Logos Staff: A Story to Give you something to think about

Page 6 of 11 (212 items) « First ... < Previous 4 5 6 7 8 Next > ... Last »
This post has 211 Replies | 10 Followers

Posts 2061
Forum MVP
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 9:38 AM

Cynthia in Florida:

Randy W. Sims:

Francis:

MJ. Smith:
Oops, Faithlife Assistant Embarrassed NEW Logos Now Feature: Faithlife Assistant  see https://wiki.logos.com/Faithlife_Assistant_Commands for a view of its capabilities. I suspect extensions are dependent on use and suggestions.

It is a step in the direction of the "tell me what you want to do" suggestion I had made. I looked at the examples under "search" however and at this point, it is very rudimentary and limited.

I played around with FA a good bit when it was first released and I agree it is underwhelming as an separate utility. If it were to replace the GO box, it would be an awesome terrific powerful upgrade. But advertising it as it is as an assistant begs comparison to things like Cortana, Alexa, Siri, Google, which it is not or was not at the last time I tried it.

Randy:  excellent suggestion.  Again,  I have no idea what it would take to make things like this happen, but it’s a great idea.  

Actually, IIRC, this was mentioned as one of their possible goals. I just hope it makes it to L8 in that form.

BTW, I said GO box, but meant Command box. Always on screen and avail. There is no need for GO and improved Command box.

Great thread. I haven't read it all yet. Kind of skipped around. Logos could definitely be improved in many ways. A graphical search builder is extremely feasible and reasonable, and would be high on that list. But on the other Logos is a complex software doing lots of complex things and there is a limit to how much you can simplify without taking away. There is also the target audience to consider. I may be wrong but I would expect the average layperson/non-academic/non-professional/etc. to gravitate more toward the web app and/or the mobile app. If that is the case, and that is an IF, there is less value or at least a limit on how much effort or work is done to "simplify" Logos while more effort should be given to making sure the web & mobile app are suitable for that audience. There is still MUCH that can be reasonably be expected. But there may be limits. I don't know. Just considering...

Posts 21742
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 9:42 AM

Hi Cynthia

Cynthia in Florida:
Let’s say I am reading my Bible and I want to open up other Bibles so I can compare the translations.  Rather than having to go find the text comparison, there should be an OBVIOUS button or key that is consistent across the entire program where I can click on that and say something like “I want to compare Bible text.”  The program can then launch the text comparison tool and bring it into my window.  There should then be a pop up or something like that that says, “choose your versions to compare and click enter” or something like that.  

Interesting example.

So for the "obvious button" do you mean something like I am showing below?

This is in the "shortcut bar" which we - as users - can populate with tools, resources, etc (and we can change the text that appears to the right of the icon and change the icon itself by right-clicking on it as shown below 

If, for the "guided mode" you are advocating, some of these shortcut buttons were prepopulated might that go someway towards helping with this?

And then the challenge would be working out which things need to be pre-populated!

Posts 348
LogosEmployee
Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 10:25 AM

Wow, what a great response to this thread! Please keep it going; I just wanted to jump in quickly to let you know I'm following along. 

Here are the themes I keep hearing from you: 

  • General ease of use; many support the idea of "Simple mode."
  • More free training (which some suggest wouldn't be needed if usability issues were addressed).
  • Search, especially regarding the need to simplify a complex syntax.
    • Faithlife Assistant and Bible Browser are a good start, but not advanced or integrated enough to be helpful all the time.
    • A search builder might help.
  • Speed. 
  • Did I miss anything?

These are all things we are thinking about (a lot), but it's super helpful to get the perspective of boots-on-the-ground users like you. I appreciate hearing from everyone here about your real experience, and what we can do to make it better. 

Carry on, we're listening.

Adam Borries | Product Manager, Logos desktop application

Message me on Faithlife.com >>

Posts 3174
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 10:50 AM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
Carry on, we're listening.

