I Simply Do Not Understand Anymore

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Posts 19
Ara Koliantz | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Feb 24 2018 6:42 AM

Logos vs. Faithlife vs. Verbum vs. Cloud based?  

What happened?  Going from $99 to $240 a year for the same thing.

I'm so lost.   This is simply bloatware now.  Paying for things I simply have no need for.

I have preemptively cancelled my subscription to Faithlife.  I can only assume that everyone who works for Faithlife has best intentions, but this has been an absolutely terrible rollout of software that now has more tiers than I can possibly count across way too many platforms.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 7:51 AM

Ara Koliantz:
What happened?

Thankful thread => Logos Now and Faithlife Connect: The Why explains rationale.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1084
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 7:57 AM

Ara Koliantz:
What happened? 

People will come in and try to explain it, but I'd suggest just ignoring it, at least for a while. This place is cloud cuckoo land right now.

 Logos Now Subscriber -- 22/2/2018

Posts 145
Ross Strader | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 8:13 AM

Ara Koliantz:

Logos vs. Faithlife vs. Verbum vs. Cloud based?  

What happened?  Going from $99 to $240 a year for the same thing.

Yes, this sums it up... what the FL employees on the forums jump in and then begin to say is that we actually get more - like Faithlife TV --- are you kidding me?? 

FL-TV -- Not only do I not want it or care about it... have you seen it? It is embarrassing. What in the heck is the software company leading the industry in Bible Software doing trying to enter the market of Amazon, Netflix, Hulu.... with a "Christian alternative"... 

Logos - do what your good at. You are Very Good at Bible Software!

You are not good at TV - you won't be - you don't have enough money to be good at that. 

You are not good at Presentation software - Proclaim is a mess - a terrible mess. I'll say it if nobody else will. 

Your Mobile ED is fine... there are lots of free/way cheaper options out there that are EQUALLY as good in scholarship and content - Bill Mounce is doing it... he is not the only one. Sure, your production level is higher quality - but not worth the money you charge for it. 

I fear you are abandoning the industry you created... where is the Faithlife Podcast? Turns out... podcast is something people actually listen to... 

You social media presence is not creative - it is sales... boring and irrelevant. 

Your Forum Page looks like a flea market with the 29 categories nobody cares about... seriously - nobody cares. 

Your Beta program has become nothing but incremental bug fixes for the past 6months... 

For what? To work on Faithlife TV... please tell us you will abandon this. -- No one cares. And here is the deal - if you do get good at TV... then the Bible Study Software is what will pay the price ... to the degree you succeed at TV - I predict the quality, innovation and excellence of the Bible Study Software will suffer. 

How about this... Sell Your Bible Study Software to another company... just sell it - let someone who cares about Bible Study Software buy it from you and then you can go compete with Amazon and Netflix and Online Universities and Microsoft Powerpoint... every other industry you are trying to dabble in. 

This is a screenshot that highlights the IRRELEVANCE of Faithlife TV -- begun in December of '15 - only 69 posts have been generated in about 30 months... 

MacBook Pro 15' Retina  •  2.7 GHz Intel Core i7  •  16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3  •  Version 10.10

Posts 334
Paul Strickert | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 8:21 AM

Do companies ever contract (rather than expand)?  Or is that anathema?  Just curious.

Posts 145
Dustin Pearson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:00 AM

Ross Strader:

Ara Koliantz:

Logos vs. Faithlife vs. Verbum vs. Cloud based?  

What happened?  Going from $99 to $240 a year for the same thing.

Yes, this sums it up... what the FL employees on the forums jump in and then begin to say is that we actually get more - like Faithlife TV --- are you kidding me?? 

FL-TV -- Not only do I not want it or care about it... have you seen it? It is embarrassing. What in the heck is the software company leading the industry in Bible Software doing trying to enter the market of Amazon, Netflix, Hulu.... with a "Christian alternative"... 

Logos - do what your good at. You are Very Good at Bible Software!

You are not good at TV - you won't be - you don't have enough money to be good at that. 

You are not good at Presentation software - Proclaim is a mess - a terrible mess. I'll say it if nobody else will. 

Your Mobile ED is fine... there are lots of free/way cheaper options out there that are EQUALLY as good in scholarship and content - Bill Mounce is doing it... he is not the only one. Sure, your production level is higher quality - but not worth the money you charge for it. 

I fear you are abandoning the industry you created... where is the Faithlife Podcast? Turns out... podcast is something people actually listen to... 

You social media presence is not creative - it is sales... boring and irrelevant. 

