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This post has 389 Replies | 32 Followers

Posts 244
Claude Brown Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 26 2018 8:43 AM

Okay Have been making my way through the wilderness and just when I thought I made it out I fell into a hole. FLC says that have access to T&T Clark Johannine Studies (10 vols.), but having tried the online app to no avail. How do access the collection without outright purchase? Any clues ? By the way only two days left...

Posts 1048
William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 26 2018 8:48 AM

Donnie Hale:

3) Related to whatever that number would be, I have to wonder how FL's competitors can remain viable and profitable at < $100 / year upgrade prices when Bob says FL can't. 

FL has over 400 employees. I believe Accordance is around 50 (according to glassdoor), and OliveTree was around 20 when they were acquired by HarperCollins. They don't have to sell as much software to support their respective organizations. It's also possible that they're willing to "stay in their lane" while it looks like FL has more ... ambition.

I suspect what happened is that Logos went through a period of exponential growth when they offered deals that were too good to be true (e.g. the Christmas sale of 2011). That's what got me on board. That growth has probably slowed, but the growth of business expenses rarely slows, so now they probably have to fight for every penny that used to roll in easily.

Posts 9964
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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 26 2018 9:00 AM

Claude Brown Jr:

Okay Have been making my way through the wilderness and just when I thought I made it out I fell into a hole. FLC says that have access to T&T Clark Johannine Studies (10 vols.), but having tried the online app to no avail. How do access the collection without outright purchase? Any clues ? By the way only two days left...

I answered in the other thread as it seems more appropriate over there. But you should be able to see those books.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 205
Marshall Harrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 26 2018 9:27 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

 

You're correct. There's currently a one-to-one relationship between the following:

  • Logos 7 Basic Library and Logos Cloud Basic in Faithlife Connect Basic
  • Logos 7 Starter Library and Logos Cloud Starter in Faithlife Connect Starter
  • Logos 7 Bronze Library and Logos Cloud Essentials in Faithlife Connect Essentials
  • Logos 7 Silver Library and Logos Cloud Standard in Faithlife Connect Standard
  • Logos 7 Gold Library and Logos Cloud Plus in Faithlife Connect Plus
  • Logos 7 Platinum Library and Logos Cloud Professional in Faithlife Connect Professional
  • Logos 7 Diamond Library and Logos Cloud Premium in Faithlife Connect Premium
  • Logos 7 Portfolio Library and Logos Cloud Ultimate in Faithlife Connect Ultimate

That will likely change when Logos 8 comes out. They won't necessarily stay in lockstep. It was the easiest way of improving the quality of Logos Cloud libraries when we did the Cloud relaunch last year.

But presently, for example, a Logos 7 Bronze or higher owner would gain no new Logos base package library resources by getting Faithlife Connect Essentials.

To reiterate my position again. First, no hard feelings. I was upset at first but you guys have responded and addressed my concerns. For that I thank you.

I am retired. I am a layperson and very rarely teach though I have/will participate in group discussions. I own the L7 starter feature set but Now gives me access to the full set. I estimate that like a lot of users I only utilize about 50% of the feature set. Part of that is ignorance about the features on my part and part is I just haven't needed some features. I'll wait until my Now expires on 11/27/18 and see if I lose any features that I commonly use. If I do lose any used features then I'll consider purchasing L8 if enough of the lost features are included in L8. Since I own the Silver base package I'll not get any new  resources from any of the Connect subscriptions.

I currently have 2700+ that includes a lot of books purchased with your Christmas special promotions that you used to do and by purchasing the NEBRL and the Baker offerings etc.

My path for now and the near future is to concentrate on specific resources that interest me and are relative to my area of interest; the spread of the Gospel in the early church. I'll also take advantage of my free book of the month until Now expires. I'll evaluate L8 and future versions as they come along and purchase as funds and need dictate. From here on out I'm in "own it mode".

Since the announcement last week, I have downloaded, installed and taken a serious look at Accordance, Pocket Bible and eSword. My conclusions on them are

  • not as feature rich as Logos
  • cheaper on lots of resources
  • I have too many Logos resources that I would have to replace
  • I would have a steep learning curve.

Final thoughts: I'm a happy and loyal (20+ years) Logos customer and that won't change. 

Posts 2
cshover8669 | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 26 2018 10:36 AM

Bob, Ok I get it. Subscription services are the new thing.  I am seeing it everywhere and it is a good way to keep all the content updated and keeps down IT costs dealing with people that have issues because they didn't upgrade 5 upgrades ago. I wasn't happy with the change. I subscribed to LOGOS now to get the new features in advance and, I did like the free book every month as well. I did not use it for the Web app or any of that because the web app was no where near robust enough for what I do with the software on a regular basis. I am dealing with this change in model with another software I use all the time where the owners are not updating the legacy software because they are trying to cater to all they customers with a web app that isn't there yet. I also hate shelling out the large yearly subscription fee on this stuff every year. First it was office, then my recipe software, now faithlife and Logos. But, I do understand. I have not been buying nearly as many books as I have in the past simply because I do not currently have large funds to further invest in my library, and a lot of the resources available do not fit, my conservative, theology.