Thanks, Adam, and FL!

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 11:14 AM

PetahChristian:

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
Carry on, we're listening.

Thanks, Adam, and FL!

Yes Adam!  Thank you so much.  It is always helpful to know that someone is listening and that suggestions and frustrations are a concern.  Again, THANK YOU!

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 11:42 AM

Graham Criddle:

Hi Cynthia

Cynthia in Florida:
Let’s say I am reading my Bible and I want to open up other Bibles so I can compare the translations.  Rather than having to go find the text comparison, there should be an OBVIOUS button or key that is consistent across the entire program where I can click on that and say something like “I want to compare Bible text.”  The program can then launch the text comparison tool and bring it into my window.  There should then be a pop up or something like that that says, “choose your versions to compare and click enter” or something like that.  

Interesting example.

So for the "obvious button" do you mean something like I am showing below?

This is in the "shortcut bar" which we - as users - can populate with tools, resources, etc (and we can change the text that appears to the right of the icon and change the icon itself by right-clicking on it as shown below 

If, for the "guided mode" you are advocating, some of these shortcut buttons were prepopulated might that go someway towards helping with this?

And then the challenge would be working out which things need to be pre-populated!

Hello Graham:  I’m not sure if your ”interesting example” is ACTUALLY interesting or what we in the south say more like “Bless her heart!” :). Wink

Anyway, an obvious button COULD be something like what you are showing above, but in my mind I think I’m thinking more of a help icon that would look the same on every window.  Then, when you click on it, you type in what you are looking for, so in my example it was a text comparison.  Once text comparison tool opens, then I would have all the options available to me that the package I purchased supplies, whether its included in the “basic” or “advanced” program (or add-on or whatever).  Then, from that window, unless the screen SCREAMS “choose your versions to compare here,” there should be something directing me to that.  In your example above, the “show text comparisons” drop down could link to more advanced features of the same tool,  videos on how to use the more advanced features of that tool, pre-formatted templates or layouts (if necessary) to use that advanced tool, etc.

As for the short-cut toolbar, LearnLogos advocates greatly for that, and so I have mine very well set up, but guess what.  For YEARS I didn’t know I could do that.  Further, I learned how to do that after purchasing training videos and then have him guide me through setting it up. So I would say yes to your question about whether or not prepopulating the shortcut buttons would go a long way.

You know, that just made me think of something.  How about something like Word on my Mac.  If I am using Word in a most basic way, then only my editing toolbars are visible at the top.  But the moment I input a chart or a pictures, the coordinating toolbars appear.  Microsoft pre-populated the functions that everyone needs for editing that chart or picture on the tool bar.  So immediately, I know I can crop my picture, recolor it, etc.  However, I can re-populate Microsofts prepopulated toolbar (as your example above) if I want to with other (more advanced) functions.  When I am no longer using a document with a chart or tools, those toolbars disappear.  

These are just some thoughts in my head that I’m thinking of to make the program more user friendly for those who don’t know how to find tools or create their own shortcut tool bar or whatever.  I realize that in many of my examples, I’m speaking in very basic basic terms to things that may not appeal to most of the users on this board, and I have absolutely NO clue what it would take technologically to make any of these things happen.  However, I’m not smart enough to come up with these ideas off the top of my head.  I only know of them because I see them in other programs as tools that make my life easier in the program I’m using, so I gotta think the guys at FL can do likewise.   Also, if we remember my original post, I’m championing for the little guy. :)

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 21742
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 12:18 PM

Hi Cynthia

Cynthia in Florida:
 I’m not sure if your ”interesting example” is ACTUALLY interesting or what we in the south say more like “Bless her heart!” :). Wink

I'm not familiar with the meaning of that expression but it sounds as though my comment might have come across as somewhat condescending. If so, that was not intended and I apologise. I was simply trying to explore the specific example you had mentioned and found it interesting that it could be 70% addressed with what we currently have in the product.

