and quit)? Weeks, perhaps months.  And yet, with a few simple keystrokes and a couple of seconds of computer cycles, you have biblical research of a quality and quantity such as the world has never seen before.  Incredible, simply incredible.  But don't stop there ... consider also the datasets, the ability to search an entire library with a simple push of a button, the hyperlinking of every book in the library to every other book, the tools, etc. that you have in even the most basic Logos configuration.

Don't you recognize the enormous explosion in biblical studies that is happening right before your very eyes and that we are blessed to be a part of?  History rightly judges Gutenberg and his moveable type to have been a giant in his day and a necessary cog for the Reformation which changed the world ... imagine how it will judge the advent of the computer and Logos!

And yet, we whine about a few extra dollars to make it all happen.  We even impugn the motives of the Christian brothers and sisters at FaithLife.  Many seem to think that unless they have taken a monkish vow of poverty and work long hours for a crust of bread and a sip of water, they are somehow under the power of avarice.

But I say, Bring it on!  I am happy to invest in this amazing gift to the Church.  Even if I don't use all of the bells and whistles, I am pleased to know that I can help the development of these tools for others - not only for today but into the future as well.

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

Posts 1881
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:37 AM

What I see with that slider is: "Annual billed monthly" vs. "Month-to-month."

If I were to get Connect, I'd want "Annual billed annually."

Donnie

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