Your notes are coming to the web app

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Posts 381
LogosEmployee
Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jul 27 2018 4:07 PM

TLDR: The web app uses a new Notes tool, which is separate from Note documents on Logos desktop and mobile apps. Over the next three weeks, we will be migrating all users' notes into the new system, so they will soon be available at app.logos.com

Is there any risk?

No. Your note documents will not be affected; we are simply copying them into the new system. (They will also continue to copy forward; more on that below.)

What do I need to do?

Nothing; the migration happens all on the backend.

When will my notes be available on the web app?

Your notes will gradually appear at app.logos.com over the next three weeks. We are migrating hundreds of millions of notes in no particular order.

What happens to my old note documents?

Your note documents will continue to exist, and you can still use them normally on Logos desktop and mobile. This is a continuous, one-way migration:

  • Any notes you continue to create (or edit) in documents will automatically populate to the Notes tool, but not vice versa.
  • You won’t see changes you make in Notes tool showing up in documents, but you will see changes in documents showing up in Notes tool.
  • If you edit a migrated note in Notes tool, and then edit it in the original document, it will not re-migrate; the Notes tool will protect the changes you made in the new notes version.

Is there a way to use the new web-style Notes tool on Logos desktop? 

Yes! Join the Notes Tool beta testers group on Faithlife. To switch to use the new Notes tool by default, use the command Set Prefer Notes Tool to Yes.

How are my migrated notes organized?

Document Title == Notebook. In the old system, a note must be part of a “document” (a.k.a “note file”); the note can’t exist independently. In the new system, all notes belong to a single database, and can optionally be organized into containing Notebooks. Migrated notes will belong to a Notebook of a same title as the document it came from.

Migrated notes will get all the same rich facets as notes created in the Notes tool (type, resource, Bible book, etc). Since many users organize note documents similarly, many Notebooks may be functionally duplicated by facets.

Anything else I should know?

Collaborated note documents are not being migrated at this time. Collaborated documents are “owned” by a group, and we are only migrating notes owned by individual users for now.

Labels won’t show (or be searchable) in migrated notes. If you have highlighting styles that imply a label, we are storing that data in the Notes tool, but the tool doesn’t know what to do with it yet. Label search extensions will continue to work as normal with your note documents in the search panel.

Adam Borries | Product Manager, Logos desktop application

Message me on Faithlife.com >>

Posts 1963
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2018 6:56 PM

Will the new note system allow a user to export all his/her notes to a Word file?

Posts 1838
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2018 7:11 PM

Mark:

Will the new note system allow a user to export all his/her notes to a Word file?

We haven't built exporting functionality yet, so we're not 100% sure how it'll work. We may limit exporting to notebooks. A note can be in only one notebook. You could perhaps add all your notes to the same notebook and export them.

What use cases would you want to solve for with exporting?

Posts 1963
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2018 7:36 PM

The main and most important concern I have is the ability to save notes to an external file. I have two Bibles from my youth with notes in them.  Not easy to export those notes into another format to be able to use in the future.  If I am to start writing notes in my Logos Bible, I want the ability to export those notes easily.  The best way would be to have a function that will export all notes from a Book in the Bible or all notes written in a Bible to an external file that can easily be converted into a Word file or pdf or another standard format.  That way, I am sure that the notes can be extracted from Logos.

Without confirmation that notes can be exported to a single file means I am forced to continue doing double work...creating notes in Logos, and also copying those notes at the time I write them into a Word file that continues to grow.  Doing it this way assures me that I have the notes in Logos, but also in a separate format outside of Logos.

I am quite sure this would be an important issue for most people.

Posts 1838
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2018 7:52 PM

We definitely will support exporting, like we do in the current system. The main question for me is whether we'll initially have an "export my entire database" option. It seems more likely that we'll have an option to export all notes in a given notebook. That seems like it would meet your needs as you've described them above. You'd just need to bulk add all the notes you want to export to a notebook first. But maybe exporting will be a bulk action and not require the intermediate step of adding them to a notebook. I'm not sure yet. Regardless, you should be able to bulk export your notes fairly easily.

Posts 1963
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2018 8:32 PM

Thanks Phil for the response

Posts 5168
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2018 8:57 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
TLDR:

What do you mean by this ? 

And what does all this mean for desktop users and Logos 8 ? Are we going to loose functionality and be forced onto a beta tool ?

