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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 11:01 AM

Bob Pritchett:
The irony is, I setup UserVoice as an experiment in listening. I didn't intend to answer/close anything, (didn't want to influence/color the voting), but was pressured into responding by people on the newsgroups and inside Logos. I guess it was a successful experiment. :-) Now it seems like an important part of our feedback loop, when it started as a late night "try our free UserVoice feature!" experiment.

To Bob Pritchett:
I think uservoice is a great idea that benefits users & Logos alike. I don't have any expectations of being empowered to steer the company (as some de facto share holder) whichever direction my whims take me. Thank you for uservoice and please keep reading our input.

To everybody else:
I  am sometimes amazed at how an individual user can make demands on the company when "100 votes"  on uservoice is only one raindrop in the 100,000's of Logos users who have not expressed support for an issue. I liken it to Bob Pritchett giving me a ride in his Lamborghini and I have the nerve to change his radio station without asking. It is not reasonable to demand Caterpillar corporation to sell mopeds just because their yellow paint scheme would look cool on one.

The need to reproduce a corporate environment to run Bible software borders on looney. I should know because I've run Logos on two 36" monitors on my PictureTel video conferencing setup from my GM days. It's really cool but very unnecessary.

There are mega corporations that do use distributed systems. GM has been with CISCO long before their EDS acquisition. Amazon has billions of dollars at risk "in the cloud."  Those corporations that abhor cloud based computing aren't trying to synch notes, prayer lists and sermon preparation. They have data that really is more sensitive. I know each of us thinks our data is the most important in the world but in reality, hardly anybody else cares to snoop it.  Unless, .....

What are you people actually preaching and praying about that needs so much secrecy?

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 11:10 AM

Jim Towler:
At present, we have no backup, no control and no export.

 

I'd offer you dropbox but it's in "the cloud."

There is an old fashioned thing we called RAID that you can run without internet , clouds or PictureTel steups.. Wink It even has selective file backup options.

With biometric security, even your wife can't access your notes. You can pick up a fingerprint scanner as low as $15 now.

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JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 11:21 AM

Matthew C Jones:

I'd offer you dropbox but it's in "the cloud."

There is an old fashioned thing we called RAID that you can run without internet , clouds or PictureTel steups.. Wink It even has selective file backup options.

With biometric security, even your wife can't access your notes. You can pick up a fingerprint scanner as low as $15 now.

I have no idea what this post is about, or what you are saying to me.

RAID is not a backup to protect from a deleted Collection rule. Nor is sync to cloud. A fingerprint reader wont let me export or backup my Logos user-content.

Posts 82
James Ng | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 12:01 PM

What demands are people making? I'm saying it was closed where it doesn't make sense asking for an explanation and suggesting it could have been better handled doesn't seem outrageous to me. Are you suggesting that I'm not allowed to vote either or disagree?

Your argument of "only" 100 votes is silly because its been closed, no one knows how many votes it would have gotten since its been shutdown and even if it got 100,000 votes it still doesn't mean Logos would do anything about it.

Either uservoice is a valid voting mechanism that says its representative of the users or it isn't. Simple question for Logos. Is it or isn't it? If it is, then let it run. If it isn't, then I don't see the point of it. You can't have it both ways.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 12:03 PM

Jim Towler:
I have no idea what this post is about, or what you are saying to me.

The original post is protesting Bob Pritchett's handling of a uservoice item "for a privacy feature." Susequent posts in this thread addressed turning off synchronization. (Hence, my joke about Dropbox as an option to replace Logos 4 cloud sync.)
Biometric scanners are a viable barrier to enhance security. They would have to cut off your finger to get past that one. (Hence, my suggestion for a fingerprint scanner.)
You already have a couple programs allowing incremental backup & restore. If you develop a thoughtful backup routine you can use the tools you have to accomplish your stated goals.
When I was in Michigan the file security protocol for Saginaw General Hospital was (aside from RAID) 2 daily backups. One copy was locked in the fireproof safe on location. The second backup was removed from the premises. No backups were destroyed for at least a week. If files were deleted or corrupted, we had ample notice and restored them.
I don't know how much time you spend generating new data in Logos or why your system is vulnerable to frequent data loss but Logos 3 still exceeds all your needs without the vulnerabilities.

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 12:14 PM

Jim Towler:
If I want to restore a note I deleted 12 days ago, I can only return the whole installation back to that date. I can't keep all my other changes since then.

Isn't this true of most database applications? Mind you, I do have my own work around on this - the same I have on other database app's. Back up the database and use a test harness or browser to extract my data and reinsert the "lost" data. Mind you, this is a big enough hassle that I need to be very motivated to recover the data.

I thoroughly agree that an export/import function is needed and am anxiously awaiting this promised feature. But given that this is a database app, how do you expect individual backups to work?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 12:37 PM

WOW - So many different ideas ...

My "... I have no idea ... " comment was in regard to dropbox - which I have never heard of. And that RAID is not about backups. Nor is fingerprint readers.

My earlier main reply was to a specific point by Bob. And I offered how simple I think selective sync could be.

My later point was to a question Joe asked about being able to do a complete backup. Yes - but its all or nothing.

And yes - I understand the original point by Russ. Wanting to leave the question open. Clearly these matters are important to some of the users of Logos software.

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 12:44 PM

James Ng:
What demands are people making? I'm saying it was closed where it doesn't make sense asking for an explanation and suggesting it could have been better handled doesn't seem outrageous to me. Are you suggesting that I'm not allowed to vote either or disagree?

No. Vote as you please and disagree or not as you wish. Just don't expect the dissolution of uservoice because the creator doesn't wish to deliver what  we clamor for. If I were going to tell Bob Pritchett what to do, I would have preferred he leave the item on uservoice as one more barometer of people's sentiments. But I certainly would not demand he terminate uservoice because he had "closed" further discussion of one issue.

