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Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Feb 28 2018 12:21 PM

I've been pretty vocal about my dislike of the change to connect.

1. Paying for resources I already have (should I go with connect).
2. Paying for other things I can't/wont use (eg tv).
3. On an already squeaky budget, double the price.

all of this together felt like a punishment. Especially being forced to pay double to maintain similar functionality.

Any way, I'm slowly coming around. I found out that I can stream Faithlife TV to my computer (I don't have a TV at this point in my life). I signed up for the trial (ultimate, might as well right?), which led me to the mobile Ed courses. I've seen a few of these in the past when they were included in base packages. Those were kind of basic. But the two that I picked up as part of the trial were quite good. ~1200$ or so in education certainly adds value and causes me to re-think the math a little bit.

If I (not sure I can) can see the extra resources as extra resources, and forget about the part where I'm paying twice for some things then maybe I'll fully be on board with it. For now I'm happy for the two week trial (no coupon for me - probably because my subscription had lapsed, though it galls when people say the coupons went out to the "best" or "most valued" customers as I've spent more at logos than I did on my home and vehicle combined), and 180 days of access to those two courses.

Maybe it could have been communicated better. Maybe it shouldn't have been pitched as Logos now "improved".

I think that my biggest remaining complaint is still paying twice for resources. Dynamic pricing is the norm across the logos experience. If its a matter of contract, perhaps a rebate, or gift card/credit on a years purchase of connect, reflective of the tier of product and number of books... If ultimate gives you 2000 books (or however many), and you have 1000 of them. If those 2000 books, represent 80$ of the annual connect package you bought, then a 40$ credit/gift card/rebate might be a simple way to go about it. some kind of tiered equivalency... 0-25% (25% rebate), 25-50% (50% rebate) - and so forth. if someone owns all the titles you are trying to rent to them, then they shouldn't have to pay for the rented books but since they do, they should get a refund for that portion of connect. Even if you don't explain the tiers to us, and just say "because of your library, you qualify for an xx$ rebate/discount coupon/whatever".

I've heard there are sometimes secret perks sent out to certain categories of customer. To my knowledge those secrets didn't become public during their useable windows. Perhaps a similar "thank you for your purchase" "keep this to your self" "we can't directly do dynamic pricing yet, but here's xx$ as a rebate for what you already owned".

Lastly I saw a post that said people had decided their libraries are big enough, and just bought features.

I don't think that answer is fully representative. My purchases were more driven (or more appropriately not driven) by the amount of cash I had on hand (or lack thereof). If there was something I felt like I needed I spent for it. Otherwise I didn't. Before I was able to buy things I wanted, but didn't necessarily need. Something I can't do any more.

I dunno. I don't hate it. But I'm not thrilled by it either. I am warming to it though, slowly coming around. Fixing dynamic pricing would probably result in a purchase at the end of my trial period (march sometime). Otherwise we shall see.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 12:41 PM

also, I don't know that netflix or services like that are a fair comparison.

For one a movie might have a budget of 100m$. My roommate was a published author. I saw his 11 cent checks. I know it doesn't cost that much to produce and promote a book; lets say most books.

Yet netflix gives everyone access to those same (much pricier in general) titles at a fraction of the cost of connect ultimate (which doesn't give one access to all of Logos titles).

You might say there are fewer logos users than netflix subscribers and you'd be right. Which is another reason they are not 1:1 comparable.

Next: I will not subscribe to netflix. I'd sooner spend that 10-20$ a month (or whatever it is right now) on books here. As an unmarried pastor I don't see the same level of value in netflix that I see in Logos, or books in general.

For what its worth I now have in my library - across books in all forms (paper, logos, kindle, pdf, .doc, whatever) - more than 35000 titles. Some of those are handouts from class. Many are free sermons individually downloaded from the preachers website. All in All in terms of books I've bought, far and away Logos is my prefered source (15k), followed by calibre (11k), Print (5k) and Kindle (4k). Outside of free books. Logos is the only place I've spent any money at all on books this past year.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 2305
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 12:43 PM

abondservant:
I'm slowly coming around.