The notes tool in the web app continues to look very immature and very much a beta software.  I can only select an apply a yellow highlight to selected text, I then have to open up the note tool find the highlight and change it to my preferred highlight and then I am limited to preset highlights. Most of my notes in the desktop use customer highlighting pallets.  You have sold this software for many years on the basis of users being able to create custom highlights.  It was also said we would be able to apply our own tags to notes and filter by those tags yet no sign of this functionality either when I look at the new notes tool in the web app.

What functionality are we going to end up with in the desktop app ? Are the feature you have sold this software on going to disappear overnight because you are forcing beta software on to users who have not signed up for beta testing just so you can fit in with marketing plans to push Logos 8 out of the door ?  We need a much better explanation of what you are doing here than just saying we don't know what it will look like if your plan is in fact to force a beta notes tool on to desktop users just so you can showcase Logos 8 has having a great new notes tool - which actually takes away functionality from notes that users have come accustomed to using and have built their whole note taking strategy around. 

You botched things up when you went from Libronix 3 to Logos 4 with a whole  lot of missing features you promised would eventually resurface and then one day with all those missing features not complete you just took down the webpage tracking progress of those missing features with no explanation to users.  

Don't botch things up again force us onto beta notes tool with sub functionality just so you can fit in with your marketing timetable for Logos 8.

Please proved an open and clear explanation of what you are doing here rather than just giving us crumbs and then shrugging your shoulders and saying we don't know what it will look like if you are in fact about to force this beta notes tool onto Logos 8 desktop users.

Posts 1838
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 27 2018 9:36 PM

doc:

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
TLDR:

What do you mean by this ? 

TLDR or TL;DR is short form for "too long; didn't read" and is used either in response to a really long post that you didn't take the time to read or as a way of summarizing on a long post so those who don't have time to read the whole thing can get the main point. Adam was using it in the latter sense.

doc:
And what does all this mean for desktop users and Logos 8 ?

The new notes tool will replace the current notes system in Logos 8. We'll support both systems until the free version of Logos 8 is available, so you won't be forced to pay to move to the new system. Even after that, the old system will continue to work in older clients like Logos 7 and older versions of the mobile app.

doc:
Are we going to loose functionality and be forced onto a beta tool ?

You will not be forced to use the beta. We're inviting everyone to try out the beta, so they can begin getting acquainted with the new tool. We don't want users to have a jarring experience when they switch. The beta gives the opportunity to start learning the new system without abandoning the current one. It's entirely optional, though. If it's not for you, that's totally fine. No pressure.

doc:
The notes tool in the web app continues to look very immature and very much a beta software.  I can only select an apply a yellow highlight to selected text, I then have to open up the note tool find the highlight and change it to my preferred highlight and then I am limited to preset highlights. Most of my notes in the desktop use customer highlighting pallets.  You have sold this software for many years on the basis of users being able to create custom highlights.

There are planned improvements coming, including custom styles.

doc:
It was also said we would be able to apply our own tags to notes and filter by those tags yet no sign of this functionality either when I look at the new notes tool in the web app.

Tags are there and have been for months. They're at the bottom of the editor, and they're the fifth facet in the filters sidebar.

doc:
What functionality are we going to end up with in the desktop app ?

There's plenty of new functionality that didn't exist in the old system, and we're aiming for as close to feature parity with the current system as possible.

doc:
Are the feature you have sold this software on going to disappear overnight because you are forcing beta software on to users who have not signed up for beta testing just so you can fit in with marketing plans to push Logos 8 out of the door ?

No.

doc:
We need a much better explanation of what you are doing here than just saying we don't know what it will look like if your plan is in fact to force a beta notes tool on to desktop users just so you can showcase Logos 8 has having a great new notes tool - which actually takes away functionality from notes that users have come accustomed to using and have built their whole note taking strategy around.

See above.

doc:
You botched things up when you went from Libronix 3 to Logos 4 with a whole  lot of missing features you promised would eventually resurface and then one day with all those missing features not complete you just took down the webpage tracking progress of those missing features with no explanation to users.

I'm sorry we didn't meet your expectations.

doc:
Don't botch things up again force us onto beta notes tool with sub functionality just so you can fit in with your marketing timetable for Logos 8.

See above.

doc:
Please proved an open and clear explanation of what you are doing here rather than just giving us crumbs and then shrugging your shoulders and saying we don't know what it will look like if you are in fact about to force this beta notes tool onto Logos 8 desktop users.

See above.

Are there specific questions you'd like answers to?

Posts 5168
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 3:39 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

doc:

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
TLDR:

What do you mean by this ? 

TLDR or TL;DR is short form for "too long; didn't read" and is used either in response to a really long post that you didn't take the time to read or as a way of summarizing on a long post so those who don't have time to read the whole thing can get the main point. Adam was using it in the latter sense.

