Historical Reliability of the gospels and John

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This post has 54 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 2675
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2018 3:47 AM

Michael S.:

Yep and a great survey book but the focus is different. It's description: "Blomberg calls this a “one-stop shopping” textbook because it is designed to cover a diverse range of subjects often neglected or abridged in other texts. He concentrates on the intertestamental period, critical methodology and authorship, historical placement with external evidence for the gospel’s reliability, a survey on Christ’s life, teachings and actions, and a synthesis of the major issues surrounding the historicity and theology of Jesus."

Whereas the one in this post has a different focus: "Offering a calm, balanced overview of the history of Gospel criticism, especially that of the late twentieth century, Blomberg introduces readers to the methods employed by New Testament scholars and shows both the values and limits of those methods. He then delves more deeply into the question of miracles, Synoptic discrepancies and the differences between the Synoptics and John. After an assessment of noncanonical Jesus tradition, he addresses issues of historical method directly."

I do like his survey book though so I'd recommend that to anyone interested

Posts 2675
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2018 3:50 AM

I should also add this is a bundle and has the book on John which is the more important Of the two for me :)

Throughout much of the twentieth century the Fourth Gospel took a back seat to the Synoptics when it came to historical reliability. Consequently, the contemporary quest of the historical Jesus discounted or excluded evidence from the Fourth Gospel.

The question of the historical reliability of John’s Gospel is well overdue for a thorough reinvestigation and reassessment. In this foundational study, Craig L. Blomberg sheds new light on persistent questions. He presents his conclusions largely in commentary form, following the principal scenes of the Gospel. His introduction frames the pathway into the discussion, taking up critical issues such as

  • authorship, date and provenance of the Fourth Gospel
  • sources and omissions of the Fourth Gospel
  • points where John’s Gospel interlocks with the Synoptics
  • general indications of historicity
  • literary genre and unique audience of this Gospel
  • burden of proof and criteria of authenticity

In his commentary examining the text of the Fourth Gospel, Blomberg asks two essential questions. First, using the recently nuanced criteria of authenticity, “What positive evidence do we have that the actions or words of the characters in John’s narratives are indeed historical?” Second, “Is there anything in the text... that is implausible within the historical context to which it is attributed, particularly if we assume the general historical trustworthiness of the Synoptics?”

The result is a seminal work for the present day—one that affirms the historical reliability of John’s Gospel with intelligence and sure-footed care.

Posts 560
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2018 6:39 AM

 Mattillo, great job with addressing the three resources.  It was very helpful in seeing the summaries and the contrasts.

Posts 5737
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2018 8:04 AM

Even though I said I would skip it, I did place my order just in case. I wish we had more sample pages 👍😁👌

DAL

Posts 2675
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 15 2018 8:08 AM

DAL:

Even though I said I would skip it, I did place my order just in case. I wish we had more sample pages 👍😁👌

DAL

Thanks DAL!!!

Posts 2675
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2018 8:45 AM

This book just went live in FL ebooks for whoever wants a taste of what Blomberg has to offer on the subject. I'm not sure how this would compare to the books listed in this thread but I'd guess it is a condensed version of the two. 

https://ebooks.faithlife.com/products/168053/the-historical-reliability-of-the-new-testament-countering-the-challenges-to-evangelical-christian-beliefs 

PS please keep your preorders in for me just in case you decide that this book is sufficient so we can get the main ones into production. You can cancel before it ships if needed :) 

Posts 2675
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2018 9:08 AM

From what I can gather from the introduction, it is indeed a condensed version of the first two books with additional coverage of the rest of the New testament later... In short, a taste. I'll paste the interesting portions from the intro though forgive the format as it is from an ebook and my ipad

Posts 2675
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 1 2018 9:15 AM

Introduction

The reliability of the Bible continues to be a topic of great interest to many people. For more than two centuries, modern biblical critics have pored over almost every corner of the Scriptures in minute detail. Up through the late 1960s, a general trajectory of increasing skepticism could be traced. Since then the tide has been turning. Although the novel and avant-garde almost by definition are what receive the most attention in the media and interest on the Internet, the amount of solid scholarship that has been produced in the last forty-five years internationally that supports the historical trustworthiness of this or that portion of the Bible has grown exponentially. While we continue to need patient, painstaking analysis of key issues at the highest levels of scholarship, we need even more good, up-to-date overviews, conversant with a broad cross-section of this research, which can be understood by a wider audience. I hope to fill this niche.

Quite a few books today do a good job canvassing the evidence for the historical reliability of the New Testament Gospels, the canonical accounts of the life of Jesus. Some of these are detailed and technical,[4] others mid-range, and still others introductory. Readers who want a special focus on just the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) or on just the Gospel of John can choose from a variety of offerings that concentrate on those portions of the New Testament alone. The Acts of the Apostles is not as well served at the introductory or popular levels but has outstanding detailed studies corroborating or rendering plausible a huge swath of its material. There is also a small cottage industry of studies in the historical issues raised by the Epistles, especially the letters of Paul, both in terms of questions of authorship and in terms of fitting their information together with the data of Acts.[10]

When one looks, however, for a reasonably detailed treatment of the historical issues surrounding the entire New Testament, almost nothing emerges. One can find good volumes on the transmission of the text, the process of canonization,[12] and the identification and significance of the genres of the New Testament narratives. There are even excellent treatments of the problem of miracles.[14] But no current works gather all these topics together under one cover, except for various New Testament introductions that by necessity supply only cursory treatments of each topic because of everything else they must cover as well.

