Just a Few More Days for L8

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Posts 4834
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 24 2018 8:10 PM

Don’t mind in passage guide, Facebook etc, if it’s relevant to the passage or topic I’m studying but on the homepage a launch pad into the scriptures should be the thing that takes primary focus.

Robert M. Warren:

So, you don't want to see an Assyrian man throttling an ostrich on your Home Page?

Posts 28
Dr. Charles A. Wootten | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 9:54 AM

Dale E Heath:
How many of you use 2 or more monitors? What size are they? It's something I'm thinking about.

Four ~27" monitors. Left to right: first made by LG; second an HP2509m; last two by ACER. NVIDIA GeForce GT720 video adapter.

HP 500-250t desktop. i5-4590 CPU @ 3.30GHz. 10GB RAM. Windows 10 PRO 64-bit.

To connect all 4 monitors to the computer, one is plugged directly to the computer and the other three use individual SABRENT/DISPLAYLINK UGA-2K-195 USB adapters as shown in the picture on the right. I have had these adapters for years so they may be superseded. Try http://www.displaylink.com/products/usb-adapters to see what's what. Something similar at https://plugable.com/products/uga-165/.

If all the speculation about L8 is true, then my monitors should be dazzling! Big Smile

God bless

{charley}

 

Posts 999
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 11:58 AM

Nick:

I am inclined to disagree with this.  For years, users have given great suggestions for how to improve important functionalities for user-friendliness.  The most recent great example comes from the L8 Wishlist thread, which requested a search builder similar to Ebsco.  I really think that the most intimidating part of learning Logos isn't learning how to use the tools in the menus, but learning the search syntax.  This would go miles toward improving the ease of use without compromising power or features in any way.

That said - I'm committed to avoiding the negativity I often see in these forums.  While I see room for improvement, I also understand that there's a lot going on behind the scenes that I don't fully understand.  I'm willing to be patient, and any requests that I might have, I make humbly.  I don't expect that Logos should be tailor-made for me.

I agree with both your comment about the search syntax being the most challenging aspect of Logos, and the need to avoid negativity.

Perhaps the best way I can express my perspective is through an analogy. I've done a fair amount of woodworking over the years.  Some tools just feel right in your hands, becoming almost an extension of your body. They're simple and intuitive to use, and just work.

I've also found that there's a striking difference between professional power tools and hobbyist/homeowner tools.  The professional tools generally don't look nearly as nice as the hobbyist tools.  They're heavy, in dark colors, and don't have a lot of bells and whistles.  Hobbyist tools are often in friendly colors, and have laser guides and lots of attachments. The professional tools, though, generally have cast iron or steel frames, tables and cutting surfaces that are dead level and square, motors that could seemingly drive a freight train, and can safely and efficiently cut wood all day long.  They're often insanely easy to use, and just feel right.  The hobbyist tools are too light, wobble if you try and run a large board through them, tend to be difficult to set up, have limited accuracy even when you do get them properly adjusted, and the attachments and gizmos tend to be more annoyance than they're worth.

The same thing happens with other tools.  We had a faucet that was giving us fits a number of years ago.  I went to Home Depot and bought the nifty combination plumbing wrench that fit every standard plumbing nut in the world.  The thing kept sliding off the pipe nuts and bending.  So, I went back and bought a drop-forged steel wrench the length of my arm that was designed for the specific nuts that hold drain traps together.  I love it so much that I ended up buying my dad one too (I know - we're a weird family).  But it just feels right - and it sure makes removing and tightening those nuts easy!

Logos is clearly powerful enough - and I love that power.  But at some level, it just doesn't feel right in my hands.  I struggle to apply its power in a natural, intuitive manner. 

So for me, it's not really a matter of simple versus powerful.  It's a question of whether the tool is designed in a way that makes it feel natural to use, especially for the most common operations.

Posts 633
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 12:24 PM

Nick:

I'm going to guess on the release date - either July 23 or 30.  The last two releases have been in a Monday, which makes sense.  I'm guessing a bit earlier this time than last time since effort went into defending an "approximate" two year schedule.  Any other guesses?

“But about that day or hour no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (Mark 13:32)

Lol, sorry I couldn't resist. But as for the 8th Coming of Logos, given the curfuffle caused by them releasing Logos 7 in August instead of October (2 months "early"), I would guess they would do around Aug 20 to avoid more complaints. Of course, they could move it back to October, but then folks will complain that it's two months "late."

Posts 649
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 12:34 PM

Dr. Charles A. Wootten:

Dale E Heath:
How many of you use 2 or more monitors? What size are they? It's something I'm thinking about.

Four ~27" monitors. Left to right: first made by LG; second an HP2509m; last two by ACER. NVIDIA GeForce GT720 video adapter.

HP 500-250t desktop. i5-4590 CPU @ 3.30GHz. 10GB RAM. Windows 10 PRO 64-bit.