Why not just stick to plain language rather than using acronyms that not everyone is familiar with - lack of clarity in FL's communications is a continued problem. You are dealing with an international audience from a wide range of demographics. I don't think this added to the communication in anyway and because form the start I had no idea what he was on about the message was lost immediately.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

doc:
And what does all this mean for desktop users and Logos 8 ?

The new notes tool will replace the current notes system in Logos 8. We'll support both systems until the free version of Logos 8 is available, so you won't be forced to pay to move to the new system. Even after that, the old system will continue to work in older clients like Logos 7 and older versions of the mobile app.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
You will not be forced to use the beta. We're inviting everyone to try out the beta, so they can begin getting acquainted with the new tool. We don't want users to have a jarring experience when they switch. The beta gives the opportunity to start learning the new system without abandoning the current one. It's entirely optional, though. If it's not for you, that's totally fine. No pressure.

"Until the free version of Logos 8 becomes available"...

a) So are you saying as a Logos Connect member when Logos 8 is released I will not loose any functionality and disconnect between my resources, notes and highlights in the desktop application - everything will continue as it is right now. When I look in the web app all I see is a whole lot of notes disconnected from their source because you have released this tool into the web app environment prematurely without all the required supporting features for a seamless transition. Based on what you are saying now, how you have answered other questions and how FL has acted in the past that you really understand what it happening in this space / what the transition plan will be or look like.

b) so what happens then when this project is not completed? Are you going to delay release of the free version? Otherwise your statement that users will not be forced onto a beta tool that disconnects users notes and the original  source of those notes is false.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

doc:
The notes tool in the web app continues to look very immature and very much a beta software.  I can only select an apply a yellow highlight to selected text, I then have to open up the note tool find the highlight and change it to my preferred highlight and then I am limited to preset highlights. Most of my notes in the desktop use customer highlighting pallets.  You have sold this software for many years on the basis of users being able to create custom highlights.

There are planned improvements coming, including custom styles.

see above - you are not giving me confidence FL actually understands the significance of getting this wrong, the time you managed to loose everyone's personal books and we had to re-create them all - have you forgotten about that. Multiply that by a zillion fold when it comes to users notes - if you don't have this ready so that peoples notes are not disconnected from the resources where they made those notes in the first place, like is currently happening with the web app - and you have said nothing about the mobile app as yet - or heaven forbid manage to loose peoples notes, it won't be pretty

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

doc:
What functionality are we going to end up with in the desktop app ?

There's plenty of new functionality that didn't exist in the old system, and we're aiming for as close to feature parity with the current system as possible.

New functionality means nothing when I have notes disconnected from their source as I currently see in the web app. At the moment the web app is useless to me because of how you have treated it a live beta you forced onto anyone using it.

What does "as close to feature parity with the current system as possible" mean ? Please be upfront and clear and avoid openness with customers trough the use of vague language.  What is not going to fall in the possible range ? Once again this statement does not leave me with confidence.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

doc:
It was also said we would be able to apply our own tags to notes and filter by those tags yet no sign of this functionality either when I look at the new notes tool in the web app.

Tags are there and have been for months. They're at the bottom of the editor, and they're the fifth facet in the filters sidebar.

I am sorry but I couldn't see where to enter them, the box is so light you can hardly see it and don't notice it if it's not there as it is disconnected from the users line of sight as every other aspect of the note is in at the top of the note file and so one's eyes do not look to the bottom of the screen. It would make much more sense for the space to enter user tags to be in the users line of sight.  If you dont' move this to the top, please at least make it more visible so that users dont' miss it.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
doc:
Please proved an open and clear explanation of what you are doing here rather than just giving us crumbs and then shrugging your shoulders and saying we don't know what it will look like if you are in fact about to force this beta notes tool onto Logos 8 desktop users.

Phil all you are giving me at this point is the FAQ scripted answers, not real answers to my concerns - see above.

Posts 3267
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 28 2018 5:43 PM

Thanks for the update, Phil!

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
The new notes tool will replace the current notes system in Logos 8.

Two questions about timing and feature parity:

I highlight on both desktop and iPad, so I wonder what impact that might have, if one platform would be new notes, and the other is still old notes.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We'll support both systems until the free version of Logos 8 is available, so you won't be forced to pay to move to the new system.

Just to make sure I understand that timing, the free version usually is available in February 2019 (for non-subscribers)?

I haven't used or seen new notes, personally, so the new system will be a bit of a (pleasant) surprise for me. Looking forward to seeing what it offers!

Hoping everything will transition smoothly both for FL and for users! Thanks to everyone for your hard work in developing, using, and testing new notes!

