Faithlife Connect - what's missing?

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Posts 1928
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Feb 22 2018 5:15 PM

Excitement.

Had time to study the Faithlife Connect deals tonight - I need to pay double to retain what I currently have and get some stuff that I am not interested in.

I get change and transition.  Change is not easy.  I'll make it work. It is not the end of the world and we have been to more than one Logos rodeo since Series X. Stick out tongue

I was starting to wonder if we were going to see the end of Logos Now. But what about creating a product that most of the current customer base of Logos Now is so excited that they can't stop talking about it with their friends and anyone that will listen?

This is a missed opportunity to launch a product that causes buzz and excitement in the Bible software world. 

I have a suspicion... my guess is that the strategy for Logos 8 is going to be intertwined intimately with Faithlife Connect.  So if I am right, start setting your expectations accordingly.  Fortunately if you are a Logos Now user you will get a coupon in this transition! Big Smile

Posts 2950
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 9:38 AM

Donovan R. Palmer:
Had time to study the Faithlife Connect deals tonight - I need to pay double to retain what I currently have and get some stuff that I am not interested in.

Yup.

Or you could consider switching to Verbum Now, to get almost exactly the same thing as Logos Now and for the same price. Unlike Logos Now, Verbum Now is sticking around.

Posts 468
Rodney Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 9:49 AM

I am confused..  What is  Verbum Now exactly?  And how would it give me what I have today with Logos now?

Posts 4823
doc | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 12:17 PM

Donovan R. Palmer:

Excitement.

Had time to study the Faithlife Connect deals tonight - I need to pay double to retain what I currently have and get some stuff that I am not interested in.

I get change and transition.  Change is not easy.  I'll make it work. It is not the end of the world and we have been to more than one Logos rodeo since Series X. Stick out tongue

I was starting to wonder if we were going to see the end of Logos Now. But what about creating a product that most of the current customer base of Logos Now is so excited that they can't stop talking about it with their friends and anyone that will listen?

This is a missed opportunity to launch a product that causes buzz and excitement in the Bible software world. 

I have a suspicion... my guess is that the strategy for Logos 8 is going to be intertwined intimately with Faithlife Connect.  So if I am right, start setting your expectations accordingly.  Fortunately if you are a Logos Now user you will get a coupon in this transition! Big Smile

What's missing is an appropriate pricing structure that takes into account for a number of users we already own what is being offered in Logos Cloud and so should not be getting charged for renting these books.

Posts 623
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 12:43 PM

Yes I agree with DOC. The books offered in Faithlife Connect are now identical with the standard base package libraries (Starter through Portfolio), but I don't get dynamic pricing for the books I already own. So instead of only paying to rent the books I don't own (which would be great b/c there are some books I would love access to but don't need to own), I get charged the same as someone who doesn't own any of the libraries at all.

Plus, is there going to be an Academic discount available for Faithlife Connect?

I would love to be able to have an affordable subscription service that accounts for what I already own, keeps my software up to date, and gives me access to mobile ed courses. I think a subscription model makes much more sense for mobile ed, so I think that's a good benefit of Faithlife Connect. I don't see the use of Faithlife TV unless you have kids. I don't even watch regular TV. The free Ebooks (formerly Vyrso) don't appeal to me since they're usually popular and not academic in nature. The monthly free preview resources are great sometimes but you have no control over what they offer. Sometimes the offerings aren't great, or you may already own them.

I wish they had different options for people with different needs, that's the point of a subscription service, to pay for access to what you need when you need it.

Posts 781
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 12:57 PM

Kiyah:
I think a subscription model makes much more sense for mobile ed,

For me, a layman, I use Mobile Ed as a jump off point into my books.  I see such courses as the spine to structure my studies thru the branches structured there from.

So...on Ur scenario, the course disappears one day.  But, I still need it.  Not too handy!!

Posts 623
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 1:09 PM

scooter:

Kiyah:
I think a subscription model makes much more sense for mobile ed,

For me, a layman, I use Mobile Ed as a jump off point into my books.  I see such courses as the spine to structure my studies thru the branches structured there from.

So...on Ur scenario, the course disappears one day.  But, I still need it.  Not too handy!!

Point taken, that makes sense. For me though, I go through the courses once and then never open them again. I want to move on to something new, so it doesn't make sense for me to buy them to own. I always want to learn new stuff, and there are some great courses they have that I'd love to go through but it's just not feasible for me to pay hundreds of dollars for each of them.

Posts 4823
doc | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 1:15 PM

scooter:

Kiyah:
I think a subscription model makes much more sense for mobile ed,

For me, a layman, I use Mobile Ed as a jump off point into my books.  I see such courses as the spine to structure my studies thru the branches structured there from.

