Would FL....?

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Beloved | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Aug 1 2018 1:29 PM

A recent thread gave me the idea to request a method by which we could formulate a Search that returned hits along with a summary of the relevant content of books that were NOT currently in you're library. This would alert the researcher to resources that may be of interest for possible purchase currently or in the future. I'm not sure of the feasibility or even the novelty of this idea, but I thought I give it a go.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2018 1:46 PM

Yes

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2018 2:04 PM

While I can see why a user would wish to see these results occasionally (say you're studying a "marginal" topic and not getting many hits from your library), this should NOT be the default behavior. This kind of search would have to run on the FaithLife servers and thus require an internet connection (HUGE potential performance trap).

If this were to be explored, I'd rather see a button added at the bottom of the search results window, that runs this kind of search as a one-off whenever actually wanted/needed.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2018 2:04 PM

Great suggestion if it could ever be pulled off but I have my doubts. The reason I say this is that searches we do within our libraries in Logos are based upon indexing of every word in our libraries. I'm not sure how that could happen for books that are not in our libraries. 

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Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2018 2:07 PM

Reuben Helmuth:
I'd rather see a button added at the bottom of the search results window, that runs this kind of search as a one-off whenever actually wanted/needed.

Agree

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2018 3:00 PM

Bruce Dunning:
searches we do within our libraries in Logos are based upon indexing of every word in our libraries. I'm not sure how that could happen for books that are not in our libraries. 

As Reuben indicates this Search would have to be executed on the FL server and with an internet connection. I think it could be done and FL would benefit from the latent promotion of its products.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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Nick Highland | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2018 3:35 PM

This would be a great secondary benefit of utilizing Faithlife's servers for indexing for all internet-connected Logos devices, while preserving offline indexing as a backup for non-internet connected devices and personal book libraries.

That would boost the speed of Logos searches substantially.

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Nick Highland | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2018 3:38 PM

Bruce Dunning:

Great suggestion if it could ever be pulled off but I have my doubts. The reason I say this is that searches we do within our libraries in Logos are based upon indexing of every word in our libraries. I'm not sure how that could happen for books that are not in our libraries. 

This already happens with the online app.  Using the app's online indexing on our desktop installations would speed up Logos quite a lot, anyway.

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Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2018 3:43 PM

If I could get search results from resources I didn't own, that would be a great incentive for purchasing the resource.  I could see this being especially useful for journals.

I'm going from memory, which is somewhat fuzzy, but I think I remember something several years ago that Logos would still produce search results even if you had returned the resource.  You couldn't access the resource, but you could search it because it had been indexed in your library.

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Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2018 3:53 PM

Nick:
That would boost the speed of Logos searches substantially.

You say my idea would result in boosted Search speed! Go ahead I'm listening Geeked

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2018 4:32 PM

Ronald Quick:
but I think I remember something several years ago that Logos would still produce search results even if you had returned the resource.  You couldn't access the resource, but you could search it because it had been indexed in your library.

Notes or clippings from that resource would be preserved, but it cannot be searched once removed from Library.

Dave
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 1 2018 4:48 PM

Nick:

This would be a great secondary benefit of utilizing Faithlife's servers for indexing for all internet-connected Logos devices, while preserving offline indexing as a backup for non-internet connected devices and personal book libraries.

That would boost the speed of Logos searches substantially.

The Desktop app will continue to use local indexing (except for a some specialised searches like Morph Query and Bible Browser, which also require a subscription). The web app is the choice for full online work.

Dave
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 2 2018 3:19 AM

Beloved:

Bruce Dunning:
searches we do within our libraries in Logos are based upon indexing of every word in our libraries. I'm not sure how that could happen for books that are not in our libraries. 

As Reuben indicates this Search would have to be executed on the FL server and with an internet connection. I think it could be done and FL would benefit from the latent promotion of its products.

Yes, it could be done. But I think that access to resources you don't own would come at a cost - probably a subscription service.

Dave
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Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 2 2018 4:21 AM

Dave Hooton:
But I think that access to resources you don't own would come at a cost - probably a subscription service.

Dave,

Personally, I think the boost in sales would pay for itself. But, I wouldn't mind if the cost of FLC-Essential were modestly increased to say $100.99 to me it would be worth it, especially as Ronald observes for journals. I could see paying extra for access to the journal volume or article. I don't know if this would involve an adjustment to existing licenses. I'm interested in hearing your opinion on whether or not this would boost the speed of searches on the desktop.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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Nick Highland | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 2 2018 6:27 AM

Dave Hooton:

The Desktop app will continue to use local indexing (except for a some specialised searches like Morph Query and Bible Browser, which also require a subscription). The web app is the choice for full online work.

I'm aware of how it works...  I'm simply taking note that if the resources already available (web app indexing) were interested into their desktop app, it would result in a faster, less resource intensive experience.  

Scheduled local indexing for night time hours is another option in this scenario, to preserve offline capabilities without the indexing slowdown while users are taking advantage of Internet-connected Logos server assisted web indexing.

I just find it to be an interesting idea.  Especially since the major components are already in place.

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Nick Highland | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 2 2018 8:56 AM

I posted the idea I outlined in this post here.

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Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 2 2018 2:37 PM

Nick:

I posted the idea I outlined in this post here.

Nick:

A frequent complaint about Logos is search speed.  The speed of the web app, which I presume utilizes indexing from Faithlife servers, is much faster.  

I would love to see offline local indexing become a backup feature, with the desktop software utilizing the much faster web indexing whenever the computer is internet-connected.  Personal books can rely on a separate offline index.

In addition, scheduled nightly indexing for offline use would keep Logos up to date in case of server crashes, internet outages, etc. without slowing the computer for indexing while it is in use.  When a new resource is purchased, it is immediately available in the online indexing, and ready by the next morning in the offline index. A command can be made available for immediate indexing.

If this would indeed result in a speedier Logos why not implement this apace. Is there any downside? Or is the claim real?

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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Beloved:

If this would indeed result in a speedier Logos why not implement this apace. Is there any downside? Or is the claim real?

Because network speed/quality and other conditions (using an SSD or not) can affect the search time, we've actually considered the possibility of running the search both locally and on the server, then using the results from whichever comes back first. It's certainly possible to implement. Not knowing the future, I can't predict when or if this will ever be implemented.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 2 2018 3:07 PM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
we've actually considered the possibility of running the search both locally and on the server, then using the results from whichever comes back first

If that ever becomes a feature, I hope it will have a Preferences option to (enable or) disable it. Thanks for keeping that in mind!

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Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 2 2018 3:37 PM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

Because network speed/quality and other conditions (using an SSD or not) can affect the search time, we've actually considered the possibility of running the search both locally and on the server, then using the results from whichever comes back first. It's certainly possible to implement.

Well, then Andrew there it is. Let's make it happen. What about my idea? Is it something FL would consider? I had another thought in the vein of paying for it. What if we replace the book previews with my idea and keep FLC-Essentials price the same and only charge extra for journal articles could that work?

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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