To connect all 4 monitors to the computer, one is plugged directly to the computer and the other three use individual SABRENT/DISPLAYLINK UGA-2K-195 USB adapters as shown in the picture on the right. I have had these adapters for years so they may be superseded. Try http://www.displaylink.com/products/usb-adapters to see what's what. Something similar at https://plugable.com/products/uga-165/.

If all the speculation about L8 is true, then my monitors should be dazzling! Big Smile

God bless

{charley}

 

Charley, thank you so much for posting. I would never have thought about using a USB adapter. I assumed they would be too slow and would need a bunch of memory. I'll definitely consider them when I get ready to upgrade. Is your USB 2.0 or 3.0? Thanks, Dale Heath

Posts 4834
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 12:34 PM

It should not be released to November if they kept their word in the first place but FL always like to stretch and redefine the truth so they will release it when they like that is the only thing that is certain and all this speculation is nonsense.

Kiyah:

Nick:

I'm going to guess on the release date - either July 23 or 30.  The last two releases have been in a Monday, which makes sense.  I'm guessing a bit earlier this time than last time since effort went into defending an "approximate" two year schedule.  Any other guesses?

“But about that day or hour no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (Mark 13:32)

Lol, sorry I couldn't resist. But as for the 8th Coming of Logos, given the curfuffle caused by them releasing Logos 7 in August instead of October (2 months "early"), I would guess they would do around Aug 20 to avoid more complaints. Of course, they could move it back to October, but then folks will complain that it's two months "late."

Posts 41
Dan Starcevich | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 12:38 PM

I use dual 27 inch monitors at home and in the office.  Works great and a real time saver for me

Posts 8835
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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 1:02 PM

Dr. Charles A. Wootten:

Very nice set up. Thanks for sharing. I'm inspired to think how I might do something similar.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 165
Nick Highland | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 1:36 PM

Kiyah:

“But about that day or hour no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (Mark 13:32)

Lol, sorry I couldn't resist. But as for the 8th Coming of Logos, given the curfuffle caused by them releasing Logos 7 in August instead of October (2 months "early"), I would guess they would do around Aug 20 to avoid more complaints. Of course, they could move it back to October, but then folks will complain that it's two months "late."

The 8th coming - ha!  Yes, I doubt there is any way they can release it that will avoid complaints.  This is why I am committed to not contributing to those complaints!  

Since I don't think that Logos exists to cater to my every whim and expectation... perhaps Romans 12:3 - "For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought..."

Posts 6154
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 1:50 PM

Bruce Dunning:

Dr. Charles A. Wootten:

Very nice set up. Thanks for sharing. I'm inspired to think how I might do something similar.

Stop high jacking my thread!  If you want a thread about monitors start your own 😂🤡😁

Posts 619
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 2:06 PM

EastTN:

Logos is clearly powerful enough - and I love that power.  But at some level, it just doesn't feel right in my hands.  I struggle to apply its power in a natural, intuitive manner. 

So for me, it's not really a matter of simple versus powerful.  It's a question of whether the tool is designed in a way that makes it feel natural to use, especially for the most common operations.

Well said.  I enjoyed your whole post.  I am a woodworker (in my dreams)... so really related to what you have said.  I have not really used any other software, so I cannot compare Logos with others.  But what I do know is that it is capable of doing 90% more than I know how to.  I have the Camp Logos discs- both 1 and 2.  I can research what I need to know how to do... but it is like you said, it doesn't "feel natural".  

I am having to learn Excel... I am self taught, but am having to use it more for my work, and I am realizing how much it can do that I did not have a clue about.  So, like Logos, it is capable of doing 90% more than I know how to do.  It is exciting to see others whiz away at either program, but when I try to emulate or "own" the knowledge, I get frustrated and discouraged.  Beyond the guides, I get pretty lost and like a kid in the shallows, I don't care to step out in the deep for fear I will drown.

We need buttons that do the complicated programming in the background.  But I guess the dash board would look like a space ship with so many buttons.  Just as I have a hard time knowing how to enter a function code in Excel, I cannot master the search strings for Logos... when to put a space, when not to, when to capitalize, when not to.  When to use certain symbols, when not to... there has to be an easier way.  

FL needs to do more Mind mapping, maybe.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 2:17 PM

DAL:
Stop high jacking my thread!  If you want a thread about monitors start your own 😂🤡😁

So, you admit that you monitor your non-monitor thread? Wink

Just a few more days (34, shh!) for Logos 8 Carta Edition!

Posts 633
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 2:28 PM

doc:

Don’t mind in passage guide, Facebook etc, if it’s relevant to the passage or topic I’m studying but on the homepage a launch pad into the scriptures should be the thing that takes primary focus.

Robert M. Warren:

So, you don't want to see an Assyrian man throttling an ostrich on your Home Page?

I'd like it if the Home Page was smarter. Like show me suggested stuff on my home page based on what I've been reading or searching for lately. Show me more stuff on related topics. But not obvious stuff that I would have found in my search, just suggestions about what else I could read based on what I've been interested in lately. Stuff that's already in my library though, not stuff I have to buy (Looking at you Logos marketers lol). But it would be nice to have some "You might also be interested in..." tiles rather than the random stuff that comes up on the home screen now. The home screen should be completely dedicated to helping people explore.