Cynthia in Florida:
Anyway, an obvious button COULD be something like what you are showing above, but in my mind I think I’m thinking more of a help icon that would look the same on every window.

Thanks for the clarification. So working that through a bit there is currently a help icon on the top right with a number of options - including pointing to various sources of training / discussion. But I don't think it is those that are the focus of this discussion as they don't provide information within the product itself.

But it does provide access to the Logos help file. If, using the earlier example, we want to know how to compare texts - and if we happen to know we need to use a tool to do it, we can open the Tools section of the helpfile and select the Text Comparison Tool which tells us what it does and how to use it.

However there are a couple of limitations with this:

  1. It assumes we know there is a tool that will do what we want
  2. It doesn't open the tool, rather it tells us how to do it

There is, however, a "How-To" section which - while it doesn't cover the sort of things we are talking about - could presumably be extended to do so

I'm not at all sure this is the right way to go about addressing the issue but it is an option.

Cynthia in Florida:
You know, that just made me think of something.  How about something like Word on my Mac.  If I am using Word in a most basic way, then only my editing toolbars are visible at the top.  But the moment I input a chart or a pictures, the coordinating toolbars appear.  Microsoft pre-populated the functions that everyone needs for editing that chart or picture on the tool bar.  So immediately, I know I can crop my picture, recolor it, etc.  However, I can re-populate Microsofts prepopulated toolbar (as your example above) if I want to with other (more advanced) functions.  When I am no longer using a document with a chart or tools, those toolbars disappear.

I like that example - it is really helpful.

I guess the problem though is that Word really operates with a single panel view and so changing the icons in the ribbon at the top depending on what is being edited in the panel makes sense. With Logos operating with many multiple panels it probably makes sense to have panel / function specific icons.

Have you seen the "quickstart cards" on the homepage of the webapp?

I'm just wondering how that concept would fit into what we are discussing here? Clicking a card takes you to the relevant Tool / Guide but at least it is starting from a functional perspective.

Cynthia in Florida:
These are just some thoughts in my head that I’m thinking of to make the program more user friendly for those who don’t know how to find tools or create their own shortcut tool bar or whatever.

Absolutely and I think its a very important discussion

Cynthia in Florida:
 I realize that in many of my examples, I’m speaking in very basic basic terms to things that may not appeal to most of the users on this board, and I have absolutely NO clue what it would take technologically to make any of these things happen.

And I guess I'm trying to work through different ways in which these ideas could be implemented starting from where we are with the hope that some of them might be useful!

Cynthia in Florida:
Also, if we remember my original post, I’m championing for the little guy. :)

SmileYes

Posts 52
Bill | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 12:23 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

These are all things we are thinking about (a lot), but it's super helpful to get the perspective of boots-on-the-ground users like you. I appreciate hearing from everyone here about your real experience, and what we can do to make it better. 

Carry on, we're listening.

Thank you Adam! It's great encouragement to know your listening. Much appreciated!

If I might be so bold to ask. What are some of the ideas the FL team are considering possible solutions or may currently be working on if you can? Big Smile

Posts 2465
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 12:36 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

  • Search, especially regarding the need to simplify a complex syntax.
    • Faithlife Assistant and Bible Browser are a good start, but not advanced or integrated enough to be helpful all the time.
    • A search builder might help.

This would be great, even for power users. I stand by what I said before, that the search functions are like trying to bite into SQL.

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
General ease of use; many support the idea of "Simple mode."

This would be great for the mass market. If you can scale up simple mode and/or simple search seamlessly into advanced mode, that would make many new and old users very happy.

Posts 781
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 12:48 PM

Graham Criddle:

Cynthia in Florida:
 I realize that in many of my examples, I’m speaking in very basic basic terms to things that may not appeal to most of the users on this board, and I have absolutely NO clue what it would take technologically to make any of these things happen.