This work tries to fill that gap. Fourteen detailed chapters subdivide into six major parts, discussing in turn the Synoptics, the Gospel of John, Acts and Paul, the remaining New Testament books, issues of canonicity and transmission of the text, and the unique problem of miracles. We look at issues of the formation of the literature, external corroboration of its contents, apparent internal contradictions, as well as points of commonality from Paul to Acts. We assess the so-called Gnostic Gospels (and other Gnostic literature) and the New Testament Apocrypha. We discuss the transmission of the text and the canonization of the books. And we do all this in enough detail to make each survey much more than superficial, yet without the technical language that makes these topics beyond the reach of many readers and without creating an encyclopedic-sized work that would make it accessible only to experts.

Because I have previously written several books that impinge on this topic, it is important for me to explain how this one differs from those. In The Historical Reliability of the Gospels, I focused primarily on the Synoptic Gospels, addressing six major topics surrounding the formation and contents of their narratives. Only one additional chapter looked primarily at the Gospel of John. In Jesus and the Gospels: An Introduction and Survey,[16] I was creating a textbook designed to cover the waterfront of issues theological students typically address in courses on the Gospels or the life of Christ, so that every topic received only brief treatment. Issues of historicity were largely limited to short sections of a paragraph or two at the end of each main section within the specific chapters that surveyed the life of Christ and to one entire chapter that summarized the main line of evidence overall. The Historical Reliability of John’s Gospel: Issues and Commentary gave me an opportunity to proceed in far more detail, passage by passage through the Fourth Gospel in commentary format, while focusing exclusively on issues that bear on the question of historical trustworthiness. Finally, in Can We Still Believe the Bible? An Evangelical Engagement with Contemporary Questions,[18] I focused on six specific topics that span both Testaments about which a lot of skepticism had recently been expressed, even though the majority of scholarly developments in each area over the past generation had actually increased many scholars’ confidence in the reliability of the Christian Scriptures.

This present work, The Historical Reliability of the New Testament, gathers most of the major threads of these works together, in a completely new topical arrangement, but also moves on to numerous additional issues that the scope of my previous works prevented me from addressing at all. While not nearly as erudite or prodigious as Kenneth A. Kitchen’s magnificent On the Reliability of the Old Testament, it does share with Kitchen’s tome a desire to cover the major concerns spanning an entire Testament of the Bible with plentiful footnotes to just about every topic raised, in order to enable interested readers to dig more deeply wherever they might wish to do so.

..... There is more to the intro but it covers different stuff. I also deleted a few footnote numbers as they made weird symbols in this thread

Posts 1239
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2018 6:36 AM

Paul Caneparo:
Hmmm.  I already have The Historical Reliability of the Gospels Second Edition, which is one of the two books in this set and currently priced at $32.99 on it's own.  Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that dynamic pricing comes into play for a set like this when it's in Pre-Pub, so that will have me paying the full Pre-Pub price of $24.99 for just the book on John.

That leaves me thinking I should maybe skip the Pre-Pub offer and see if my dynamic price on the set would be lower after it's out of Pre-Pub.

Posts 2675
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2018 8:10 AM

I have never seen the historical Reliability in logos before so maybe it was in there at some point and left?

Posts 2675
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2018 8:14 AM

Rick Ausdahl:

Paul Caneparo:
Hmmm.  I already have The Historical Reliability of the Gospels Second Edition, which is one of the two books in this set and currently priced at $32.99 on it's own.  Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that dynamic pricing comes into play for a set like this when it's in Pre-Pub, so that will have me paying the full Pre-Pub price of $24.99 for just the book on John.

That leaves me thinking I should maybe skip the Pre-Pub offer and see if my dynamic price on the set would be lower after it's out of Pre-Pub.

On a side note, the books you put in your quote are his survey books and not the same as the ones in the original post which deals exclusively with historical Reliability

Posts 1239
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 2 2018 8:19 PM

Mattillo:

Rick Ausdahl:

Paul Caneparo:
Hmmm.  I already have The Historical Reliability of the Gospels Second Edition, which is one of the two books in this set and currently priced at $32.99 on it's own.  Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that dynamic pricing comes into play for a set like this when it's in Pre-Pub, so that will have me paying the full Pre-Pub price of $24.99 for just the book on John.

That leaves me thinking I should maybe skip the Pre-Pub offer and see if my dynamic price on the set would be lower after it's out of Pre-Pub.

On a side note, the books you put in your quote are his survey books and not the same as the ones in the original post which deals exclusively with historical Reliability

Ooops!  My bad.  Thanks for noting the mistake Mattillo.  

Posts 877
David Carter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 13 2018 5:07 PM

And thanks to your efforts, it is now under development Yes

Posts 2675
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 13 2018 5:22 PM

I didn't notice that! Excellent. Thank you to everyone who contributed

Posts 338

I'm in. 

Hopefully will not be long before we get the set.  Now without wanting to polemicize nor violate guidelines, the whole bit about reliability of the Bible is easy from a Charismatic point of view.

When Apostles started to manifest the same power that was present in Jesus that operated in the supernatural after the resurrection, the authorities knew that indeed Jesus must have been back around.

Jesus bears witness to His word, He is the living Word:

Acts 14:3 So they remained for a long time, speaking boldly for the Lord, who bore witness to the word of his grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands.

When the higher gifts of the Holy Spirit are manifested, people know for sure that God is indeed among the believers:

1 Corinthians 14:25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you. 

Textual criticism, Biblical studies, etc. are all fine, but we must not forget:

1 Corinthians 2:5 that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. 

1 Corinthians 4:20  For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power.

Not logia, but power... Amen

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