This reflects my sentiments as well. Might as well utilize the perks you find useful than remaining infuriated and paralyzed with anger by the changes. 

abondservant:
which led me to the mobile Ed courses. I've seen a few of these in the past when they were included in base packages. Those were kind of basic. But the two that I picked up as part of the trial were quite good. ~1200$ or so in education certainly adds value

Here again, I agree. But, I just want to make sure it is clear that FLC Starter offers one course per year for 6 mos review. I posted a course that I felt offered the best value here http://community.logos.com/forums/p/160691/958814.aspx#958814 

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 3232
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 1:06 PM

Yep I agree.  At first I wasn't pleased as well but I'm slowly coming around on it.  I don't know if I'll renew in 2019 as it is too early but we will see how this goes.  I'm not one for renting anything so this whole cloud thing is my biggest issue.  Books coming in and out and the indexing is just not fun.  On top of that, most of the books I do get with essentials I already have so I'm not gaining anything on that end.  After that, the updates that were coming with LN really weren't things that I used or needed (soooo many datasets).  I'm hoping updates in the future contain interactives, books or other neat things.

In the end, I mostly used LN for FLTV and the discounts.  If those keep coming and make the membership worth it I'll stay

Posts 1129
Keith Larson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 1:18 PM

I am kind of glad all this has happened. I has made me realize I don’t need any more new books. At this point the one thing I have valued the most is the timely upgrades. I don’t want to go back to waiting every two years. So for me the solution is simple—drastically cut back on Logos purchases. The difference in price in Logos Now and Faithlife Connect is $110 per year. Friday I canceled over $1100 in Pre-Pubs. This alone pays for 10 years of getting timely feature upgrades—the thing we all loved about Logos Now.

I have also come to accept where the future will be—the Subscription Model. Logos is a long way from becoming an Apple Music, but they will get there within 5 to 10 years. Looking back the mp3 purchases I made 5 years ago were a waste of money. The sooner I stop purchasing books the better. So thanks to Faithlife Connect I will be saving hundreds of dollars per year!

The best thing about all this, is by not purchasing books, Logos will be better off financially! I still can’t figure out how $199 per year is better for Logos than $89 per year plus hundreds of dollars of book purchases, but according to Bob it is!

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 1:42 PM

I pay 5$/month (as a student) for apple music.

IF Logos ever gets to the point where a 5$ subscription gives me access to everything I will gladly pay it.

My monthly payment has been over 400/mo in the past. 5$ would be much preferred.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 27675
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 1:47 PM

Keith Larson:
I still can’t figure out how $199 per year is better for Logos than $89 per year plus hundreds of dollars of book purchases, but according to Bob it is!

I dont think that is what was meant. Rather, there are different kinds of customers. From FL's perspective, LN worked well for them financially for SOME users, but not for all. For example: Users who owned NO features received access to $800 worth of features for the same $9/mo that someone who owned $600/800. For one, it was a steal of a deal, for the other it was simply a less expensive means upfront, but perhaps a wash over two years. The other benefits were needed to make it worthwhile. 

Bob has said that his team is working on a response in the near future. I expect he will address many of these topics. 

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Posts 2305
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 2:05 PM

Keith Larson:
I have also come to accept where the future will be—the Subscription Model.

This is only partially true. The lions share of FL's revenue come from resource sales. This and will remain for the foreseeable future true. What I think Bob was trying to convey was that at the present and going forward there was a considerable reduction in the amount of resources bought by seasoned customers this has resulted in pressures to develop a more balanced approach to the rental model. Keep in mind that only 1.8% of users bought into LN the pricing was unsustainable and a new normal has resulted. But, I don't think Bob wants to discourage the ownership model as it is the real core of revenues as far as I understand.

I am having to reconsider whether I want to own or will I rent the features, this is the dichotomy that we all must answer for ourselves. My library encourages me to spend less and look very carefully for value. 

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 555
John Kaess | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 2:54 PM

I've been on Logos Now for almost 2 years, mostly to get the features and the discounts. I make the final payment on my payment plan in March.

Here's my history: I've been using Logos since 2.0g back in the 90's. I bought scholars silver and then gold back in the day, then some package in Libronix, and Gold in Logos 4, Platinum in Logos 5, Gold in Logos 6 and 7. I've also bought a number of sets, series, bundles, etc over the years. I sunscribed to Logos Now when Logos 7 came out for the discount on the Gold package and to save the expense of the feature sets. I have a pretty substantial library, and really do not see many things which are likely to be in a new package when Logos 8 comes out.