Posts 6154
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 3:03 PM

PetahChristian:

DAL:
Stop high jacking my thread!  If you want a thread about monitors start your own 😂🤡😁

So, you admit that you monitor your non-monitor thread? Wink

Just a few more days (34, shh!) for Logos 8 Carta Edition!

L8 Carta Edition would be a huge incentive for you and others! I pray you get your wish 👍😁👌

Posts 14
Paul Watson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 7:15 PM

I just want to comment... I am an electrician , who went to school for electrical engineering, so I am a little nerdy, but I know and have skills with pro level power tools....
If all I want to do is read a text or compare several versions on the same text, I'll use Olivetree. If I want to just read a book that I can get in Olivetree... I'll read it there. I started with Esword, which I really liked... and Esword to Olivetree felt natural. Olivetree. gives what I think your driving at when you say "natural".
Having said that.... running LOGOS can be a bit like, dare I say running the star ship enterprise, but the techie nerd in me likes that. Once you get the hang of layouts and learn to make your own personal book sets... So your not looking at everything thats there, just the information that you need to read or study or understand what your trying to do right now, its a lot more manageable. To use your tool analogy I have a room full of tools at work. 90% of what I do requires a screwdriver and pliers. When I need something outside of that, I'll go to the storeroom and put a few things in a tool bag and leave the rest. That equates to having a custom layout, with a personal resource list. I get what your saying about doing searches. I know how to use some of them, but I'm not sure I understand all the searches that can be done.
I like having, i like knowing that I have all of the resources and the tools to use those resources that any theologian that I might meet, or read, or encounter. I might have to work harder to understand.. but I have access. I dont have to blindly accept anything.... I can study and findout for myself...
Did this make sense?

Posts 775
Lew Worthington | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 7:26 PM

It makes sense to me Paul. I relate strongly to what you've said.

Lew

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 7:47 PM

Paul Watson:
Did this make sense?

Being a bit of a geek, I can also relate.

90% of the time, we only need a couple of tools, yet the program has no concept of a storeroom where features can generally be out-of-sight, yet available when needed. (The flip side is out-of-sight, out-of-mind, leading us to forget there's a different feature we can take advantage of.)

Hats off to all the designers who have the talent to create uncluttered, intuitive user experiences, making things more manageable for their users.

Posts 633
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 8:04 PM

I actually found Logos intuitive to use. When I was deciding whether to buy Accordance or Logos, I tried them both out in my seminary's library and Logos was so much easier for me to just poke around and figure out how to do basic stuff. Of course you have to invest some time if you want to be a power user. But I used it fine for my seminary needs without being a power user. But since I was a student when I got Logos I needed to immediately start using it for real stuff, which forces you to learn how to use something quickly. I also worked in corporate finance for 12 years and had to learn how to use a lot of different systems quickly, most of the time without training.

But it could be how my brain works, since I like to explore and see where my study takes me. (So maybe it is like the Starship Enterprise in that regard. lol) I like the interconnectedness of everything and how I can right click or double click on something and it takes me somewhere else, click on a link and it opens another resource, or hover over something a get a snippet of that resource.

But we're all different and I can easily understand how Logos could be overwhelming or seem too complicated for some. That's why I haven't suggested Logos to my mother. She's been generally tech savvy but I think she's finally gotten to the age where she doesn't want to invest time to learn anything new. I may set up the Basic version for her the next time I go home just to see if she'd be interested. But she's been using E-Sword for years and she doesn't even use that too much anymore.

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 8:50 PM

PetahChristian:

Paul Watson:
Did this make sense?

Being a bit of a geek, I can also relate.

90% of the time, we only need a couple of tools, yet the program has no concept of a storeroom where features can generally be out-of-sight, yet available when needed. (The flip side is out-of-sight, out-of-mind, leading us to forget there's a different feature we can take advantage of.)

Hats off to all the designers who have the talent to create uncluttered, intuitive user experiences, making things more manageable for their users.



Same. A plumber doesn't use every took in his van for every broken pipe. A mechanic doesn't use every tool in his box to change an air filter. But the tools are there for WHEN they are needed, not necessarily every job. I worked in IT for a while. Not EVERY job needed the same fix. So I had to be prepared and have enough understanding to identify and use the appropriate tool for the job. Not needing a given IT tool for every job doesn't devalue it (eg software, spare parts, boot utilities etc). Same with Logos. I'm not going to need this book for every paper or sermon I write. But considering the level of that groups activity in my community, I'm going to need it sooner or later. Its valuable to have, and when I do need it, I'll have it and can do the appropriate search to find it.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 2200
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 9:41 PM

I'm in no rush for L8. If it gets a big index speed boost, that would make me happy. Updating boat anchors my computers. It's really the one thing that annoys me about Logos. I'm still delighted with Logos and it keeps getting better. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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