Your Forum Page looks like a flea market with the 29 categories nobody cares about... seriously - nobody cares. 

Your Beta program has become nothing but incremental bug fixes for the past 6months... 

For what? To work on Faithlife TV... please tell us you will abandon this. -- No one cares. And here is the deal - if you do get good at TV... then the Bible Study Software is what will pay the price ... to the degree you succeed at TV - I predict the quality, innovation and excellence of the Bible Study Software will suffer. 

How about this... Sell Your Bible Study Software to another company... just sell it - let someone who cares about Bible Study Software buy it from you and then you can go compete with Amazon and Netflix and Online Universities and Microsoft Powerpoint... every other industry you are trying to dabble in. 

This is a screenshot that highlights the IRRELEVANCE of Faithlife TV -- begun in December of '15 - only 69 posts have been generated in about 30 months... 

And this is the root of the problem, they have lost there way and it is not that LN wouldn't pay for upgrades and refinement to Logos, it won't also pay for everything else they want to do and isn't generating the revenue it needs. Hence why we are being screwed over and in order to keep our datasets and features we do want we have to pay to support their failed market spaces...

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:02 AM

Paul Strickert:
Do companies ever contract (rather than expand)?

All the time. Some contract to zero, but I doubt that's what you mean.

A couple of years ago FL cut a whole bunch of employees at once (employment contraction). GE has been shedding businesses left and right (product line contraction). I doubt most companies choose a path to be smaller unless it is to survive.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 145
Dustin Pearson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:14 AM

Mark Smith:

 I doubt most companies choose a path to be smaller unless it is to survive.

No entirely true...worked for GE for 15 years and was part of a business unit that it spun off and sold. The market at the time for that product line didn't meet their profit goals so they sold it off to focus elsewhere. Wasn't necessarily loosing money, but also wasn't making as much as they wanted. Also seen them sell off a parts just because they didn't want to go that direction.

GE made it share of mistakes and is working through those now, but going smaller is not always just about survival. Sometimes it is just a good business decision and is not only good for the original parent company but the new company can also find greater success...

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:15 AM

Ross Strader:
How about this... Sell Your Bible Study Software to another company... just sell it - let someone who cares about Bible Study Software buy it from you and then you can go compete with Amazon and Netflix and Online Universities and Microsoft Powerpoint... every other industry you are trying to dabble in. 

Ross, I respect your frankness and share most of your evaluations. If these other endeavors are making FL depend on the Bible study software for support, then that's where the problem lies, not in reduced spending on resources.

FL does care about Bible Study software. I am sure the largest budget and staffing are still in this area. They are improving or adding to the software all the time. 

Perhaps the long-ago decisions to give away the core engine and to offer free life-time support need to be reassessed. Perhaps they need at some point to say that the software itself is what they will rent (not the resources). That will make a lot of people unhappy, but I'd rather pay a monthly rental for what I use (the software) than for what I will not use (TV, Mobile Ed, their selection of resources).

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:23 AM

Dustin Pearson:
Sometimes it is just a good business decision

The bottom line is still the bottom line. GE isn't trying to get smaller. It is trying to make more profit and convince investors that its best years are still ahead of it. If it could have made more profit from the divisions it sold it would still own them. They have chosen to get smaller in product line so they can get bigger on the bottom line and improve their annual growth rate. If not, they are sure to lose even more of their investors. So I stand by my statement. GE wants to survive, not get smaller, and is making decisions on that instinct. 

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1928
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:24 AM

Mark Smith:
Perhaps the long-ago decisions to give away the core engine and to offer free life-time support need to be reassessed. Perhaps they need at some point to say that the software itself is what they will rent (not the resources). That will make a lot of people unhappy, but I'd rather pay a monthly rental for what I use (the software) than for what I will not use (TV, Mobile Ed, their selection of resources).

Violently agree! :) 

Posts 5247
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:32 AM

Mark Smith:
I doubt most companies choose a path to be smaller unless it is to survive.