Now that my payment plans are complete, i've decided i'm most likely just going to add specific resources which i have a need for. I have a number of Mobile Ed courses and for every single course i need to purchase a number of resources in order to make effective use of the course.

So, my plans moving forward is to let my Logos Now expire. I've used my coupon to purchase the extended feature set for Logos 7. I will not subscribe to anything else, and i'll use the funds i had been paying on my payment plan to purchase resources i actually have a need for to fill in the missing resources for the mobile ed courses i already own, and occasionally take advantage of a sale for something i actually need. I may buy a feature set when logos 8 comes out, but i do not forsee buying any more packages. I'd be surprised if there were not others in the same basic position that i am.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 3:12 PM

I think the subscription will probably pay for itself, considering some of the benefits (access to Mobile Ed courses; free Lexham Press books).

I don't know if I can afford not to subscribe, but I don't know if I can afford to subscribe, either, considering my financial state.

Posts 10177
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 3:57 PM

Keith Larson:

I have also come to accept where the future will be—the Subscription Model. 

Well, Ok! With any luck, and twice the price, 5% of revenues maybe? That leaves 95% on something else. 

Your book purchasing seems odd (to me). I buy, wanting the book(s). And being a non-Now'er and non-packager, my book fund hasn't withered away.

Actually, my reduced purchasing has been from the absence of good deals that Logos used to have. I really hate the weekly A-Company adverts. They seem so unfair.


Posts 1103
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 3:58 PM

abondservant:
I've been pretty vocal about my dislike of the change to connect.

1. Paying for resources I already have (should I go with connect).
2. Paying for other things I can't/wont use (eg tv).
3. On an already squeaky budget, double the price.

all of this together felt like a punishment. Especially being forced to pay double to maintain similar functionality.

I'm not coming around. I feel the same about these points, and nothing has changed.

A price increase of 140% is never going to go down well for anything. I don't see how it being for Bible software should just make us stop and say, "How wonderful!" like some people (not you) seem to be expecting.

The unchanging fact is that until Feb. 22, I had an affordable means of keeping the software up to date with a few nice other benefits. "Now" I don't. While I do appreciate the compensatory free feature set--really, I do--this move have left me much less enthused about Logos, and I will be curtailing my spending rather than trying to keep up with it anymore.

Posts 1341
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 4:18 PM

Hi all,

Where do I find the coupon codes for the M.Ed and ebooks (Classics and Originals) that's part of my FLC subscription?

Peter

Posts 20
Sojourner | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 4:40 PM

PL:

Hi all,

Where do I find the coupon codes for the M.Ed and ebooks (Classics and Originals) that's part of my FLC subscription?

Peter

You can find them here: https://connect.faithlife.com/get-started

Posts 27675
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 4:45 PM

PL:
Where do I find the coupon codes for the M.Ed and ebooks (Classics and Originals) that's part of my FLC subscription?

Does this help?

  1. https://connect.faithlife.com/get-started 
  2. On "claim your benefits," choose the FL Connect level that you have.
  3. Scroll to either the "Get 1 Faithlife Original" or "Get 1 Faithlife Classic" section.
  4. Click the "copy" button for the coupon code. 
  5. Click "browse titles" button to be taken to the appropriate https://ebooks.faithlife.com link
  6. Add a chosen book to your cart.
  7. Enter the code by pasting it in. 
  8. The price should move to "$0.00"

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Posts 1341
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 6:22 PM

Thanks JT... 

I'm at FLC Starter level. Under "Books," I only have "Featured Book of the Month" section. I do not have "Get 1 Faithlife Original" or "Get 1 Faithlife Classic."

However, if I change the level to Essentials, I do see those two coupons... is it "safe" to use another level's coupon codes?

Thanks,

Peter

Posts 27675
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 6:27 PM

PL:
is it "safe" to use another level's coupon codes?

They likely will not work, but you could always try. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 3232
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 6:31 PM

Aren't the old ln benefits still active though? If so, you should still get your free book. How though is another question

Posts 20
Sojourner | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 6:33 PM

I don't know about next month, but the now-members page is still active.

Posts 1022
Keith Pang | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 28 2018 6:55 PM

Matthew Cillo:

I don't know about next month, but the now-members page is still active.

It probably will be until November of this year

Shalom, in Christ, Keith. Check out my music www.soundcloud.com/kpang808

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