How to cite a Logos 7 word study

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David A Egolf | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Sep 18 2018 11:46 AM

I have a friend who is writing an academic article and needs to cite a Logos word study in his paper.  He is required to follow SBL style to cite any research.

He has done a word study for the word "ordinance" in the NT. The information that he discovered is useful for an article he is writing. However, he cannot figure out how to cite the word study itself.

He found instructions on how to do citations of word studies for Logos 4, but not Logos 7.

Any ideas?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 18 2018 12:24 PM

Why wouldn’t they be the same?

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Nicholas Dylewsky | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 18 2018 2:11 PM

hello! I am the person Who is trying to cite the word study. It is surely not the same or I would not be reaching out to David for help. The instructionsfor logos 4! Which are the only revelan instructions i have been able to find, are to export/print the word study. I have tried to do so and it does not provide a citation. There must be some type of resources that the word study is pulling its information so I am simply wondering how I can properly cite in an academic paper.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 18 2018 2:17 PM

Hi Nicholas - and welcome to the forums.

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/122207.aspx gives some guidance around this.

Are there particular sections you want to reference? They might have specific resources which can be cited.

Otherwise you are left with the generic quote as in Logos 4 - https://community.logos.com/forums/p/33241/249244.aspx#249244 

If you aren't getting that, it is probably related to a Program Setting

Graham 

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David A Egolf | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 18 2018 2:34 PM

I tried exporting to Microsoft Word after verifying that my settings were to produce an SBL citation which was also set to "Copy Citations" (whatever that means).  The only "citation" was in the footer:

"Page .  Exported from Logos Bible Software, 2:18 PM September 18, 2018."

This does not seem adequate.

I tried "Copy to clipboard", Rich Text Format, Text Document, Web Page (HTML), XPS Document, Send to Microsoft Word, Send to PowerPoint.  All of these gave the same result, as above.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 18 2018 2:35 PM

David A Egolf:

"Page .  Exported from Logos Bible Software, 2:18 PM September 18, 2018."

This does not seem adequate.

This is all that the Guide itself produces - I believe it was the same in Logos 4.

Hence my question about specific sections of interest that might be drawing from citable sources - such as lexicons, sense documentation etc

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 18 2018 6:11 PM

David A Egolf:
He is required to follow SBL style to cite any research.

His instructor should be willing and able to assist! 

I do not know SBL, but here is what I would suggest for my students, using Turabian: 

"'Ordinance' Word Study." Logos Bible Software, Version 7.17. Accessed September 18, 2018. Word Study. Keyword: Ordinance.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 18 2018 7:37 PM

Just a devil's advocate question but for the sections of a Word Guide that are resource dependent, what good is a reference as another user may get different results. It seems to me that the reference should be to the source of the data where the results are repeatable.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 18 2018 8:37 PM

MJ. Smith:
for the sections of a Word Guide that are resource dependent

If info is clearly from "source A," then you should cite "source A." However: In a "Bible Word Study," what is the resource? We can see that a certain word was translated four different ways in the ESV, but the "ESV" isn't the source. I assume that "Logos Bible Software" is the source. If not, there is even more of a reason for FL to incorporate citations in the tool. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 18 2018 9:05 PM

JT (alabama24):
We can see that a certain word was translated four different ways in the ESV, but the "ESV" isn't the source.

Why not? A ESV concordance would be how the reader would check the data ....

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 18 2018 9:32 PM

MJ. Smith:
Why not? A ESV concordance would be how the reader would check the data ....

But Martha... The student didn't use the ESV concordance, (s)he used the "word study" guide! Unless I am mistaken, that is the source of the information. Logos isn't pulling the data back from some print concordance... the info is coming from one of their own "data sets," right? If I am wrong, please do show me. However, if I am wrong, FL has not done an adequate job of informing the user where the data came from. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 18 2018 9:55 PM

My point is that the purpose of references is to allow the reader to find and verify the data/quote. A computer program that spits out results that are dependent upon what the user owns, is not a useful reference to the reader unless they have the same software and same resources. Given the error rate I find in Logos coding, I would never use a single tool that is dependent on Logos processing. I would approach the data from multiple angles and verify that they come to the same results - no single process to reference. It is, of course, appropriate to reference Logos resources and datasets. See https://community.logos.com/forums/p/148049/920003.aspx for how they are referenced.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 19 2018 4:09 AM

MJ. Smith:
My point is that the purpose of references is to allow the reader to find and verify the data/quote.

That is one very important reason, but it isn't the only one. Giving appropriate credit is another. Wink

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Fred Girdwood | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 19 2018 8:22 AM

Nicholas,

I always make my own footnotes for copying from Logos (versions 1.6 through 7.17). I have always wanted the Logos electronic book version (which causes and/or corrects data base differences) and the Logos search engine reference (the different search engines can also cause different results):

The Holy Bible: New International Version. ©1984. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan. Electronic editions (2018-06-20T01:46:22Z & 2018-06-20T01:32:24Z & 2018-06-20T01:32:24Z) via Logos Bible Software 7.17 (7.17.0.0020) ©2000-2018.

sincerely, Biblefred

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Fred Girdwood | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 19 2018 8:25 AM

have not suggested this to the right Faithlife persons to get it done for all copy and paste. build your own footnote for your Bible Word study copy/paste

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Al Het | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 20 2018 10:06 AM

MJ. Smith:
A computer program that spits out results that are dependent upon what the user owns, is not a useful reference to the reader unless they have the same software and same resources.

This is a great point, and something I never really thought through, when it comes to modern scholarship and the use of modern Bible software.  When I read, I assume I will be able to independently verify any reference I come across (and potentially further study the topic). This is the value of references for me, the reader.  Alabama's response is absolutely correct though, that giving credit is the other major purpose for noting a reference.  However, if the reference correctly credits the Bible software used, but keeps the reader from being able to verify or further study the topic, it has no value to the reader. 

So, the question becomes how much "credit" should a reference tool like Bible software get?  When it was just a search tool, the answer was easier.  However, as additional tools start taking more specified effort by Logos employees, focusing on specific points or ideas, I can see the argument getting more muddy. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 20 2018 2:21 PM

How much credit did Graduate student research assistants get for their hours in the library? Logos is just another Graduate student.Wink

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Nicholas Dylewsky | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 23 2018 5:50 PM

Thank you for all of your responses. I am going to go ahead and use this suggestion as SBL is derived from Turabian and from what I can tell the Citations are identical. Thank you all so very much!

""'Ordinance' Word Study." Logos Bible Software, Version 7.17. Accessed September 18, 2018. Word Study. Keyword: Ordinance."

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