And I guess I'm trying to work through different ways in which these ideas could be implemented starting from where we are with the hope that some of them might be useful!

Cynthia in Florida:
Also, if we remember my original post, I’m championing for the little guy. :)

SmileYes

Thank you, Cynthia, for running with the ideas, + championing the little guy.

Thanks, Graham, for taking the time to, as a user with much expertise, show us how L7 works now, and positing around ideas folks have suggested in this thread.

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 1:12 PM

Hello Graham:  Please see my responses in bold below

Graham Criddle:

Hi Cynthia

Cynthia in Florida:
 I’m not sure if your ”interesting example” is ACTUALLY interesting or what we in the south say more like “Bless her heart!” :). Wink

I'm not familiar with the meaning of that expression but it sounds as though my comment might have come across as somewhat condescending. If so, that was not intended and I apologise. I was simply trying to explore the specific example you had mentioned and found it interesting that it could be 70% addressed with what we currently have in the product.

I guess that's the danger of talking over the internet.  I didn't take offense...I was trying to jest and failed miserably.  I'm sorry about that.  You humility is a lovely witness.

Cynthia in Florida:
Anyway, an obvious button COULD be something like what you are showing above, but in my mind I think I’m thinking more of a help icon that would look the same on every window.

Thanks for the clarification. So working that through a bit there is currently a help icon on the top right with a number of options - including pointing to various sources of training / discussion. But I don't think it is those that are the focus of this discussion as they don't provide information within the product itself.

Correct. I’m aware of that little, obscure ? tucked away in the upper right hand corner but have you navigated through those things before? It takes forever because there’s so much there and again, as MJ pointed out, most new or like-new users don’t know what they need, so how can you search for something that you don’t know what you need?

But it does provide access to the Logos help file. If, using the earlier example, we want to know how to compare texts - and if we happen to know we need to use a tool to do it, we can open the Tools section of the helpfile and select the Text Comparison Tool which tells us what it does and how to use it.

AND THERE YOU SAID IT!!!! We have to know that we need to use a tool! For the end user, I think they are looking on the screen right in front of them thinking, “Okay, this should be simple, all I want To do is compare my KJV on my screen that I’m reading with my NASB. Where the heck are they?” I don’t think they are thinking, ”Okay, I want to compare two of my Bibles. Let me go over to help, scroll down to the Logos Help file, click on the button that says tools, scroll down to text comparison” just to find “Click on Tools, click on text comparison, click into the reference text box and type your passage, click into the resource picker and choose the Bible versions, etc., etc.” Me personally, I’m thinking something like, “I want to compare my KJV with my NASB. I can’t see how to do that. Oh, look-y here, a help button (up pop friendly help box that says, “what can I help you find?”). I type in “compare bible versions). Up comes the Text Comparison tool that shows options for the Bible texts I can compare in my library. I click the NASB (because in my example, my KJV is already open), and voila, Bob’s your uncle. ...and I go about comparing the two versions.

However there are a couple of limitations with this:

  1. It assumes we know there is a tool that will do what we want
  2. It doesn't open the tool, rather it tells us how to do it

There is, however, a "How-To" section which - while it doesn't cover the sort of things we are talking about - could presumably be extended to do so.  Agreed.  Instead of having to hunt for it, wouldn't that be better linked in the window where I'm looking for that help?

I'm not at all sure this is the right way to go about addressing the issue but it is an option.

Cynthia in Florida:
You know, that just made me think of something.  How about something like Word on my Mac.  If I am using Word in a most basic way, then only my editing toolbars are visible at the top.  But the moment I input a chart or a pictures, the coordinating toolbars appear.  Microsoft pre-populated the functions that everyone needs for editing that chart or picture on the tool bar.  So immediately, I know I can crop my picture, recolor it, etc.  However, I can re-populate Microsofts prepopulated toolbar (as your example above) if I want to with other (more advanced) functions.  When I am no longer using a document with a chart or tools, those toolbars disappear.