Posts 5168
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2018 1:25 PM

Bump Phil Gons. 

Waiting on your response to if Logos Connect members are going to be forced onto the new notes platform when Logos 8 is released even if it has missing functionality of existing notes system.

Petah also has outstanding questions.

Posts 1838
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2018 2:31 PM

doc:

Bump Phil Gons. 

Waiting on your response to if Logos Connect members are going to be forced onto the new notes platform when Logos 8 is released even if it has missing functionality of existing notes system.

Petah also has outstanding questions.

I'm sorry for the delay. I will try to reply later today after I'm done with meetings.

Posts 3152
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2018 4:15 PM

doc:
Why not just stick to plain language rather than using acronyms that not everyone is familiar with - lack of clarity in FL's communications is a continued problem. You are dealing with an international audience from a wide range of demographics. I don't think this added to the communication in anyway and because form the start I had no idea what he was on about the message was lost immediately.

For whatever it's worth, I found that it added to my immediate understanding of his post.

Posts 5168
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2018 5:19 PM

Thanks Phil, just didnt want the discussion to get lost in the forum forest.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

doc:

Bump Phil Gons. 

Waiting on your response to if Logos Connect members are going to be forced onto the new notes platform when Logos 8 is released even if it has missing functionality of existing notes system.

Petah also has outstanding questions.

I'm sorry for the delay. I will try to reply later today after I'm done with meetings.

Posts 5168
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2018 5:35 PM

SineNomine:

doc:
Why not just stick to plain language rather than using acronyms that not everyone is familiar with - lack of clarity in FL's communications is a continued problem. You are dealing with an international audience from a wide range of demographics. I don't think this added to the communication in anyway and because form the start I had no idea what he was on about the message was lost immediately.

For whatever it's worth, I found that it added to my immediate understanding of his post.

I am not saying it didn’t for those in the know, but if you don’t have a clue on what it means and it’s the first thing you read, it distracts for the message.

Posts 1838
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2018 10:50 PM

doc:
Why not just stick to plain language rather than using acronyms that not everyone is familiar with - lack of clarity in FL's communications is a continued problem. You are dealing with an international audience from a wide range of demographics. I don't think this added to the communication in anyway and because form the start I had no idea what he was on about the message was lost immediately.

I don't disagree. It was likely an oversight. It's commonly understood internally, and he likely forgot to consider that it's probably not as broadly understood among users.

doc:
a) So are you saying as a Logos Connect member when Logos 8 is released I will not loose any functionality and disconnect between my resources, notes and highlights in the desktop application - everything will continue as it is right now. When I look in the web app all I see is a whole lot of notes disconnected from their source because you have released this tool into the web app environment prematurely without all the required supporting features for a seamless transition. Based on what you are saying now, how you have answered other questions and how FL has acted in the past that you really understand what it happening in this space / what the transition plan will be or look like.

I'm not sure what you mean by "disconnect between my resources, notes and highlights." Are you saying you're not seeing them in your resources? If so, make sure to check your Notes and Highlights visual filters.

If not, can you clarify exactly what you mean? I'm not following you. Are you perhaps not seeing the faceted browsing sidebar that shows all the metadata for your notes and highlights?

doc:
b) so what happens then when this project is not completed? Are you going to delay release of the free version? Otherwise your statement that users will not be forced onto a beta tool that disconnects users notes and the original source of those notes is false.

I stand behind my statement that we're not going to force people to pay for an upgrade to continue to access their notes. They'll be able to use the existing system until the new system is ready to replace it.

doc:
see above - you are not giving me confidence FL actually understands the significance of getting this wrong, the time you managed to loose everyone's personal books and we had to re-create them all - have you forgotten about that. Multiply that by a zillion fold when it comes to users notes - if you don't have this ready so that peoples notes are not disconnected from the resources where they made those notes in the first place, like is currently happening with the web app - and you have said nothing about the mobile app as yet - or heaven forbid manage to loose peoples notes, it won't be pretty

This is precisely why we're migrating everyone's notes well in advance and giving people the opportunity to begin to get acquainted with the new system. We'd much rather people have time to adjust than switch without warning and catch people off guard.

doc:

New functionality means nothing when I have notes disconnected from their source as I currently see in the web app. At the moment the web app is useless to me because of how you have treated it a live beta you forced onto anyone using it.

What does "as close to feature parity with the current system as possible" mean ? Please be upfront and clear and avoid openness with customers trough the use of vague language.  What is not going to fall in the possible range ? Once again this statement does not leave me with confidence.