So, I just have one more question.  It is unlikely that if LOGOS 8 comes out before the middle of next year, that I will be able to upgrade, at least right away. So, I used the coupon to get the feature set and lock those in, but here is the question, since I will lose my LOGOS NOW subscription and may not be able to upgrade to LOGOS 8 right away, will I lose access to those features until if / or when I either choose to upgrade to LOGOS 8 or pay the higher subscription price?

Just wondering.... will there be a discounted way to obtain those features when LOGOS 8 comes out without having to spend over $200 to upgrade my base package?

Thanks, Carla

Posts 321
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 26 2018 10:53 AM

On the positive side I can appreciate the feedback and "justification" for switching from one product line to another...related to profitability.  I can also appreciate ownership expressing their editorial view on how the product will change for the better in the future.  Yet I recall numerous times that FL and its products is a business and is in the market for profit.  What strikes me is how in the lengthy sharing by ownership is how any of this is either my problem or my concern...it's the free market at work.  Another way of saying it is when a business screws up it's their problem...grow to fast...offer meaningless product lines...lose money...forcing endless software gimmicks on customers who may not enjoy them...just the way it rolls in business.  In the end, FL live or die, it just doesn't matter to me since I use other true bible software for my needs.  The only thing I would miss if FL disappears due to business mistakes will be the minor monetary investment ($1800.00 or so over 20 years) in Logos.  It's just business.

Posts 320
Andrew Biddinger | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 26 2018 1:41 PM

Good explanation! The new Faithlife Connect cloud service will work well for those who need the software for a short period of time, those who want a cheap up-front software, or those who will be long life costumers and are used to having cloud subscriptions. 

With this next generation that loves changes and getting new software updates, it makes perfect sense! Subscription based payments are the best way to pay for changing software. I am still a little old school (millennial) , so I like to own my stuff, but I do think it meets the needs of another audience. 

Thanks for the explanation! Keep up the good work.

Posts 12
Brenden Bridges | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 26 2018 2:37 PM
This is my fear too!! Now, I’m reconsidering making more investments in logos... yikes this is a curve ball😐
Posts 205
Marshall Harrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 26 2018 3:25 PM

Brenden Bridges:
This is my fear too!! Now, I’m reconsidering making more investments in logos... yikes this is a curve ball😐

Just do what I'm doing. Go strictly purchase and no more subscriptions which could change on you.

Posts 86
William Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 26 2018 4:00 PM

Hi Bob,

Here is a thought for FL to consider for those who signup for FL Connect at any subscription level.

Give a dollar for dollar credit for each month they are signed up for FL Connect to be used towards purchases to own such as new resources or feature set upgrades. It would basically be like paying in advance for purchases and building a credit to be used anytime desired. It couldn't be used towards subscriptions or anything considered rental in nature.

This would give incentive for purchasing to own while at the same time helping those not inclined to subscribe to get on board since this would in effect help in keeping up with feature set upgrades for each successive release.  This would offer value to those who currently see no value in FL Connect vs. purchasing feature set upgrades only.

Doing something like this might put subscriptions over the threshold where FL would be sitting on a nice revenue stream while incentivizing purchases at the same time. Anything purchased above and beyond the credits would be a win for FL in my opinion.

Just another thought to help us all.

Thanks again for listening,

William

Posts 20
Sojourner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 26 2018 7:20 PM

William Walker:
Doing something like this might put subscriptions over the threshold where FL would be sitting on a nice revenue stream while incentivizing purchases at the same time. Anything purchased above and beyond the credits would be a win for FL in my opinion.

I hope they hear you on this. My biggest concern is that the current subscription plan discourages purchases of the Standard library and discourages those with the Standard library from joining FC. They should to be finding ways to encourage all purchases. I'm holding out that when Logos 8 launches the new libraries will include something unique for the subscription.

Posts 2304
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 27 2018 2:32 PM

Chris duMond:

Beloved:
The representative informed me that Verbum Now will be transitioned to FLC

Hi Beloved, I'm sorry you were given incorrect information. Verbum Now is not being transitioned into Faithlife Connect, nor do we have any current plans of doing that. I've asked our Customer Service Manager to reach out to you and help you get into Verbum Now, and to inform the rest of the Customer Service team that Verbum Now is an option for customers. Thanks.

I was told by CS that there is no way to do what I want. FYI, I will have to call back when my subscription expires to replace with Verbum Now. 

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 9075
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 27 2018 3:53 PM

cshover8669:
Just wondering.... will there be a discounted way to obtain those features when LOGOS 8 comes out without having to spend over $200 to upgrade my base package?