So...on Ur scenario, the course disappears one day.  But, I still need it.  Not too handy!!

Same here Scooter, its great to get access to a course for short term but I normally like to go back to course multiple times as I won't pick up everything first time round, and what I learn from one course often enhances what i get out of another course when I have gone back to it a second time because I have greater exposure and perspective.  Mobile Ed is a great jumping point into my library and into studies on specific topics where I can pull up different courses that discuss the same topic / issue.

Posts 781
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 1:27 PM

Disciple of Christ (doc):

scooter:

Kiyah:
I think a subscription model makes much more sense for mobile ed,

For me, a layman, I use Mobile Ed as a jump off point into my books.  I see such courses as the spine to structure my studies thru the branches structured there from.

So...on Ur scenario, the course disappears one day.  But, I still need it.  Not too handy!!

Same here Scooter, its great to get access to a course for short term but I normally like to go back to course multiple times as I won't pick up everything first time round, and what I learn from one course often enhances what i get out of another course when I have gone back to it a second time because I have greater exposure and perspective.  Mobile Ed is a great jumping point into my library and into studies on specific topics where I can pull up different courses that discuss the same topic / issue.

Better than I said it; definitely all true.

What do U think of Connect, where the course disappears after 6 months?? Unsaid yet, is whether it is offered at a reasonable [or great!!] saving at course termination.

Posts 2950
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 23 2018 6:46 PM

Rodney Phillips:
I am confused..  What is  Verbum Now exactly?  And how would it give me what I have today with Logos now?

It's Faithlife's Catholic edition of Logos Now. It costs the same and provides almost exactly the same features and whatnot. I have it. It works just fine.

And it has the crucial advantage of continuing to exist.

Posts 391
Liam Maguire | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 7:03 AM

scooter:

What do U think of Connect, where the course disappears after 6 months?? Unsaid yet, is whether it is offered at a reasonable [or great!!] saving at course termination.

So that's what "Access 180 days" in the title of the MobEd course I downloaded meant. Cheeky, Faithlife! I don't remember this being part of the sales patter (either here on the forum or the FLC page). "One free course a year" is not the same as saying "6 months of free access to a MobEd course once per year". 

Ugh. 

Check out my blog 'For Fathers'

Posts 781
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 7:20 AM

LMAM:

scooter:

What do U think of Connect, where the course disappears after 6 months?? Unsaid yet, is whether it is offered at a reasonable [or great!!] saving at course termination.

So that's what "Access 180 days" in the title of the MobEd course I downloaded meant. Cheeky, Faithlife! I don't remember this being part of the sales patter (either here on the forum or the FLC page). "One free course a year" is not the same as saying "6 months of free access to a MobEd course once per year". 

Ugh. 

What is said or left for one to surmise in marketing materials needs 2b parsed very closely.  Sometimes we do not have time for that.  I have found in jobs I have had that an internal war exists between marketing and reality.

Posts 1129
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 7:34 AM

SineNomine:

Donovan R. Palmer:
Had time to study the Faithlife Connect deals tonight - I need to pay double to retain what I currently have and get some stuff that I am not interested in.

Yup.

Or you could consider switching to Verbum Now, to get almost exactly the same thing as Logos Now and for the same price. Unlike Logos Now, Verbum Now is sticking around.

SineNomine,

I hope you are correct, however Logos has NOT promised that Verbum Now will not end, they have only said "they currently do not have plans." In light of the fact that $8.99 according to Bob is NOT enough to cover the cost of software development and support, Verbum Now is not a sustainable product. I just wish Logos would offer a Features only subscription at a price that does cover the cost of software development and support and we could be done with all this drama! If the price ends up being $17.99 for example, perhaps some might consider Faithlife Connect a good deal, however some would rather save $2.00 a month. We all understand Logos having to make a profit, however we can't understand why we are being asked to purchase bloatware. The content providing industry is moving towards choice, not forced bundling. Bob and Faithlife are following the old cable TV model, not the new Netflix model.

Posts 623
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 8:35 AM

Keith Larson:

The content providing industry is moving towards choice, not forced bundling. Bob and Faithlife are following the old cable TV model, not the new Netflix model.

I agree wholeheartedly. Faithlife is going about this the wrong way.

Posts 2950
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:03 AM

Keith, Verbum Now has a significant advantage over Logos Now in terms of its vulnerability to being replaced by a Verbum-edition of Connect. And that advantage will take years to eliminate, even if Verbum were to start into it right now.

That advantage is incredibly simple. The extra materials required for 'Verbum Connect' just don't exist. There is no Verbum TV, and there is almost zero Catholic material in Faithlife TV. There are no Verbum Mobile Ed courses, at all. Etc. Faithlife's options are to keep Verbum Now, or to destroy it. Replacing it with an eqivalent to Faithlife Connect is impossible.

