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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 22 2018 8:48 AM

Jeff Horn:
access to the web-app without subscribing to cloud

LN used to be the only way to get access to the web app, but that changed a while ago. Now anyone can get access.

Posts 2
cbabc | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 22 2018 8:28 PM

If Logos Now is continuing in the form of Faithlife Connect (No Library), then why are there people on this thread deciding to transfer to Verbum Now? But thanks for making my point for me: navigating campaigns and hype for divergent products that are superfluous to anything I will ever need.
Do I need media packages? well, I would love the kind of media that helps me understand the Bible better; and, perhaps, lots of it: but not that projector stuff. And, even if I did, there's Graceway, and Sharefaith, and both those companies make better stuff than the Faithlife media stuff. Do I need ebooks? well, yes: but there's already a company out there that does that: lot's of them, in fact. Do I need to distribute my sermons to shut-ins? well, there's sermonaudio (and sermon central, ...). Do I need Christian documentaries? well, it could be useful. But I could also pester my church into subscribing to RightNow Media if I actually had a need for that.

It is also disturbing to me that one of the in-house Ph.D. scholars-in-residence who produces Lexham imprints for Logos (like the interactive media and Lexham books included in ALL base packages) produced a documentary on aliens and demons. And, that Faithlife has decided to feature it on the new Faithlife Connect TV site. This makes me wonder if many of the resources I depend on in my Reformed Portfolio base package is on the level of 'God and Jesus are aliens' type scholarship. Considering that this is from a company that advertises 'premier' Bible software, this is HORRIFYING! It also makes me wonder if FL is so unable to see and produce quality, that they will make a product that is on the level of the National Inquirer rather than the New York Times. Since there seems to be a tendency to replace standard scholarly works with Lexham imprints, this causes me to loose very much confidence, not only in my own software package, but possibly anyone who regarly uses these resources. Is the Dictionary of Bible Themes such a product with a National Inquirer level of accuracy? If so, that could have eternal consequences.

So, yea, it might be like being grandfathered into a LN++ type of product. But wouldn't a LN++ type product be focused on LOGOS users (not TV, VYRSO, PROCLAIM, CLOUD, GROUPS or the FSB, BUT LOGOS)? Woudln't the point be to invest in LOGOS?

But, my point isn't that I feel left behind. My point is not that I am confused. My point is that it is two different animanls. It is two different animals, where, every time one of these animals pop up, Faithlife has to develop a new vision, marketing campaing, training campaign, programming, and find the people who need it. But, those people are usually going to be Logos costumers who need Advanced (premier?) Bible study software.

My church uses facebook to connect with people: so, I can see a use for a social network (I probably won't use it, though) that isn't an advertising platform. Or, maybe, one where prayers and Bible study are able to be well integrated into the service (that could be great for a church prayer ministry!). But do I really want my BIBLE STUDY SOFTWARE company to spend money and time on investing in that kind of platform, and then spend more time and money advertising on how it can be employed as a general, but half-baked, tool for church management? Do I want to roll it out in my church, when doing so also means that my BIBLE STUDY SOFTWARE company is, perhaps, not advertising the answer to your prayer(tm) to anyone stupid enough to post [personal] prayer requests on social media; but, instead, is advertising half-baked, half-functioning Bible Study cloud software to my church because Bible study is Quick and Easy(tm) with that cloud app we still can't get just quite right, because we're spending too much money putting our own Facebook together? Where will this end. Will FL have its own, in house, market to buy comments, likes and views? Maybe I can one day post something on my Faithlife page (Again, I would probably use blogspot, ... if I needed a blog) and pay to have some number of people 'amen' or 'I'm Prayin'' it. But, all this ... from the producers of PREMIER BIBLE STUDY SOFTWARE!?

Marketing, and advertising, and business costs are real. And they mean that a company can only do so much. If that company wants to produce 12 different products, well, then, they often have to commit R&D, and programmer time, and marketing research, and training their sales people, and writing up informational stuffs, and other significant investments in time and money and other resources to EACH product. Faithlife can't decide that they will focus on Logos and then Proclaim is going to take care of itself. Nor will the campaign for the next Quick and Easy(tm), Awesome(R) feature for a faithlife product just materialize without effort. They have to have very significant investments to the development, research, and marketing of EACH. The Sermon Editor will neither write itself, debug itself, market itself, or even upgrade or improve itself!

A company can't wake up in the morning, decide it's going to be the leading Bible software producer in America, and then sell movies.  If a company decided that they want to produce books about the Bible, movies, podcasts, (and a dating website? ... really? wow, that's dumb.) then that company has left the Bible software market almost entirely.  It may be the leading Christian content distributor (for now), but there is a NECCESSARY adjustment to the commitment to produce software. So, it can produce the most content, and mediocre software; it can corner the market, so that you're not a Christian without it: but the best Bible software will always be somewhere else.  In order to be the leading (premier?) Bible software producer, it is neccessary to have a commitment to developing, innovating, and improving content and tools to make that program more useful to both old and new users.

