Hardware question for Staff from Logos...

Page 1 of 1 (15 items)
This post has 14 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 9
Kstayte | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jul 10 2018 11:21 AM

I am finally coming to the point where I am able to seriously invest in new computer hardware and the most current Logos version. I have been quite happy with my older version, yet there are too many compelling features for me to not update.

My question(s) are this....

I will be updating to the Logos 8 version when it is released. 

I have been researching a new 15 inch windows Laptop for hardware, versus the Apple Macbook Pro, and the Windows unit seems to be the most versatile and the most upgrade-able. 

My problem is, when I begin to maximize the hardware choices to the latest processor, the latest video card, the maximum amount of ram, the fastest and largest SSD's, I can quickly go from a 2200.00 dollar device to an 11,700.00 device. So my dilemma is what would be a good setup that would maximize my Logos experience, and keep me within a 4K budget. 

I am looking at the Baptist flavor either Platinum or Portfolio, and am curious if books I am bringing to the table would follow me from prior version, and if so would that impact my package or would I be able to swap out for others to complete the package. 

Thank you so much in advance for this information, and guidance and if I could connect with a single salesman, that would be great! 

Kevin

Posts 3585
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2018 2:00 PM

I am not a Logos employee, but just went through that experience. I purchased a refurbished Dell from Walmart:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Refurbished-Dell-E6540-15-6-Laptop-Windows-10-Pro-Intel-Core-i5-4300M-Processor-8GB-RAM-750GB-Hard-Drive/55855194

The model is also sometimes offered with a 500GB SSD for slightly more. I have been happy with my purchase.  I earlier purchased a similarly configured model with a Celeron processor, but returned it. The computer comes with a three-month window for return with full refunds (both computer and extended warranty, if purchased). Since I returned the original device within the three-month window, there was no hassle. This model comes with an Intel Core i5-4300M Processor - and works well (by my standards) with LOGOS, WordSearch, OneNote, and LibreOffice, all running simultaneously. Give it a look, and return it if not satisfied for a full refund within three months. Though there is no shipping charge - I had it delivered to my local Walmart so I did not need to be concerned with it sitting outside my house if I was not home. 

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 3585
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2018 2:13 PM

Note 1: The "Only Two Remaining" message is a bit deceptive. They made the same comment when I purchased my system. After my purchase, the count went down to "one" and eventually "Not in stock" - except that two or three days later the message returned to "Only Two Remaining". That message has recycled through a couple of more times since my purchase last month. I suspect that Walmart purchases only two at a time so they are not loaded down with "refurbished" units. 

Note 2:  Be sure that a refurbished unit purchased from Walmart says "Sold & shipped by Walmart".  Walmart offers the 90-day return policy, other vendors may not.  Other vendors may only allow a 7-day return - after that only offering warranty repairs.

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 17071
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2018 4:25 PM

Kstayte:
I have been researching a new 15 inch windows Laptop for hardware, versus the Apple Macbook Pro, and the Windows unit seems to be the most versatile and the most upgrade-able. 

Apple offers refurbished MacBook Pro models => https://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_pro/15

Mac benchmarks => https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks shows fastest MacBook Pro (MBP) model is 3.1 GHz Intel i7-7920HQ having a single core benchmark of 4625

CPU benchmarks => https://browser.geekbench.com/processor-benchmarks shows an Intel Core i5-4300M having a single core benchmark of 3299, which is 29 % slower. A computation task that takes an hour on fastest MBP should take ~84 minutes (60 minutes * 4625 / 3299).

Noticed 2017 MacBook models with 1.4 GHz Intel i7-7V75 have a single core benchmark of 3924 while 1.3 GHz Intel i5-7Y54 has single core benchmark of 3609

MBP => https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/ has PCIe SSD (Solid State Disk) with read speed up to 3.2 GB/s and write up to 2.2 GB/s, which is substantially faster than SATA III SSD with 0.5 GB/s write speed (takes ~6 times longer to write large files). Spinning hard disk has 0.08 GB/s write speed (some hybrid models include smallish SSD for burst writing/reading). Storage speed noticeably affects Logos indexing and daily use.

Laptop upgradability depends on thickness of model. Appls is surface mounting items for smaller space and weight.

Microcenter offers refurbished Mac and Windows models => http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?N=4294967291+519&NTX=&NTT=&NTK=all&page=1&sortby=pricehigh

For a category of notebooks for shopping, would look at gaming ones.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 23186
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 10 2018 5:35 PM

Kstayte:
My problem is, when I begin to maximize the hardware choices to the latest processor, the latest video card, the maximum amount of ram, the fastest and largest SSD's, I can quickly go from a 2200.00 dollar device to an 11,700.00 device.