I like that example - it is really helpful.

I like it too.  Maybe it's a bit "pie in the sky" but as I've said, a girl can dream.

I guess the problem though is that Word really operates with a single panel view and so changing the icons in the ribbon at the top depending on what is being edited in the panel makes sense. With Logos operating with many multiple panels it probably makes sense to have panel / function specific icons.

Have you seen the "quickstart cards" on the homepage of the webapp?

I haven't.  Honestly, I didn't know they existed.  When you say webapp, you mean they are OUTSIDE of my program?  If so, then that's ANOTHER example of how I would have to go looking somewhere else for help that not only would I need to know existed, but also, I'm not even sure I know what to call it and...I don't even know help exists there or what kind of help I'd get (as in me with the webapp or your wonderful suggestion of saving a search string to favorites.)  There's so much "help" scattered all over the place that differently approaches the help function I need, how would I know that if THAT help function didn't work, let me go find another?

I'm just wondering how that concept would fit into what we are discussing here? Clicking a card takes you to the relevant Tool / Guide but at least it is starting from a functional perspective.  Agreed, it would be some type of beginning.

Cynthia in Florida:
These are just some thoughts in my head that I’m thinking of to make the program more user friendly for those who don’t know how to find tools or create their own shortcut tool bar or whatever.

Absolutely and I think its a very important discussion

Cynthia in Florida:
 I realize that in many of my examples, I’m speaking in very basic basic terms to things that may not appeal to most of the users on this board, and I have absolutely NO clue what it would take technologically to make any of these things happen.

And I guess I'm trying to work through different ways in which these ideas could be implemented starting from where we are with the hope that some of them might be useful!  And with your know-how and gift of clarity in instruction, you'd be a great guy to do just that!  THANK YOU!

Cynthia in Florida:
Also, if we remember my original post, I’m championing for the little guy. :)

SmileYes

Adding this too:  Much of what you mentioned above, I knew about, but that's all because I've hunted for it or was taught it some place or another, but in all examples, the user has to have some sort of knowledge on where to find everything and all the help and tools are outside the screen the user is currently using.  To me, that's not easy to use nor intuitive, and keep in mind, in our text comparison example, we are speaking in the most BASIC of basic needs for Bible software.  What about when they start getting into something more complicated, like say, "What does this biblical word mean" and the software starts throwing out terms like morphology and lemma and...  See what I mean?

Thanks Graham, truly, for your contribution to this forum and this thread.  Your willingness to share your vast information with the likes of me is much appreciated!  Bless you!  (Not "bless your heart" but Bless you! :) ) 

P.S. and O/T:  In case you're curious... https://www.southernliving.com/culture/bless-your-heart-response

Wink

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 21742
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 1:24 PM

Thanks Cynthia - appreciatedSmile

Just picking up on one point 

Cynthia in Florida:
I haven't.  Honestly, I didn't know they existed.  When you say webapp, you mean they are OUTSIDE of my program?  If so, then that's ANOTHER example of how I would have to go looking somewhere else for help that not would I need to know existed,

The webapp is available at app.logos.com and is designed to provide access to your Logos library and features when you don't have access to your computer.

Some ideas and features are explored / developed on the webapp first and then incorporated into the desktop at a later stage. So the new Notes Tool - for example - was first available on the webapp and is now available in beta form on the desktop.

And I wasn't suggesting that a user would need to go there from the desktop to get this functionality - but wondering if that functionality would be helpful integrated into the desktop.

Graham

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 1:37 PM

Graham Criddle:

Thanks Cynthia - appreciatedSmile

Just picking up on one point 

Cynthia in Florida:
I haven't.  Honestly, I didn't know they existed.  When you say webapp, you mean they are OUTSIDE of my program?  If so, then that's ANOTHER example of how I would have to go looking somewhere else for help that not would I need to know existed,

The webapp is available at app.logos.com and is designed to provide access to your Logos library and features when you don't have access to your computer.