Someone said that Mr. Pritchett (forgive me if I mis-spelled his name) is a fan of Jeff Bezos. Well, Amazon has the monies in reserve of a small nation, and operates with a very thin profit margin. But they can do that, because they are also large enough to keep the Post Office going. I doubt that Faithlife has that kind of money, manpower, or even costumer base.   And the fact is, however many books I buy from Amazon, they only care about the sell: they don't care about whether I get any benefit out of it or not. Even if I buy something I hate, it's no skin off their back whether I ever look at it again. Or even, if I think a physical kindle is one of those odd-looking ephone-ey thingies!

And programming is a difficult job. You don't just look at a computer and tell it to, "instantiate this data-structure template class for any number of instances of various types, that implement interface i." It requires coding, testing, debugging, alpha-testing, beta-testing,... writing Library code, controller code, model code, building a GUI, and making those pretty little pictures we call icons. It is very time-consuming. Faithlife is not Google. They are not Apple. They are not Microsoft. They don't have all the information in the world(tm) stored on their servers. They don't make their own hardware. They don't have endless developers lined up in giant departments to develop software that most people could never live without(R). They may be larger than I expect. But wouldn't it make sense, that in order to do something that will remain premier, they must focus on what they do? (I think someone complained about that, too).

Have you looked at the paper feature in Accordance 12? or the Dynamic Interlinear? Have you looked into the Instant Verse Study feature in Wordsearch? These are products that are developed by companies that focus on Bible Study, and they provide products that focus on Bible Study and Research, and making sure their products fit into the workflow of their costumers as seemlessly as possible. So all the features focus on Bible study and resarch, and doing it the way it is best. I don't have Accordance 12, But I wouldn't be surprised if the Paper feature is oodles more useful to my workflow and sermon writing than the Sermon editor ever will be: I don't have proclaim. If I did, it would suddenly become the absolute best tool for building quick and easy(tm) messages for proclaim. So the end-result is a product that is well-focused and consistent, without plugs for other products that company makes (Paper focuses very closely on the needs of what an Accordance user has in STUDYING the BIBLE, because there is no Accordance Proclaim. Proclaim may be a very good product (and perhaps it is); it may even be the best out there (it's not. . .), or the most affordable (again, . . .)), but (1) I am investing in a "premier" product that is supposed to make MY workflow easier, not Faithlife's, or that which Faithlife hopes I buy into (sorry:subscribe) to do quick and easy(tm) work on largely half-baked stuff; and (2) Even if I could get FC for free, it's not something that helps me use LOGOS Better, or STUDY MY BIBLE better. It is a range of products that one can easily find elsewhere, usually better.

The point is that Logos prides itself on being premier Bible study software. Not a decent, professional-grade Bible study software that can interact with its own, in-house, facebook; or its own, in-house Netflix; or its own, in-house, PowerPoint; or, even, its own, in-house iBooks: but a premiere Bible study program that MAKES THE PASTOR'S WORKFLOW EASIER. Will a premiere product come from an unfocused company, and where my investment in this product seems to very heavily imply that I must buy (I'm sorry: subscribe) into a largely superfluous FL World? How does that largely superfluous FL world help to develop PREMIER (not decent; not half-baked, but with lots of promise and potential) Bible study software?

Or, better, do I need to move to use competing products in order to have the kind of features, stability, and performance that would come from a company that DOES produce premiere software? I would expect that it is better to produce the software that anyone knows is the best, so that much of the marketing comes from the product's reputation. I would expect that a better corporate environment would be focused on handling costumer needs, rather than pushing sales and subscriptions. And, I would also expect that a company that wants to maintain good relations with its costumers would pay VERY close attention to communication. I may have purchased my base package recently, but I have followed many of these development since L4. And, well, Faithlife lacks focus. And clarity. And that lack costs me features, speed, polish, resources, and possibly even innovation, training, and developer time and resources in order to pursue that next BIG feature, to bring that next BIG hype; or the next faithlife product that hardly anyone knows about, or even cares.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 23 2018 8:01 AM

Junker Jorge:
If Logos Now is continuing in the form of Faithlife Connect (No Library), then why are there people on this thread deciding to transfer to Verbum Now?

They are not! You aren't reading the thread in context. Check the dates! 