You can keep within a 4K budget (but it isn't clear whether that includes your Baptist Library). Go for 8 GB memory (RAM), 250 to 500GB SSD, Intel i5 processor (4 cores, 8th generation), and any 2 GB video card (the latest and greatest isn't needed unless you are a gamer). It should also have USB 3 or 3.1 for speed with peripherals.

Dave
===

Windows & Android

Posts 4082
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 11 2018 1:36 AM

Kstayte:
I am looking at the Baptist flavor either Platinum or Portfolio, and am curious if books I am bringing to the table would follow me from prior version, and if so would that impact my package or would I be able to swap out for others to complete the package. 

Just in case this question has been missed amongst all the hardware chat.

Faithlife guarantee that you will not have to purchase a resource twice. All your existing books will follow you when you install the new version of the software.

Eventually Logos 8 will be a free upgrade – unlikely when it is first released. When first released its availability is likely to be linked to the purchase of resource packages or feature sets. You don't say which version of the the software you are running at present but given that your existing computer can run it there is no downside to moving to Logos 7.

(Hardware – buy the Mac and do bible study rather than system maintenance 😊  )

Posts 1530
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 11 2018 8:36 AM

My main Logos machine is a year old Dell that was low end (less than 400 bucks) when I got it. 7th generation i3. 6 GB RAM. 1 TB HD. 1 USB 3 port, 2 USB 2 ports. My library is Lutheran Gold, with various other books purchased over the past 16 years for a total of 8.5k books - and a Resource folder of 35 GB.

When running Logos by itself on this low end machine - well - it gets it done. Slow loading up. A bit slower than I want on searches and reports, but workable. But if I start opening up lots of tabs in a web browser and have Microsoft Word also running, it slows down considerably.

Pulling up the "Task Manager" I consistently see that disk access seems to be the only bottleneck. The way multitasking slows things down makes me think that adding more memory would help - and I hear that 8-12 GB would probably be a noticeable improvement. If I were actually using Logos to anything more than just personal growth, I would almost certainly buy a 8 GB chip for 90 bucks or so to go to 12 GB.

But probably money would be better spent on getting a SSD. Probably I could get by for a Logos only machine with a 256 GB SSD. I definitely could with 512.

Just for curiosity clicking the web page for a local big-box story suggests that I could buy an Asus laptop with a 12 GB memory and a 512 SSD for 1k. Since it is Asus, first thing I would do with it would be to go through the Windows 10 process to do a clean re-install to get rid of bloatware, but it should be quite good for Logos.

Changing to look for 16 GB models, and I see many options for around 1k - in fact, with the lack of price difference and increased options at 16 GB, I would definitely go 16 instead of 12 if buying new.

Yeah - they have internal graphics. But I have never had a problem with this in Logos.

In general, based on using Logos for 16 years, I would say the following:

1) Any CPU that is still for sale would probably be fine.

2) Don't go with low end for installed RAM - Logos will use it. For whatever reasons, RAM prices have not been falling like much computer hardware has in the last few years.

3) SSD's make things a LOT faster as long as you get a big enough SSD for your whole library and index. With the way SSD prices are dropping and capacities are growing, this VERY MUCH looks the way to go.

4) I have never had a problem with Logos using the lowest end graphics hardware. The biggest concerns are readability that is easy on the eyes, and your virtual desktop real-estate. With a laptop, the later will always be greatly limited, at least until you dock up with an external screen.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

Posts 120
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 11 2018 8:47 AM

I would consider the Surface Book 2 15".  It has a fast SSD (PCIe NVMe SSD).  This is the same kind that is used in a Macbook Pro.  They're faster than regular SATA SSD's although I'm not sure how much Logos benefits from the increased speed.  

I find the 3:2 screen ratio excellent for Logos.  You also get a touch screen.

You can get the top of the line model for under $4K.  $3299 is the top configuration.

That gets you a Core i7 quad core CPU, 16gb of ram, 1TB SSD, and a dedicated GPU.  The Surface Book 2 also gets excellent battery life if that's a factor.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-book-2/overview#surfaceconfiguration

You can find these at Best Buy or Microsoft Stores if you have one nearby to see one in person.

Posts 2767
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 11 2018 9:57 AM

If you get an i7 8th generation processor, 16 gig of ram, a graphics card, and a 512 gig SSD, you should be able to handle any Logos program just fine that we can foresee.  That should be well within your budget.  Of course, I am speaking of a Windows laptop.  You would have more money to buy Logos resources left than if you buy an expensive fruity laptop.  

That is what I did, and I am very happy with it.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 17071
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 12 2018 1:37 PM

Michael Childs:
Of course, I am speaking of a Windows laptop.  You would have more money to buy Logos resources left than if you buy an expensive fruity laptop.