Some ideas and features are explored / developed on the webapp first and then incorporated into the desktop at a later stage. So the new Notes Tool - for example - was first available on the webapp and is now available in beta form on the desktop.

And I wasn't suggesting that a user would need to go there from the desktop to get this functionality - but wondering if that functionality would be helpful integrated into the desktop.

Graham

Well then, I'm learning something new again!  Nope, never knew about it.  Never even knew it existed.  I guess because the only time I come on here for the most part has been to A.  Ask how to do something and B. Try to Find my Irving Jensen book (SUCCESS!)  or C. Beg FL to make the software more user friendly, I wouldn't know about it.  I'm wondering how would I know about it.   How would anyone know about it unless they come here.   Is it on the home screen, is it advertised someone there and I'm just blind? Do I need to ask m self "I wonder what Logos has as a back up or beta testing site in case my desktop doesn't work.  Let me click Logos Help, scroll down to library backup, know that it's called webapp, search for... See my point? Big Smile

Anyway, I super quickly clicked around.  I definitely think there's promise there, but only if they are on the screen where that function is needed.  Not if I have to go looking for it. 

Thanks again!

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 966
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 3:49 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

  • General ease of use; many support the idea of "Simple mode."
  • More free training (which some suggest wouldn't be needed if usability issues were addressed).
  • Search, especially regarding the need to simplify a complex syntax.

  • Faithlife Assistant and Bible Browser are a good start, but not advanced or integrated enough to be helpful all the time.
  • A search builder might help.

  • Speed. 
  • Did I miss anything?

quickley

A number of us have commented that we sometimes forget an essential point in some procedure. We need an easy quick way of being able to find the answer. An analogy is that I have forgotten what the parameters are to be able to search in a piece of MSWord text to find four or five digit numbers. I can do a fuzzy search in Google and there is every chance that it will bring up an example where the precise thing I need is explained. I really dont want to have to work through a long training session to find the information that I have mentally mislaid. So we need a comprehensive library of brief information and a good way of searching it. The latter seems to imply a fuzzy search or bey detailed tagging.

Posts 52
Bill | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 4:13 PM

Cynthia in Florida:
There is, however, a "How-To" section which - while it doesn't cover the sort of things we are talking about - could presumably be extended to do so.  Agreed.  Instead of having to hunt for it, wouldn't that be better linked in the window where I'm looking for that help?

I like this idea. Lets see if I am understanding it correctly. Lets say I open a search panel, at the top of the panel where the different types of search options are located there is an option which is labeled help. If i select "basic" search and select the help button in the panel, it will take me directly to the topic for a basic search in the help file. Likewise, if I select "morph" and select the help button it will take me to the morph search topic in the help file.This could be applied to every tool panel. It would be right there, one click away and eliminate searching through through the various topics to find it.The help file information that comes up would need to include links to other related info such as advanced searching and videos, which some are included now.

Posts 2061
Forum MVP
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 5:12 PM

Bill:

Cynthia in Florida:
There is, however, a "How-To" section which - while it doesn't cover the sort of things we are talking about - could presumably be extended to do so.  Agreed.  Instead of having to hunt for it, wouldn't that be better linked in the window where I'm looking for that help?

I like this idea. Lets see if I am understanding it correctly. Lets say I open a search panel, at the top of the panel where the different types of search options are located there is an option which is labeled help. If i select "basic" search and select the help button in the panel, it will take me directly to the topic for a basic search in the help file. Likewise, if I select "morph" and select the help button it will take me to the morph search topic in the help file.This could be applied to every tool panel. It would be right there, one click away and eliminate searching through through the various topics to find it.The help file information that comes up would need to include links to other related info such as advanced searching and videos, which some are included now.