Labels may not make it into the new system in time, which would mean that you'd need to access your labels in the old system until we've brought them over. We're currently not planning to bring note indentation over. Very few people used it, and beta testers have told us they don't consider that to be an important feature to retain as long as we provide other ways of capturing structure, like preset styles (H1, H2, H3, etc.).

doc:
I am sorry but I couldn't see where to enter them, the box is so light you can hardly see it and don't notice it if it's not there as it is disconnected from the users line of sight as every other aspect of the note is in at the top of the note file and so one's eyes do not look to the bottom of the screen. It would make much more sense for the space to enter user tags to be in the users line of sight.  If you dont' move this to the top, please at least make it more visible so that users dont' miss it.

I don't disagree. There's an open case to review the styling for tags.

Posts 1838
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 31 2018 10:59 PM

PetahChristian:
Is the new notes system planned to be available in L8.0 (desktop) when L8 first ships, or scheduled for a later 8.x release? What about mobile? The last I recall, all platforms would be moved to the new system early next year.

We're planning to release the new notes system out of beta on desktop, web, and mobile with Logos 8. Early next year is when all free versions of our apps should have the new notes system.

PetahChristian:
I highlight on both desktop and iPad, so I wonder what impact that might have, if one platform would be new notes, and the other is still old notes.

Our one-way continuous migration solves for this, not perfectly, but sufficiently. But most people shouldn't have to be split between old and new. Our plans are to release to all three platforms at the same time. The only way a person might be on both platforms is if they have an older device that doesn't run a modern OS required to run the latest versions of our app.

PetahChristian:
Just to make sure I understand that timing, the free version usually is available in February 2019 (for non-subscribers)?

That would be consistent with what we usually do.

PetahChristian:
I haven't used or seen new notes, personally, so the new system will be a bit of a (pleasant) surprise for me. Looking forward to seeing what it offers!

I hope you like it, and I'd love your feedback if you decide to give it a try during the beta period.

PetahChristian:
Hoping everything will transition smoothly both for FL and for users! Thanks to everyone for your hard work in developing, using, and testing new notes!

Thank you!

Posts 5168
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2018 1:56 PM

Phil you still are avoiding answering the question I am asking. When Logos 8 is released will all of my note that are based on custom highlights be visible  in the resource I created them i.e. will custom highlights be functioning as they do now when Logos 8 is released or are you going to break peoples notes intentionally. It’s a fairly simple question.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

PetahChristian:
Is the new notes system planned to be available in L8.0 (desktop) when L8 first ships, or scheduled for a later 8.x release? What about mobile? The last I recall, all platforms would be moved to the new system early next year.

We're planning to release the new notes system out of beta on desktop, web, and mobile with Logos 8. Early next year is when all free versions of our apps should have the new notes system.

PetahChristian:
I highlight on both desktop and iPad, so I wonder what impact that might have, if one platform would be new notes, and the other is still old notes.

Our one-way continuous migration solves for this, not perfectly, but sufficiently. But most people shouldn't have to be split between old and new. Our plans are to release to all three platforms at the same time. The only way a person might be on both platforms is if they have an older device that doesn't run a modern OS required to run the latest versions of our app.

PetahChristian:
Just to make sure I understand that timing, the free version usually is available in February 2019 (for non-subscribers)?

That would be consistent with what we usually do.

PetahChristian:
I haven't used or seen new notes, personally, so the new system will be a bit of a (pleasant) surprise for me. Looking forward to seeing what it offers!

I hope you like it, and I'd love your feedback if you decide to give it a try during the beta period.

PetahChristian:
Hoping everything will transition smoothly both for FL and for users! Thanks to everyone for your hard work in developing, using, and testing new notes!

Thank you!

Posts 1838
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2018 2:28 PM

doc:
When Logos 8 is released will all of my note that are based on custom highlights be visible  in the resource I created them i.e. will custom highlights be functioning as they do now when Logos 8 is released or are you going to break peoples notes intentionally. It’s a fairly simple question.

Perhaps you missed it when I responded to your initial inquiry about custom highlight styles: "There are planned improvements coming, including custom styles." To be more explicit: yes, we are planning to have support for custom highlight styles before the new notes system ships out of beta.

Posts 1838
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2018 2:44 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
I'm not sure what you mean by "disconnect between my resources, notes and highlights." Are you saying you're not seeing them in your resources? If so, make sure to check your Notes and Highlights visual filters.

Doc, can you shed some light on this for me? This seems to be your biggest concern, and I'm not sure what it means. Can you help? We can't address it if we don't understand what you're seeing. Can you provide a screenshot? Thanks.

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