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Posts 638
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2018 2:00 PM

This cant be discussed here, but would love to private message with someone- or better still email about SDA.  Until this showed up in Logos as a "product group", I have always counted SDA in with Mormons and JW as a cult.  They are listed in cult books- like Kingdom of the Cults, etc..  But Faithlife does not have a product group for Mormons, or JWs, etc..  

So maybe I have not properly understood the distinctives of SDA?

-Michael

Posts 150
rog | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 19 2018 2:25 PM

Actually Walter Martin had us in the first version of Kingdom of the Cults. But after much discussion over several years with Adventists he declared we were basic evangelical Christians. His second version put us in the appendix only because he wanted to set the standard straight. 

Posts 2393
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 5:23 AM

There are some that claim to be SDA or Mormons or JW [and others] that are close to being cult members [David Koresh for example but his followers would dispute their being a cult]. 

The cult types make the news headlines but that does not make the mainstream group a cult. 

Michael S.:

So maybe I have not properly understood the distinctives of SDA?

  

Maybe you can find a local group of mainstream SDA or Mormons or JW and ask for advice.  

Or if you have a Roku box check out some of the religious channels

If you use the internet to find out be sure that you are reading a pro site and not a anti site.  [[there are anti sites for everything]]

Posts 1355
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 9:20 AM

From an academic perspective, “cult” has little diagnostic meaning beyond “religion I don’t like.” It says more about the speaker than the topic. 

And fwiw, Mormons are at least somewhat represented here. I‘m probably the most prominent, but I know of a few others. I’ve proposed an academic collection of Mormon books from Oxford Press, U of Illinois Press, etc. here on the boards a few years back.

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 638
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 9:38 AM

rog:

Actually Walter Martin had us in the first version of Kingdom of the Cults. But after much discussion over several years with Adventists he declared we were basic evangelical Christians. His second version put us in the appendix only because he wanted to set the standard straight. 

Ah, I was unaware of the change.  Thanks, I will check into that.

Posts 638
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 9:39 AM

Ben:

From an academic perspective, “cult” has little diagnostic meaning beyond “religion I don’t like.” It says more about the speaker than the topic. 

And fwiw, Mormons are at least somewhat represented here. I‘m probably the most prominent, but I know of a few others. I’ve proposed an academic collection of Mormon books from Oxford Press, U of Illinois Press, etc. here on the boards a few years back.

Interesting.  I have seen some of your posts before Ben, but did not know you were LDS.  I am about to post my understanding of the definition of "cult", so maybe it will strip any connotations the word carries...  Thanks for replying.

Posts 638
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 9:40 AM

David, thanks for replying.

Posts 638
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 9:51 AM

By cult, I mean:

these six characteristics defined by Ron Rhodes: 

1. Authoritarian Leadership

2. Exclusivism

3. Isolationism

4. Opposition to independent thinking

5. Fear of being "disfellowshiped".

6. Threats of Satanic attack

(http://andynaselli.com/sociological-characteristics-of-cults).

Posts 650
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 9:54 AM

Some people call Christianity a cult because we're obsessed with and have singular devotion to some dude named Jesus of Nazareth. lol Seriously though, I was taught a cult is a "high-control" group that is organized around a particular person or thing. By high-control I mean that the group exercises an inordinately high degree of control over its members.

Here's how Google defines a cult:

Cult
noun noun: cult; plural noun: cults A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. "the cult of St. Olaf"
  • a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister. "a network of Satan-worshiping cults"
    synonyms: sect, denomination, group, movement, church, persuasion, body, faction "a religious cult"
  • a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing. "a cult of personality surrounding the leaders"
    synonyms: obsession with, fixation on, mania for, passion for, idolization of, devotion to, worship of, veneration of "the cult of eternal youth in Hollywood"
Posts 638
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 10:00 AM

David Ames:

If you use the internet to find out be sure that you are reading a pro site and not a anti site.  [[there are anti sites for everything]]

Is this a fair presentation?

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/9-things-you-should-know-about-seventh-day-adventism/ 

Posts 650
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 10:08 AM

David Ames:

There are some that claim to be SDA or Mormons or JW [and others] that are close to being cult members [David Koresh for example but his followers would dispute their being a cult]. 

The cult types make the news headlines but that does not make the mainstream group a cult. 

Michael S.:

So maybe I have not properly understood the distinctives of SDA?

  

Maybe you can find a local group of mainstream SDA or Mormons or JW and ask for advice.  

Or if you have a Roku box check out some of the religious channels

If you use the internet to find out be sure that you are reading a pro site and not a anti site.  [[there are anti sites for everything]]

I have family members that are SDA and whenever I tell people that they always ask me "is that like Jehovah's Witnesses?" SDAs are trinitarian Christians, so, no, not like JWs. lol I don't know where people got the idea to conflate SDAs with JWs. From my understanding SDAs keep the sabbath and have particular beliefs about the second coming of Jesus (hence the name Seventh Day Adventist). Some observe certain dietary restrictions but not all do, so there's diversity there. So they're Christians with different practices. I've visited a couple of SDA churches, I didn't find them to be too different than other church services except they meet on Saturday.

Posts 650
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 10:11 AM

Michael S.:

David Ames:

If you use the internet to find out be sure that you are reading a pro site and not a anti site.  [[there are anti sites for everything]]

Is this a fair presentation?

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/9-things-you-should-know-about-seventh-day-adventism/

The Seventh Day Adventist church has its own website that explains all of their beliefs. That's where you should start. https://www.adventist.org/en/beliefs/

Posts 2393
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 11:06 AM

Michael S.:

Kiyah:

The Seventh Day Adventist church has its own website that explains all of their beliefs. That's where you should start. https://www.adventist.org/en/beliefs/ 

Always review the works of a group and not what others say about the group. And always add a space at the end of a link  to make the link active.

Posts 638
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 11:20 AM

Kiyah:

Here's how Google defines a cult:

Cult
noun noun: cult; plural noun: cults A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. "the cult of St. Olaf"

  • a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister. "a network of Satan-worshiping cults"
    synonyms: sect, denomination, group, movement, church, persuasion, body, faction "a religious cult"
  • a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing. "a cult of personality surrounding the leaders"
    synonyms: obsession with, fixation on, mania for, passion for, idolization of, devotion to, worship of, veneration of "the cult of eternal youth in Hollywood"

In my Logos library, I have a resource- 

About Missiology: An Introduction to the Foundations, History, and Strategies of World Mission 

Chapter 24 is regarding cults, and it is very in depth and has helpful material in case anyone has that book.  But it interacts with many definitions of cult and their applications with various groups.  I think, my understanding is primarily an evangelical understanding- therefore any group that denies the foundational tenets of the historic Christian faith is subject to this categorization.  

But all that aside, your comments have been helpful, and have at least spurred my research into the SDA.

Posts 158
Reimar Vetne | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 1:50 PM

Among biblical scholars, Seventh-day Adventists are generally considered to be Evangelical. For instance, the Adventist Theological Society (ATS) is affiliated with the Evangelical Theological Society (ETS) and run their annual gathering of scholars in the same venue:

http://www.etsjets.org/puc/puc_overview (see last paragraph)

Posts 650
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 4:27 PM

David Ames:

And always add a space at the end of a link  to make the link active.

SmileYes Lol. I was wondering why the link didn't go active when I hit post.

Posts 6481
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 20 2018 6:14 PM

Happy Sabbath everyone.

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

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