We see plenty of examples of companies breaking up to flourish... Yes occasionally it is to get rid of the weak portion but it happens indeed a larger company (don't remember which one said it was planning on splitting into three in the US). Quite often a company can loose direction when it is being pulled to too many directions. Becoming smaller allows focus on what each is best at. To use a gardening analogy unless you dig some plants up and split the roots or bulbs and replant them you can get no real growth. Apple is a great example great at phones/tablets but well well designed I think innovation wise the success of the mobile market has lead to the Mac being sidelined...not completely ignored but not give the opportunity to be developed to its full potential. I am not arguing that we should have Apple Music, Apple Mobile, and Apple Computer just that under that option better computers might happen.. again the computer section might go under without the the 2 more profitable arms I don't know. Faithlife has made a name as a producer of top quality software... They should well be commended for the study works they have produced under Lexham. But trying to be all things to all Christians does feel like going off not only in a few too many directions but as pointed up in this forum causing the core software to suffer either by pushing things in a direction users are not wanting to go or offering us things we really don't want. It has come to the point I have seen several heavy Logos users announce their are leaving FL products to go to Accordance. I use both and have no intention of leaving FL... however if it moved to a more subscription and or web based service I can say FL would likely never see another penny from me. So far I have been content more or less with what FL offers, however I do understand how those who went the NOW route feel betrayed... that said I understand the move and the need to adjust pricing but I think for a lot of people the pricing was seen at the top of their comfort level. I will happily continue to use my computer/iOS apps only.

-dan

Posts 775
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:41 AM

Perhaps , instead of subscription, they should consider an à la carte offering of feature/data sets?  One would only purchase/rent the ones they truly want/need.

How blessed is the one whom Thou dost choose, and bring near to Thee(Psa 65:4a)

Posts 10040
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 9:43 AM

Dan Francis:

Mark Smith:
I doubt most companies choose a path to be smaller unless it is to survive.

however I do understand how those who went the NOW route feel betrayed... that said I understand the move and the need to adjust pricing but I think for a lot of people the pricing was seen at the top of their comfort level. I will happily continue to use my computer/iOS apps only.

-dan

Let’s remember the frustrated users are a small segment (Now) and if at a loss, are taking value from other Logosians.  When I get the big offers from A-Company and fondly remember the same from Logos, I doubt the market is dead.


Posts 1776
Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 10:47 AM

Ross Strader:

Logos - do what your good at. You are Very Good at Bible Software!

You are not good at TV - you won't be - you don't have enough money to be good at that. 

You are not good at Presentation software - Proclaim is a mess - a terrible mess. I'll say it if nobody else will. 

Your Mobile ED is fine... there are lots of free/way cheaper options out there that are EQUALLY as good in scholarship and content - Bill Mounce is doing it... he is not the only one. Sure, your production level is higher quality - but not worth the money you charge for it.

Yes

Logos needs to get back to just selling the software and books. 

I don´t need all the fluff, it just adds to the price of a base package with any real added value to me

What good is a Mobile Ed course that I will never use (it is not like it shows in a topical search) ? 

www.hombrereformado.org  Solo a Dios la Gloria   Apoyo

Posts 53
DanC | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 11:08 AM

Please do not sell the Bible software. Parsons did that years ago and it was a mess until Lifeway picked it up.

Posts 53
DanC | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 11:16 AM

I agree with Donovan. I have used Logos since 1.6 days. In order to keep Logos Bible Software functioning for years to come, I would not mind an affordable cloud-type service for $100 annually, if desired, while removing the free engine in the future. Free is good and Logos has been more than fair over the years, but perhaps, starting with Logos 8, they could come out and say that in order to survive financially in these hard times, in order to keep the company going so we can keep access to our books for years to come, we are going to start charging (like most other companies do) when newer versions are released. 

Posts 3165
Whyndell Gizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 11:33 AM

This situation is one reason I purchased the full feature set, even though i was a LN subscriber. I am now in the place to where if I drop Now/ Connect I still have the features available to me- I OWN THEM, NOT RENT THEM!!!

Its not like being LN has any new tech advantage any longer you just get some old books, which are no big deal, the most valuable feature has been the preview resources, though the pricing has kept out of the buy column.

I see the day coming when they announce L8 there will be a whole lot of unhappy customers- so get ready, meditate on it, burn incense and sit with your legs crossed so you'll be prepared.

Posts 145
Dustin Pearson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 11:43 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:

This situation is one reason I purchased the full feature set, even though i was a LN subscriber. I am now in the place to where if I drop Now/ Connect I still have the features available to me- I OWN THEM, NOT RENT THEM!!!

Not entirely true...Lemma In Passage being one example...

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 24 2018 12:05 PM
Mark Smith:
Perhaps the long-ago decisions to give away the core engine and to offer free life-time support need to be reassessed. Perhaps they need at some point to say that the software itself is what they will rent (not the resources). That will make a lot of people unhappy, but I'd rather pay a monthly rental for what I use (the software) than for what I will not use (TV, Mobile Ed, their selection of resources).
So if tomorrow they said: Faithlife Connect is Free, but you have to pay $19.99/mo to use the software... you'd be happy?

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