Do you see all the complaining about people having to rent resources and whatnot that they already own? Imagine the complaints if Catholic customers were forced to rent resources that they actively want to keep out of their libraries! Imagine numerous concerned Catholic priests, bishops, professors, teachers, and catechists switching from recommending Verbum to their parishioners and students to recommending against it! Imagine a return to all of the complaining on the forums of anti-Catholic discrimination from Catholic customers of Faithlife! Imagine the repercussions to Verbum's new relationship with the very influential St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology! Imagine the Verbum staff having to pretend there is a business case for this!

Verbum Now's not going anywhere for some time. And if Verbum Connect ever becomes first possible and then real, Verbum's staff won't forget the lessons now being learned from the launch of Faithlife Connect.

Posts 1129
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:04 AM

Another thing I can't understand is how in the world could Logos have thought Faithlife Connect would be an attractive product to existing Logos Now customers? Almost all of us own a Base Package so the Logos Cloud is worthless to us. What they should have done is announce that Logos Now would increase in price by X amount of dollars and be a Features only subscription at the end of your subscription. Then give Logos Now customers the option of transferring their subscription to Faithlife Connect.

As it stands now they have lost the good will and trust of 1.8% of their customer base and they have lost the subscription income Logos Now generated.

Moreover, I bet that 1.8% are customers who have stuck around and purchased products for more than a few months as it appears most Logos customers do. If we are such a small group, but we do support Logos by our purchases, would it be such a financial lose if they ONLY offered Logos Now to existing Logos Now customers. Lots of companies do that for existing customers.

Posts 1928
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:19 AM

Well this is an important point...

The DNA of Logos Now was focused on the software and there was a bonus of getting access to Faithlife TV, but it was not the main draw. The shift of Faithlife connect is to promote the whole ecosystem and really take the subscription concept to the next level. 

To swallow the pill of a subscription increase is one thing, but the shift in focus for courses, TV and ebooks, social networking, etc, as an integrated platform on one hand is cool, but a challenge to someone who wants to cut through all the clutter to just do Bible study and pay for not much else.

I keep another Bible software package on my computer. I can tell you that if I just want to study the Bible, there's something to be said for it's focus.  Sometimes it's focus is a weakness in that the library is not as broad and doing research is more limited, but the focus can be refreshing!

So... I took the TV for another spin this morning. It is interesting, but I just can't justify the price point. I just simply won't use it.  The courses are cool and good value, but I will have to see myself making them a priority in the precious time I have for study before I can justify it.  

As it stands today, come Logos 8 I will buy my resources and just be a transactional customer.  It's a shame, because I was willing to create cashflow in between versions through something like Logos Now, but it looks like it is all or nothing.  Embrace the whole ecosystem and pay for it, or be a transactional customer.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:23 AM

Keith Larson:
Another thing I can't understand is how in the world could Logos have thought Faithlife Connect would be an attractive product to existing Logos Now customers?

I think there is a variety of Logos Now customers. The subgroup of those who see value in the mobile.Ed courses, for example, will easily see the longterm-availability of courses one can choose (even the expensive ones, tought by world-class scholars) is so attractive that FC basically pays itself from this one perk alone. Others may look at it as the way to acquire the EEC commentary set over time. Those two things alone would make it attractive to many people and would in my opinion have lead to a number of existing Logos Now customers switching voluntarily to FC, if it was offered as a free choice.

The unfortunate move of migrating (most of) the existing Logos Now customer base into the half-baked Starter class of FC, which lead to the impression that something was taken away, imho has stifled a serious evaluation of the benefits of FC.   

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:30 AM

Donovan R. Palmer:
As it stands today, come Logos 8 I will buy my resources and just be a transactional customer.  It's a shame, because I was willing to create cashflow in between versions through something like Logos Now, but it looks like it is all or nothing.  Embrace the whole ecosystem and pay for it, or be a transactional customer.

You will not be alone in abandoning any monthly payment to FL. It will be interesting to know if Connect improves FL's cash flow.

Donovan R. Palmer:
To swallow the pill of a subscription increase is one thing, but the shift in focus for courses, TV and ebooks, social networking, etc, as an integrated platform on one hand is cool, but a challenge to someone who wants to cut through all the clutter to just do Bible study and pay for not much else.

Amen. Less clutter. More actual Bible study. I wonder how few of us there are?

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 781
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:43 AM

NB.Mick:
The unfortunate move of migrating (most of) the existing Logos Now customer base into the half-baked Starter class of FC, which lead to the impression that something was taken away, imho has stifled a serious evaluation of the benefits of FC.   

So true the ''half-baked.''  + I agree re why people are upset.  

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