Caveat is fruity laptop needs substantially less operating system maintenance plus works well with iOS devices. Also some fruity models have competitive hardware pricing. Albeit not understand fruity decision to discontinue 17" laptop.

Personally prefer best performance per dollar. CPU Benchmarks => https://browser.geekbench.com/processor-benchmarks show Top 20 are a mix of 8th, 7th, and 6th generation Intel Processors: i7, i5, i3, i9, and Xeon. Speed difference in the Top 10 would be humanly challenging to notice since # 1 benchmark of 5931 for 8th Generation i7 is 10% faster than #10 benchmark of 5338 for 6th Generation i7.

Luxury price for faster MacBook Pro => https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/ and => https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/apples-new-2018-macbook-pros-are-now-available-and-the-top-specs-are-much-faster/ that is now available for purchase with 8th Generation i9 processor.

Apple store => https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/15-inch

Michael Childs:
If you get an i7 8th generation processor, 16 gig of ram, a graphics card, and a 512 gig SSD

Fruity price is $ 2,799 that has several customization options. 15" Display has retina resolution of 2880x1800

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 9
Kstayte | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 12 2018 4:46 PM

Floyd,

Thank you for the message. I appreciate you sharing your experience with me. However, I am looking for something with more processing power and better quality than what walmart has to offer. 

God Bless you,

Kevin

Posts 9
Kstayte | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 12 2018 4:49 PM

KS4J, 

I'm an apple fanboy as it is already :) I just can't seem to make the Macbook Pro work for what i want, and I am not willing to go desktop model anymore. I want to stick with the portability.

I have been looking at the gaming lappies as they seem to be the only ones that I can upgrade later and have the most versatility.  I am seriously trying to create the best configuration i can for 4k tops. I realize I give up alot at that price point but I just cant justify anymore than that reasonably.

Kevin

Posts 9
Kstayte | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 12 2018 4:50 PM

Dave my 4k budget is just for the laptop. The software has its own budget. :)

Kevin

Posts 17071
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 12 2018 8:11 PM

Kstayte:
I have been looking at the gaming lappies as they seem to be the only ones that I can upgrade later and have the most versatility.

NewEgg offers gaming laptops => https://www.newegg.com/Gaming-Laptops/SubCategory/ID-3365?Tid=167732

If was looking at a gaming laptop, would consider 4K screen resolution (3840x2160) => https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100167732%20600515142%208000&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&order=PRICE&page=1

Not know about MSI (as a manufacturer) while noting an open box laptop with 32 GB Ram, Dual GeForce GTX 1070, i7-7820HK (Single Core benchmark of 4672), 1 TB hard drive, 512 GB PCIE SSD RAID, and 4K resolution on 17.3" display is $ 2,999 => https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834154696R (plus limited time 10% discount promo code => $ 2,700)

Another MSI open box is $ 3,799 => https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834154798R with 8th generation i9-8950HK processor. New MSI is $ 4,499

Note: Newegg has Open Box disclaimer => https://kb.newegg.com/knowledge-base/product-disclaimers/?#2

ZD Net has i9-8950HK review => https://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-core-i9-8950hk-the-companys-most-powerful-laptop-chip-yet/

Kstayte:
I just can't seem to make the Macbook Pro work for what i want, and I am not willing to go desktop model anymore. I want to stick with the portability.

My desktop has 27" iMac with 5K display (2014) while portable is 2013 MacBook Air.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 367
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 13 2018 9:49 PM

Select models of the Surface Pro (2017) are up to $360 off right now. I just purchased an i5-7300U model with 8GB ram, a 128GB SSD, the Signature Type Cover, and a 2-year warranty from Costco. I'm adding a SanDisk Extreme 128GB microSDXC UHS-3 Card to help make up for the lack of internal storage without completely compromising on speed. That or a similar model might be worth considering for those who can work within such specs. Large Logos libraries can be quite the space hogs! So far, everything has been extremely quick and snappy both inside and outside of Logos, except for a couple bugs that I've encountered in Logos with at least one of them being old. The display is only 12.3 inches but excellent. I have a 32 inch external monitor that I use at home.

That doesn't seem to fit quite what you're looking for, Kevin. Nevertheless, there are plenty of options available as you and everyone else have already demonstrated. Keep in mind that technology moves so fast these days, that you might be better off spending on the lower end of your budget and then planning on upgrading if need be in a few years or so. You might also consider investing some of that money into a decent external display if you don't already have one. Computer hardware tends to offer steep diminishing returns (depending on one's opportunities, needs, and priorities).

Page 1 of 1 (15 items) | RSS