Ages ago, around the mid-late 90s, there was a fad around this: They called it Context Sensitive Help. Press F1 and get help on the what your currently looking at. Shift-F1 and get a help cursor which you could point at any button or widget on screen to find out what it did. That legacy feature has passed out of favor these days. Office for example, which used to abound in context sensitive help, now relies on command box to answer questions. Really, a good mix of both context sensitive and a very smart command box are helpful. Logos does have some context sensitive help when you press F1, but it doesn't zero in. For example, pressing F1 in Passage Guide gets general Guide entry. Pressing F1 in Media search gets general Search help. Pressing the Help button in top right is completely unaware of context.

Posts 26151
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 6:58 PM

Sort of like F9 Explain this screen?  :-)

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 8858
Forum MVP
Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 25 2018 7:07 PM

JohnB:

Bruce Dunning:
My problem is that, even after I learn something like that, I often forget. Tongue Tied This growing thread is surely striking a cord.

even if it is only  that we forget very easily!!

I resemble that comment. Wink

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 3649
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 1:05 AM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

Here are the themes I keep hearing from you: 

  • General ease of use; many support the idea of "Simple mode."
  • More free training (which some suggest wouldn't be needed if usability issues were addressed).
  • Search, especially regarding the need to simplify a complex syntax.
    • Faithlife Assistant and Bible Browser are a good start, but not advanced or integrated enough to be helpful all the time.
    • A search builder might help.
  • Speed. 
  • Did I miss anything?

These are all things we are thinking about (a lot), but it's super helpful to get the perspective of boots-on-the-ground users like you. I appreciate hearing from everyone here about your real experience, and what we can do to make it better. 

Carry on, we're listening.

I'm not sure that "simple mode" is really part of the picture here: what users struggle with is rarely very simple stuff like how to line up two panels or search for a word. A simple mode could turn out to be a simplistic solution which would not be one at all. 

You hit several of the key points (search builder, better integration, speed). I would say that the approach to date has been mainly to add to what was already there. This does not change the lack of intuitiveness and accessibility of advanced functionality but is supposed to alleviate the problem by offering more docs and tools. Yet in a way, it compounds the problem, since it increases the number of tools and resources one must learn to draw on in order to learn how to do things.

Several areas of need are important:

  • Faithlife has been resistant for years to the users' comments that the underlying technology was sluggish. There have been improvements but it continues to be a problem. One gets the impression of band-aid solutions rather than an overhaul.
  • Faithlife has defended -- unfortunately with the frequent help of MVPs who seem to think that their mission is "to come to the rescue" -- the notion that advanced software must of necessity have a high learning curve and be somewhat arcane. This is not unlike what can be seen in behavioural issues in which a party cannot change because they refuse to admit that change is needed.
  • Faithlife has had a consistent history of pushing out of the gate unfinished tools and what appears like side projects. This means that new tools are often poorly integrated, poorly documented, and are not polished as far as usability and performance are concerned.

I hope you will not read this as scathing criticism as I do not intend it as such. What I do intend is to connect symptoms and root causes. What I see in the ideas of adding more documentation and more tools to remedy these problems is more of the same and superficial attempts to address issues.

This being said, I truly appreciate that you are listening and know that many things are more easily said than done. 

Posts 26151
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 26 2018 1:55 AM

Francis:
unfortunately with the frequent help of MVPs who seem to think that their mission is "to come to the rescue"

I hope you are not mistaking the realism of  > 30 years in IT for "coming to the rescue". Despite appearances, computers are not magical - they simply do incredibly simple things at extremely high speeds to give the appearance of magic except when they don't.

Francis:
Faithlife has had a consistent history of pushing out of the gate unfinished tools

This is probably my biggest annoyance at this time think:

  • outlines
  • compare pericopes
  • narrative character maps
  • Bible people visual timelines
  • Factbook basics & cleanup
  • Time line links
  • Saint cycles for all but Latin Rite Catholic. . .

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Page 6 of 11 (212 items) « First ... < Previous 4 5 6 7 8 Next > ... Last » | RSS