Carla,

What I would do is wait to buy the features until Logos 8 is released. (You can call Customer Service and ask to return them). You will have your credit to use when Logos' pricing will be their best - at the release of the new software. Many of us think this will be in October or November of this year.

You are a Logos Now subscriber. You will have access to all the features until November regardless of when your renewal date is. There is therefore no need to buy the feature set now.

You never have to pay to upgrade the software. So you should be able to buy the feature set when Logos 8 comes out using your credit. Should you want to buy an upgraded library, that will cost extra.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 205
Jeffrey S. Robison | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 27 2018 3:58 PM

Just read through this thread. Some of it I skimmed. But that is over 3 hours I am not getting back.

I have been watching other software companies go subscription only and at the enterprise level only. As a pastor I have four basic needs out of my electronics: Bible study, word processing, time/project management, and communication.   

I went through a lot of Bible study software. Seedmaster, BibleWorks, NavPress, Zondervan, Ages, E4 Group, Accordance, Olive Tree, Quick Verse, WordSearch, and Logos. I chased features. I have by far have the largest investment in Logos in comparison to the others.

The time/project management software (will remain unnamed here) that I used for 9 years just went subscription based. I received a polite email. When I logged in to buy a subscription… there was not one. Everything was enterprise level. NO offering for a small business user base. Definitely no personal price offering. Needless to say I was upset. The CEO did not respond to my questions. There was no transition period. It was next month will cost you $$$$ every month to do what you have been doing for the last nine years because you purchased our software. Not to mention that the software auto-updated and immediately became unusable.

Bob, thank you. You have always responded personally to any question I have asked.

I remember in 1996, no one in the church I served used Bible software except me and one other staff member. We were Bible study nerds. We were like so many here, the early adopters, who have large resource libraries built over the years.

Our Bible software is very personal to us.

We freak out when changes take place. Freak out like someone just set our office and all our dead tree editions on fire.

Even 15 years ago, it was primarily just us Bible study nerds. Now I see different kinds of Bible software users. There are the scholars/academics. There are the preachers (not that the first group does not preach). There are church leaders/teachers. There are the devotional users. There are those who use mobile apps instead of print bibles in our pews.

I have watched Logos/FaithLife spanning that market. I have also watched Bob lead the company to reach out to the church visible like no other Christian company. Logos/Verbum Software has crossed denominational barriers to cater to our personal theological bents for the good of the Bride of Christ as a whole.

I remember loading Logos with a box full of floppy disks, then CD, then DVD, then download (that used to take days and days). But for over two decades, Logos has never denied me access to a single resource that I have purchased. They honored every serial number and converted them to the online licenses. They have even updated the older ones to work with the new engines for free. They store my documents and notes with my licenses at no extra to charge to me. I don't even have to remember my password because a human will answer the phone and reset it for me.

I am not sure how all of the new subscriptions will work. I am sure that L8 will be awesome.

I am also sure of this:

Bob Pritchett will admit the company’s failures, market misreads, and do everything that he can to provide products and services that are for the good of the church visible. And Bob Pritchett will keep his word. He has to me for over two decades.

My office is not on fire. My resources are safe. And thank you Faithlife for the $$$’s coupon head start on whatever is next.

And if you have read this long post, according to the Sermon Editor, that is 5 minutes you are not getting back.

Posts 781
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 27 2018 4:25 PM

Jeffrey S. Robison:
at the enterprise level

Jeff, what does this mean: U use it twice.  Thanks.

Posts 267
Roger Dittmar | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 27 2018 4:29 PM

Jeffrey S. Robison:
And if you have read this long post, according to the Sermon Editor, that is 5 minutes you are not getting back.

Yes Thanks for the post. I count it as a 5 minute positive investment:)

Posts 1048
William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 27 2018 5:50 PM

Jeffrey S. Robison:

And if you have read this long post, according to the Sermon Editor, that is 5 minutes you are not getting back.

Preach it. I appreciate your persperspective. Btw, I haven't looked at Sermon Editor yet since I've been happy with my workflow, but I had always heard the standard rate for preaching was 100 words per minute. Preached my first sermon and discovered my rate was 150 words per minute! Indifferent I've slowed down over the years, and totally appreciate everone'a grace as I learned. Anyway, it didn't take anywhere near 5 minutes to read your post, but I certainly spent more than 5 minutes using my phone to reply. Smile

Posts 1937
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 27 2018 7:25 PM

Jeffrey S. Robison:
Bob Pritchett will admit the company’s failures, market misreads, and do everything that he can to provide products and services that are for the good of the church visible.

Jeffrey, I enjoyed reading your post.  Thanks.

Posts 205
Jeffrey S. Robison | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 27 2018 8:29 PM

It means they are not interested single customers or even smaller businesses. They are targeting corporations or businesses that will have 100 users at the low end.

Posts 205
Jeffrey S. Robison | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 27 2018 8:30 PM

You are welcome.

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