I see that you are new to the forum. Welcome! Smile One suggestion: I would try to keep your posts short & concise, else your posts will fall to the TL;DR (Too Long; Didn't Read) syndrome. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 40
nl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 24 2018 1:03 PM

Hi, 

With the Logos Now Membership and the free book each month, I started to collect the J. C. Ryle Expository on the Gospels, I Got 2/4 books on John, now with the switch over to Faithlife Connect, will all the same books be available to choose from so I can get the rest of the set?

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 24 2018 1:20 PM

Nathan Leskinen:
With the Logos Now Membership and the free book each month, I started to collect the J. C. Ryle Expository on the Gospels, I Got 2/4 books on John, now with the switch over to Faithlife Connect, will all the same books be available to choose from so I can get the rest of the set?

Hi Nathan,

yes, the free classic books under FLC are the same as under LNow.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 1943
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 26 2018 5:59 PM

JT (alabama24):

Junker Jorge:
If Logos Now is continuing in the form of Faithlife Connect (No Library), then why are there people on this thread deciding to transfer to Verbum Now?

They are not! You aren't reading the thread in context. Check the dates! 

I see that you are new to the forum. Welcome! Smile One suggestion: I would try to keep your posts short & concise, else your posts will fall to the TL;DR (Too Long; Didn't Read) syndrome. 

He was probably seeing if he could out-word me. :-)

By the way, I still have intentions to post back some feedback about future Logos upgrades. Work has been keeping me swamped lately with some major projects, but when I get a chance to come up for air, I'll post it. It'll likely be a WTL;DR post though. :-)

Nathan Parker

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 26 2018 6:20 PM
I'll be sure to read that one Nathan Smile

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Posts 144
Josiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 8 2018 6:00 AM

This change is welcome by me, personally.  I am not opposed to a subscription model, but it seems unlikely the resources I am interested in will ever be available via one (at least for a long time).  It's one thing for a company to move to a subscription model, it's another thing to convince publishers to make their products "subscription" products instead of buy-to-own.

I prefer to have a small library of resources I know well and use frequently than a large library of duds and overlaps; and, like many, I'm most interested in commentaries, which will always be the "premium" resource.  As long as I can still buy these and use these (and am never in danger of losing them) I am happy.  Since the one thing that could hurt me most is Faithlife going out of business, I am happy your are doing whatever you need to stay afloat.

Personally I hide all videos and interactives.  They are completely useless to me.  Datasets and interlinears are great.  I also use collections and guides (my own custom passage guide).  That's my product usage.  So from my perspective, I would rather less money invested in flashy features and videos, but if that's what the new generation and new customers will pay for, then it still benefits me (indirectly).  I just hope you've read the market correctly and the investment doesn't turn into a loss.

Posts 41
Steven New | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 8 2018 9:35 PM

Josiah:  This is interesting to me.  I would think it would be easier to get publishers to accept a subscription model.  If they could figure out a way to do it like Apple music.  Whenever a resource is used a monthly report sent to the Faithlife will allow that publisher to get some money for each use.  Also, they could negotiate with Faithlife to allow the newest resources to only be subscription.  

I am upset because the Faithlife connect just doesn't seem like that good of a deal if you really only want to use Logos and build a great library of resources.  

Posts 1943
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 8 2018 10:00 PM

Steven New:

Josiah:  This is interesting to me.  I would think it would be easier to get publishers to accept a subscription model.  If they could figure out a way to do it like Apple music.  Whenever a resource is used a monthly report sent to the Faithlife will allow that publisher to get some money for each use.  Also, they could negotiate with Faithlife to allow the newest resources to only be subscription.  

I am upset because the Faithlife connect just doesn't seem like that good of a deal if you really only want to use Logos and build a great library of resources.  

I thought the same thing when it came to publishers. The only drawback to subscription models is while the royalties are ongoing vs one time, generally the royalty payments are far lower than the cost of direct-purchase or especially bundle items (as one who has a music album and have watched the royalty payments come in over sales vs subscriptions, subscriptions are a fraction of the payment over direct sales. However, more overall customers listen to my music over streaming vs direct payment so they can "take a chance" on me, so I wouldn't reach as many audiences nor would I overall see as my royalties without the subscription model).

The FL Connect Essential (No Resources) solution that Bob offered to grandfather LN customers into for $99/year is a good option for those wanting all the Logos features without the books (even the price for new customers seems overall reasonable). I get all the features of Logos and LN, plus some additional perks. Some of the perks I haven't had time to heavily use yet (such as streaming much on FL TV), but it's nice to have them if I need them, plus periodically I can leverage these additional perks to benefit my studies.

Nathan Parker

Posts 144
Josiah | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 9 2018 11:50 AM

Steven New:

Josiah:  This is interesting to me.  I would think it would be easier to get publishers to accept a subscription model.  If they could figure out a way to do it like Apple music.  Whenever a resource is used a monthly report sent to the Faithlife will allow that publisher to get some money for each use.  Also, they could negotiate with Faithlife to allow the newest resources to only be subscription.  