My father-in-law was a nationally known artist. He painted a massive oil of an eagle that many expressed interest in purchasing. Each time an inquiry was made, he raised the price to discourage it's sale. Finally he listed it "NFS" (not-for-sale) to escape determined buyers. My wife inherited the painting on his passing. I look at Bob's closure of the uservoice item as tagging it "NFS" -- meaning this has been addressed and will not be implemented so move your focus to viable items.

This certainly does little for those who are determined to ask for what can not be granted. Bob could just hold that carrot out on a long stick and see how long we march towards it. His current response gives me hope that the other issues raised in uservoice actually do have some measure of viability. After all, Bob didn't close them.

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 12:53 PM

Jim Towler:

Yes - I can backup my entire PC, and I have two different packages installed that give me levels of full or selective backups. I can also run command-line or scripted copies of entire directory trees. Thats not the problem.

The real issue is that I don't have control over, and hence don't own my user data.

Hi, I recognize there are other larger issues and like I said I was not trying to diminish those.  I was just more curious if you had something that would create a backup of the specific files and it seems like that is possible on the PC side.  

Thanks

Joe

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 1:04 PM

MJ. Smith:
Back up the database and use a test harness or browser to extract my data and reinsert the "lost" data.

Frequent backups are the easiest way to prevent data loss. But heroic efforts to salvage data have been successful even on a spindled, punctured floppy disk. Raw data recovery is not that difficult. But frequent backups is so simple it is unprofessional not to use them.

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 6:39 PM

James Ng:

Option #1

Privacy feature on Uservoice. It gets 100+ votes. Logos marks it complete and puts a comment, turn off internet use and get dvds. We'll skip the fact that that solution doesn't seem to work for some people per the other thread but it wasn't hitting the mark on what was requested.

The silly irony here is that I didn't mean to "shut the idea down." As I mentioned, my plan is to just watch UserVoice, and I never intended to use it as a way to hear from Logos. User pressure, and internal pressure, forced me to start responding/commenting. In this particular case, someone inside Logos was annoyed by how many "unresolved" suggestions where sitting there, and emailed me a list of proposed comments/status changes. Which I just whipped through one night. I didn't realize I was ending your ability to vote on this, so I've now re-opened it and set it to "under review".

:-)

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James Ng | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 7:09 PM

Bob Pritchett:

James Ng:

Option #1

Privacy feature on Uservoice. It gets 100+ votes. Logos marks it complete and puts a comment, turn off internet use and get dvds. We'll skip the fact that that solution doesn't seem to work for some people per the other thread but it wasn't hitting the mark on what was requested.

The silly irony here is that I didn't mean to "shut the idea down." As I mentioned, my plan is to just watch UserVoice, and I never intended to use it as a way to hear from Logos. User pressure, and internal pressure, forced me to start responding/commenting. In this particular case, someone inside Logos was annoyed by how many "unresolved" suggestions where sitting there, and emailed me a list of proposed comments/status changes. Which I just whipped through one night. I didn't realize I was ending your ability to vote on this, so I've now re-opened it and set it to "under review".

:-)

Thank you very much. I can't ask for more than that. The offer to talk over the phone on this subject or any other customer subject is always open Beer

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Russ White | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2010 7:29 PM

Thank you, Bob!

:-)

Russ

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JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 22 2010 2:19 AM

Bob Pritchett:
... my plan is to just watch UserVoice ... so I've now re-opened it and set it to "under review".

Thankyou Bob.

 

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Randall Hartman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 22 2010 3:14 AM

This thread illustrates how unique Logos is in the business world.  They really do listen.  They really do care.  What other company would put up with all the complaining and then respond so graciously?  The patient responses of Bob reminds me of how many pastors are constantly criticized and maligned for their failure to make everyone happy. (Correction: criticized and maligned for not making the complainer happy!)

I suggest Logos make a "I Like Bob" bumper sticker with the Logos logo on it.  Bob: seriously, thanks for being the man!

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Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 22 2010 4:22 AM

Garrett Mercury:

This thread illustrates how unique Logos is in the business world.  They really do listen.  They really do care.  What other company would put up with all the complaining and then respond so graciously?  The patient responses of Bob reminds me of how many pastors are constantly criticized and maligned for their failure to make everyone happy. (Correction: criticized and maligned for not making the complainer happy!)

I suggest Logos make a "I Like Bob" bumper sticker with the Logos logo on it.  Bob: seriously, thanks for being the man!

Agreed X 10

 

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

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Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 22 2010 5:00 PM

Garrett Mercury:

This thread illustrates how unique Logos is in the business world.  They really do listen.  They really do care.  What other company would put up with all the complaining and then respond so graciously?  The patient responses of Bob reminds me of how many pastors are constantly criticized and maligned for their failure to make everyone happy. (Correction: criticized and maligned for not making the complainer happy!)

I suggest Logos make a "I Like Bob" bumper sticker with the Logos logo on it.  Bob: seriously, thanks for being the man!

Agreed!

Yes

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Otto S. Carroll | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 23 2010 11:15 AM

Garrett Mercury:

This thread illustrates how unique Logos is in the business world.  They really do listen.  They really do care.  What other company would put up with all the complaining and then respond so graciously?  The patient responses of Bob reminds me of how many pastors are constantly criticized and maligned for their failure to make everyone happy. (Correction: criticized and maligned for not making the complainer happy!)

I suggest Logos make a "I Like Bob" bumper sticker with the Logos logo on it.  Bob: seriously, thanks for being the man!

YesBeer

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15" rMBP 2.6 GHz i7 | 16 GB RAM | 1.0 TB Flash Drive | OS X 10.12.3 | Logos 7.0 (7.3.0.0062)

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