Logos Search by Hebrew Numerical Value instead of Words and Phrases

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Posts 59
Renan | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Oct 23 2018 8:18 AM

Dear Brothers, 

As a student of Biblical Hebrew, I need to do a lot of research using the numeric value of expressions and words and i would like to know if i could use logos to facilitate this task that so far is made by hand. For example, the word ישוע (Yeshua/Jesus) has a numerical value of 386 which corresponds to the sum of the individual value of each one of the four hebrew letters (30+300+6+70), my question is how do i search for another words or phrases in the hebrew bible that share the same numerical value (386) ? 

Here's a video demonstrating what i use to do by hand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFFt643QLZM

Thanks in advance,

Renan

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 10:35 PM

Logos is about matching words/phrases, so you would be much better using a gematria calculator.

Dave
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Posts 434
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 11:07 PM

See also https://community.logos.com/forums/t/173515.aspx whre there is a conversation about a "Numeric Calculator" within the Logos Software. Keep well Paul  

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 23 2018 11:21 PM

The Numeric Converter is very basic - it won't search!

Dave
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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 24 2018 3:09 AM

There's a Gematria Bible Search here:

https://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Database.php 

EDIT: But do take note that the creator of this site has debunked his own research: https://www.biblewheel.com/Blog/debunking-myself-what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been/ 

Posts 59
Renan | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 24 2018 8:11 AM

I know that there is third part solutions for this kind of research but i'm looking for an alternative to do this kind of thing using logos search engine so i can do my usual exegetic research and look for this kind of correlations at the same time. I can buy the entire gematria correlation database in CSV format (https://www.gematrix.org/gematria_database.php) but the question is how do i import this kind of data into logos to use in a meaningful way with other logos exegetic tools.

Thank you,

 

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 24 2018 3:55 PM

Renan:
I can buy the entire gematria correlation database in CSV format (https://www.gematrix.org/gematria_database.php) but the question is how do i import this kind of data into logos to use in a meaningful way with other logos exegetic tools.

You can't. Logos works with words and phrases - but mainly lemmas/lexemes. For example, a Word List (Documents menu) will only work with lemmas; not manuscript words,  and a Bible Word Study (Guides menu) only works with lemmas.

The only possibility I see is to build a Personal Book with the words that correspond to all possible numerical values:-

[Headword] 386

word1, word2, word3...

[Headword] 396

word21, word 22, word 23...

A word Search would show what numerical value(s) it corresponds to  --- results listed by article/headword. Then you could search for Headwords to find the corresponding words. You can also search Hebrew bibles for occurrences of those words. This is a rough description, and may not suit your purpose.

Dave
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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 24 2018 4:03 PM

Rosie Perera:
EDIT: But do take note that the creator of this site has debunked his own research: https://www.biblewheel.com/Blog/debunking-myself-what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been/

I would say that he fell in love with the Bible Wheel, and never knew God/Jesus.

Dave
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Posts 1025
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 24 2018 4:32 PM

Dave Hooton:

Rosie Perera:
EDIT: But do take note that the creator of this site has debunked his own research: https://www.biblewheel.com/Blog/debunking-myself-what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been/

I would say that he fell in love with the Bible Wheel, and never knew God/Jesus.

This seems to me to be one of the primary dangers of reading the Bible through some of these very artificial constructs. First, it gets in the way of our focusing on the message that's truly there.  Then, when something breaks the spell, so to speak, we can lose all confidence the Bible that we've so obviously misunderstood.

Posts 59
Renan | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 24 2018 4:48 PM

It is a good idea but seems like it gonna take a lot of time to build a book using all the content of the CSV database doing it manually. Maybe logos developer staff could help with some tool to automatize this process similarly as we do with macros in Ms word. 

Posts 59
Renan | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 24 2018 5:01 PM

Honestly, I'm a engineer with a strong mathematical background and I don't think that I'm dealing with very artificial constructs, quite the contrary, the evidence is so strong that it led me to choose Hebrew as an option discipline. Prof. Haim Shore made his book available for free on his blog (link below) and I would like to do more of this kind of Bible research, that's why I'm looking for help with logos search tools.

https://haimshore.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/haim-shore_coincidences-in-the-bible-and-in-biblical-hebrew_feb-2014.pdf

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 24 2018 8:08 PM

Renan:
Maybe logos developer staff could help with some tool to automatize this process similarly as we do with macros in Ms word. 

MS Word (*.docx) is the source document for a Personal Book. I'm sure you can import CSV to Word (via Excel?), or build your own macro with help from the web.

Dave
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Posts 59
Renan | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 24 2018 8:11 PM

It's a good idea and I will try to do this asap. Thank you Dave.

Posts 1025
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 25 2018 10:54 AM

Renan:

Honestly, I'm a engineer with a strong mathematical background and I don't think that I'm dealing with very artificial constructs, quite the contrary, the evidence is so strong that it led me to choose Hebrew as an option discipline. Prof. Haim Shore made his book available for free on his blog (link below) and I would like to do more of this kind of Bible research, that's why I'm looking for help with logos search tools.

https://haimshore.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/haim-shore_coincidences-in-the-bible-and-in-biblical-hebrew_feb-2014.pdf

Please don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to criticize you or anyone else.  I get the appeal of this type of analysis.  My degree is in mathematics and I'm an actuary by training, so I completely understand the beauty that can be found in numbers.  My one bit of advice for all of us, though, is that we not let our search for hidden meanings in Scripture cause us to lose sight of the plain meaning of God's word.  After all, in the beginning was the logos, not the arithmos.

Posts 59
Renan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 25 2018 1:09 PM

I got your point but those same letters are also numbers cuz there is no distinction in Hebrew since we right the numbers using the letters (just take a look at a Jewish wall clock or stuff life that). 

In the book of Ivrim (Hebrews), chapter 11, verse 3, it says that the worlds were framed by the word of HaShem. When you read Bereshit (Genesis) chapter one, you see ’Elohiym saying, "Let there be light and there was light." ’Elohiym said, "Let there be stars in the firmament" and "Let there be beasts in the field, and fowl in the air." He did this simply by speaking. Some may think of this only as poetic, but the Hebrew people have historically had solemn reverence and awe for the actual building blocks of life which they believe are the individual letters; that ’Elohiym did create the world with the alephbet and so He did it using the numbers that they represent. Also that's the reason why the Jewish scribes that right down copied of the Sefer Torah are called סופר (sofer) an word that came from the root "to count".

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EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 26 2018 8:56 AM

My point is that the letters form words and sentences and commands and prophecies and poems and historical stories.  That's where the primary meaning of Scripture lies.  Most traditional Jewish teaching about the Hebrew scriptures is not actually in the form of gematria.  Sure, there's some of that - but it's not the bulk of Jewish thinking on Scripture. 

I believe there was a reason that John started his gospel by saying "In the beginning was the Word." Not the number, not the letter - the word.

I've said my peace, and I'll let it go now.  The last thing I want to do is discourage you in your studies.  But as you study, please do give as much attention to the words as you do to the letters and their numerical equivalents.

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