I guess we'll see.  I'm sure the NICNT/NICOT will be available there any day now.  And a bunch of Brill journals...

Honestly, I'm not an industry insider, but I don't think anyone in the music industry is rejoicing over this great era of Apple Music and Spotify, etc.  I think they would gladly take the next time machine to the 80s.  I don't really listen to music anymore, but I'm pretty sure most artists view such streaming avenues simply as advertising for their concerts.

I guess academic biblical studies writers could move in this direction, but I'd rather they get to stay with their families, and be able to spend time researching and writing instead of flying around the world just to read their journal articles out loud.

Steven New:

I am upset because the Faithlife connect just doesn't seem like that good of a deal if you really only want to use Logos and build a great library of resources.  

Hmm, maybe I'm misunderstanding something.  The way I read it I have no real reason to use Faithlife Connect, which is great, because now my monthly costs go down and I have more money for books.  Whereas before there was incentive to use Logos Now to access new features (for example: the discourse analysis tools are great for reading original Greek and they might have been Logos Now only (I can't remember)).  Since Faithlife Connect provides nothing I want, it seems an infinitely better system than Logos Now, which often seemed like a better option than purchasing a feature set to go with your library.

But here I might be confused.  Sometimes I read quickly and miss the finer details.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 9 2018 3:00 PM

Josiah:
I don't think anyone in the music industry is rejoicing over this great era of Apple Music and Spotify, etc.

Smaller labels might, especially if they end up being featured. 

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Posts 40
nl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 15 2018 8:09 PM

I'm still a bit confused about all of this.

What options do I have to keep my features set?

I won't be spending over $100 for subscription. I am happy with what I was given now, Faithlife Essentials, is this price changing in the future?

Posts 1943
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 15 2018 8:17 PM

Nathan Leskinen:

I'm still a bit confused about all of this.

What options do I have to keep my features set?

I won't be spending over $100 for subscription. I am happy with what I was given now, Faithlife Essentials, is this price changing in the future?

If you had Logos Now, you'll be migrated to a special version of Faithlife Essentials without the rental library (basically Logos Now plus all the other non-library features of Faithlife Essentials) for the same price you paid for Now ($99.99/year).

Nathan Parker

Posts 40
nl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 15 2018 8:19 PM

Oh ok, brilliant, happy with that.

Thanks!

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 15 2018 8:26 PM

Nathan Leskinen:

I'm still a bit confused about all of this.

What options do I have to keep my features set?

I won't be spending over $100 for subscription. I am happy with what I was given now, Faithlife Essentials, is this price changing in the future?

 A limited toolset is available for $8.99. To get access to the full toolset, you'll be spending 19.99 a month.  You do get a little more value for that money, including two free mobile courses per year (you pick from their complete library).  Plus two free ebooks and other benefits.  Compare the three pricing tiers and what they get.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 40
nl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 16 2018 2:59 PM

Friedrich:

Nathan Leskinen:

I'm still a bit confused about all of this.

What options do I have to keep my features set?

I won't be spending over $100 for subscription. I am happy with what I was given now, Faithlife Essentials, is this price changing in the future?

 A limited toolset is available for $8.99. To get access to the full toolset, you'll be spending 19.99 a month.  You do get a little more value for that money, including two free mobile courses per year (you pick from their complete library).  Plus two free ebooks and other benefits.  Compare the three pricing tiers and what they get.

Thanks, but I had the Logos Now membership before and am happy that I still get the $100 a year option for full feature set and will be staying on that.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 17 2018 6:24 AM

Nathan Leskinen:

Friedrich:

Nathan Leskinen:

I'm still a bit confused about all of this.

What options do I have to keep my features set?

I won't be spending over $100 for subscription. I am happy with what I was given now, Faithlife Essentials, is this price changing in the future?

 A limited toolset is available for $8.99. To get access to the full toolset, you'll be spending 19.99 a month.  You do get a little more value for that money, including two free mobile courses per year (you pick from their complete library).  Plus two free ebooks and other benefits.  Compare the three pricing tiers and what they get.

Thanks, but I had the Logos Now membership before and am happy that I still get the $100 a year option for full feature set and will be staying on that.

FYI, if you want to read Bob's original announcement about this (being grandfathered in and getting better deal), and haven't, it's here.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 44
Pastor Todd | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 16 2018 12:34 PM

I may have missed an email about this as well as others.  I used to pay $100 a year for Logos Cloud.  Not it's double the price?  What about a discount for those who had Logos cloud for 1 year so we can see the new features?

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 16 2018 2:08 PM

Hi Todd

If you look at the post above yours there is a link to finding out about the 'grandfathered' option to stay on at the same price.

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